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Xanbatou
United States805 Posts
On October 20 2012 04:11 JDub wrote: Actually, it is in the OP: It is in a spoiler near the bottom, but it's there :p Derp. I even looked in that section. I don't know how I missed it T.T | ||
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Hancho
Germany89 Posts
![[image loading]](https://raw.github.com/Hancho2009/TheCoreConverter/master/Images/LL%20Fingers.gif) ![[image loading]](https://raw.github.com/Hancho2009/TheCoreConverter/master/Images/LM%20Fingers.gif) ![[image loading]](https://raw.github.com/Hancho2009/TheCoreConverter/master/Images/LS%20Fingers.gif) ![[image loading]](https://raw.github.com/Hancho2009/TheCoreConverter/master/Images/RL%20Fingers.gif) ![[image loading]](https://raw.github.com/Hancho2009/TheCoreConverter/master/Images/RM%20Fingers.gif) ![[image loading]](https://raw.github.com/Hancho2009/TheCoreConverter/master/Images/RS%20Fingers.gif) | ||
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JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
 Email me those files: thejakatak@gmail.com | ||
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Mar_1910
Poland22 Posts
I am low diamond Terran and I want to improve with that layout to go to master in few months. I was using medium T layout JIOP, yesterday switched to large HUIO. Before I used standard, and try about 20games with DarkGrid and around 30games with Chamelon. Problems with theCore: 1. my pinky(litte finger) hurst with pressing so many J and maybe becouse of point 2. 2. I think that scv should be on J, i got confused with I for my barracks and O for CC what to press J for marines and U for SCV I press IO and building marines and after switch to CommandC i have to switch for U. I gos stucked with mule call down, and need to press cancel. In that state i dont care about attack from Planetary Fortress, so maybe i will change it. 3. Becouse of point 2 i got somethimes lost during middle game and I dont know what to hit. 50games is still some to dont have that problem. Will see after more games 4. I changed the chat from ' to enter, somethimes with HUIO i press for chat when I want to build reactor 5. Still some problems with using extra control groups, but I will need another 50games, and I am playing mostly against AI. 6. I cant easily chat in games, the keyboard with angle makes me hard to type. So i need to learn how to quickly say glhf, and gg 7. I changed "center to current location" to unbind. Really confusing thing for Terran player. 8. During middle game some problems with adding control groups, happens alot that I am adding Barracks to CC, and vice versa. This is still someting to practice. 9. No logical names for keys, When I press "I" i dont have name for "barracks", when I press O i think about orbital. When I press P i think Port (on P i have Factory and StartPort). What have improved: 1. I won with some master protoss in custom game But it was still practice so I dont get this seriously2. I have improved my APM for about 10, still have average in replayes aroud 80. Want to hit 100 with no erros, no spams. 3. I have better army control, better army adding, and I am doing this faster 4. Using cameras at least 4 cameras, stared to using 6. 5. Better supply control becouse of easy pressing ' -> h 6. Better macro. I really like TheCore, thanks for it! | ||
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Antylamon
United States1981 Posts
On October 21 2012 19:29 Mar_1910 wrote: Problems with theCore: 1. my pinky(litte finger) hurst with pressing so many J and maybe becouse of point 2. This is just an adjustment to theCore. You'll get used to it like everyone else did. 2. I think that scv should be on J, i got confused with I for my barracks and O for CC what to press J for marines and U for SCV I press IO and building marines and after switch to CommandC i have to switch for U. I gos stucked with mule call down, and need to press cancel. In that state i dont care about attack from Planetary Fortress, so maybe i will change it. That's the thing. You CAN'T change attack on just PF. You have to change it on everything. Would you rather attack be on the ring finger, or only SCVs on the ring finger? 3. Becouse of point 2 i got somethimes lost during middle game and I dont know what to hit. 50games is still some to dont have that problem. Will see after more games What do you mean, you "don't know what to hit?" Again, it can't really be helped that SCV is on I/U. It's impossible to change PF attack to something that isn't J/H without changing all attacks. 4. I changed the chat from ' to enter, somethimes with HUIO i press for chat when I want to build reactor Huh? HUIO changed chat from Enter to Apostrophe because it makes chat somewhat accessible, while still having it be on a terrible key which wouldn't be used otherwise. Feel free to clarify, because I can't quite understand what you're talking about with Reactors. 5. Still some problems with using extra control groups, but I will need another 50games, and I am playing mostly against AI. Yeah, you answered your own question here. Also, you don't have to use the control groups for their suggested purpose, btw. I usually use ; (L on HUIO) for army instead of for spellcasters. 6. I cant easily chat in games, the keyboard with angle makes me hard to type. So i need to learn how to quickly say glhf, and gg This isn't a layout to make it easier to type.  It's another adjustment, a hard one too, but I got used to it, and I haven't heard many complaints about it recently. 