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On October 13 2012 01:44 evenjn wrote:
Not related to TheCore, but maybe useful to the developers (although I guess they knew it already).
I just found out that by editing the hotkey file in the disk, it's possible to assign conflicting hotkeys. For example, it's possible to assign the same key to attack and to produce SCV. This would be impossible in the editor because the Planetary Fortress (PF) also has the attack command.
However using this setting and pressing the conflicting key results in the PF producing the SCV, not in attacking. This makes it usable, and because you are never going to attack-move the PF there are no major drawbacks in doing this.
Also, you can assign CTRL+A to attack (not that I would want to do that), and other great stuff that would not be possible to do with the software.
I guess it could be useful to assign "dangerous" commands such as Lift, Salvage, Templar's Merge and Baneling's Explode to a CTRL+whatever combination.
They already know (see the replay observer keys).
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On October 13 2012 01:44 evenjn wrote:
Not related to TheCore, but maybe useful to the developers (although I guess they knew it already).
I just found out that by editing the hotkey file in the disk, it's possible to assign conflicting hotkeys. For example, it's possible to assign the same key to attack and to produce SCV. This would be impossible in the editor because the Planetary Fortress (PF) also has the attack command.
However using this setting and pressing the conflicting key results in the PF producing the SCV, not in attacking. This makes it usable, and because you are never going to attack-move the PF there are no major drawbacks in doing this.
Also, you can assign CTRL+A to attack (not that I would want to do that), and other great stuff that would not be possible to do with the software.
I guess it could be useful to assign "dangerous" commands such as Lift, Salvage, Templar's Merge and Baneling's Explode to a CTRL+whatever combination.
We did know this already... but never actually considered using it to do things that aren't normally possible. Wow... I'll start looking into this. The thing I've really always wanted to do is build advanced with shift or ctrl + build basic key. This is going to be excellent. However, the issue is, that if you make any changes in the Sc2 client to your hotkey file, it will automatically unbind anything it wouldn't have allowed you to do in the first place. This might make the layout a bit less user friendly, but that hasn't stopped us before, and will likely not stop us now. Thanks so much for bringing this up, this will likely yeild great improvements :D
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On October 13 2012 02:37 JaKaTaK wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2012 01:44 evenjn wrote:
Not related to TheCore, but maybe useful to the developers (although I guess they knew it already).
I just found out that by editing the hotkey file in the disk, it's possible to assign conflicting hotkeys. For example, it's possible to assign the same key to attack and to produce SCV. This would be impossible in the editor because the Planetary Fortress (PF) also has the attack command