7. I changed "center to current location" to unbind. Really confusing thing for Terran player. Personal preference. Although it is still useful for Terrans. Dropping MULES is a lot easier when you only need muscle memory in order to drop MULES. Otherwise, the mineral patches are in inconsistent locations relative to the camera. Again, it's just a personal preference, and I agree that Terran benefits the least from CCs being centered, but there isn't a complete lack of benefit. 8. During middle game some problems with adding control groups, happens alot that I am adding Barracks to CC, and vice versa. This is still someting to practice. Yep! Practice makes perfect! 9. No logical names for keys, When I press "I" i dont have name for "barracks", when I press O i think about orbital. When I press P i think Port (on P i have Factory and StartPort). That's because of using standard hotkeys for so long. On theCore, the most-used commands are on the pinky. This is because the pinky is the most dextrous finger between the pinky and the ring finger. The index and middle fingers are used for control groups instead. Let me enlighten you on the decision to make the layout this way: At one point, there was a decision to be made. Either have the index and middle fingers press the most-used control groups, or the most-used commands. It's not very efficient to have the base keys as only commands or only control groups, because it would miss out on so many epic combinations. (index-ring for SCVs, index-pinky for MULEs, middle-pinky for Marines, etc.) I don't know the specifics, but the decision is clear based on what we have today. | ||
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JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
This will also affect the build probe key (we made a compromise before so that protoss players could offrace as terran without big complications.) The build probe key will be the same (home key for pinky finger). This along with other optimizations we will be able to make due to editing the text file instead of using the in game hotkey editor will be out asap (which is likely to take a decent amount of time due to all of the new considerations we now have to make). Thank you as always for your continued testing and patience. | ||
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Crosswind
United States279 Posts
On October 13 2012 07:24 Crosswind wrote: Protoss PRM Warp Prism has drop (a single unit) bound to D. That seems like a mistake. =) -Cross (Feeeels like, by our logic, it should be M) Hey - is there actually a simpler way to drop than using the key? Or is this a bug? Wanted to flag it, in case folks were not aware. -Cross | ||
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poeticEnnui
United States78 Posts
Keep up the awesome work, JaK! | ||
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Hancho
Germany89 Posts
On October 22 2012 03:26 JaKaTaK wrote: We will likely be binding the "build SCV" command to the home key for the pinky finger with the next update. We can do this by editing the text file. The issue is, if you try to change a hotkey in game, it (and possibly other things) will become unbound. (you can still target fire with the planetary fortress by right clicking and build SCVs) This will also affect the build probe key (we made a compromise before so that protoss players could offrace as terran without big complications.) The build probe key will be the same (home key for pinky finger). This along with other optimizations we will be able to make due to editing the text file instead of using the in game hotkey editor will be out asap (which is likely to take a decent amount of time due to all of the new considerations we now have to make). Thank you as always for your continued testing and patience. i have modified my TRM layout too attack = J build SCV = J CC to Orbital = I Mule = I I added a alternate key for attack J + control (for PF) but you're right i don't need it because i can right click and attack move for PF makes no sense :D | ||
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Aelonius
Netherlands432 Posts
Darkgrid here I come | ||
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Mar_1910
Poland22 Posts
On October 22 2012 16:29 Mar_1910 wrote: When I read all You answers, JakaTak should on first post read some advice for begginers. I know that he wrote a lot, but comparing with Chamelon there should be some more aka "Testimonials" or "Guide when I started" That's the thing. You CAN'T change attack on just PF. You have to change it on everything. Would you rather attack be on the ring finger, or only SCVs on the ring finger? I will try to modify a file to have attack and scv on it like JakaTak said few posts before. What do you mean, you "don't know what to hit?" Again, it can't really be helped that SCV is on I/U. It's impossible to change PF attack to something that isn't J/H without changing all attacks. JakaTak makes things impossible Huh? HUIO changed chat from Enter to Apostrophe because it makes chat somewhat accessible, while still having it be on a terrible key which wouldn't be used otherwise. Feel free to clarify, because I can't quite understand what you're talking about with Reactors. I am saying that hitting ; for reactor i somethimes hit ' for chat. It is very frustraiting, but I need more games to hit the correct key perfectly. I still have so many errors. Yeah, you answered your own question here. Also, you don't have to use the control groups for their suggested purpose, btw. I usually use ; (L on HUIO) for army instead of for spellcasters. With chamelon there were some suggestions and they helped me out. I need to write keys on the paper and maybe adjust something from Chamelon to TheCore. This isn't a layout to make it easier to type. It's another adjustment, a hard one too, but I got used to it, and I haven't heard many complaints about it recently. I am playing somethimes 2/2 so i need to type Something for something.Personal preference. Although it is still useful for Terrans. Dropping MULES is a lot easier when you only need muscle memory in order to drop MULES. Otherwise, the mineral patches are in inconsistent locations relative to the camera. Again, it's just a personal preference, and I agree that Terran benefits the least from CCs being centered, but there isn't a complete lack of benefit. Will try, I have to say one thing that I am starting creating locations during first seconds, but maybe when I will change when the Command is done i will see the benefits. Thx this answer makes me think that it will be still usefull for me. It is written in the first pos but maybe it should be more. In other hand we dont want people to be scared for changes. The video from Day9 with assumptions should be in the motivation section I dont see in this topic people that been practicing, played about lot of games (I will say >150 and said something that I said) Yes using the standards keys makes my brain muscles to be damaged Thx for You answers, helped me a lot. | ||
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Shiftfac3d
United States5 Posts
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Mar_1910
Poland22 Posts
On October 22 2012 16:49 poeticEnnui wrote: Top 8 masters with The Core. Took long enough! Keep up the awesome work, JaK! Where were You before? What TheCore makes better for You? I think it is right time for this answers after sometime of using it. Thx in advance. | ||
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Thunderflesh
United States382 Posts
Two of the most frequent actions you take are building SCVs, and attacking with your army, and I don't mind these being on different keys (i.e., I'm building an SCV so I'm pressing 'I', and now I'm attacking so I'm pressing 'J'; there's something tidy about this, psychologically). | ||
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JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
On October 22 2012 21:07 Aelonius wrote: So many people having trouble with their pinky... the weakest finger in your hand on such an important set of keys... Darkgrid here I come The pinky is not the weakest finger in you hand. Its actually the strongest aside from the thumb and has the most potential for dexterity. It's just often under used and therefore under prepared for something like this, once you train it, the speed will show. | ||
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JDub
United States976 Posts
On October 23 2012 00:46 Thunderflesh wrote: For what it's worth, I've had no trouble with SCV being on 'I' using TRM. I'd rather keep it on 'I' if that will mean I can then go in and make small adjustments to the hotkeys without unbinding everything (I use a weird mac keyboard, so I've had to shuffle a few things around). Plus, when I *do* want to target fire something with a PF, I feel like I'll screw it up if 'J' just builds an SCV. Two of the most frequent actions you take are building SCVs, and attacking with your army, and I don't mind these being on different keys (i.e., I'm building an SCV so I'm pressing 'I', and now I'm attacking so I'm pressing 'J'; there's something tidy about this, psychologically). Honestly I also feel that sacrificing the ability to edit hotkeys in the in-game editor isn't a good tradeoff. I don't see the issue with having scv on the ring-finger home key as opposed to the pinky home key. They are equally easy to press, and after a certain point in game, mule call downs and chronoboost get used more than build worker (once you have ~65-80 workers). I think accessibility is an important factor for TheCore, especially if we want to spread it around as much as possible. Telling people, "sorry, learn how to edit the .SC2Hotkeys file directly" could be a deal-breaker on whether or not they try it. | ||
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JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
On October 23 2012 01:22 JDub wrote: Honestly I also feel that sacrificing the ability to edit hotkeys in the in-game editor isn't a good tradeoff. I don't see the issue with having scv on the ring-finger home key as opposed to the pinky home key. They are equally easy to press, and after a certain point in game, mule call downs and chronoboost get used more than build worker (once you have ~65-80 workers). I think accessibility is an important factor for TheCore, especially if we want to spread it around as much as possible. Telling people, "sorry, learn how to edit the .SC2Hotkeys file directly" could be a deal-breaker on whether or not they try it. mmm, we'll definitely have to consider making it a suggestion rather than a patch. What does everyone else think? | ||
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Mar_1910
Poland22 Posts
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Dark Seraph
United States30 Posts
On October 23 2012 01:27 JaKaTaK wrote: mmm, we'll definitely have to consider making it a suggestion rather than a patch. What does everyone else think? As a terran who always goes either bio or bio tank in every matchup, I find that using all 4 fingers to quickly make both SCVs and marines (rapidly pressing PI and OJ) feels much more natural than turning the action to do this into PJ->OJ. 1. Having your pinky finger do BOTH of these extremely common actions will certainly cause it to become tired more quickly than before. Sharing these actions with the ring finger helps prevent finger fatigue. 2. Using your ring finger about as often as your pinky finger from very early in the game gets that finger "warmed up" for when you have to use it later. | ||
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Mar_1910
Poland22 Posts
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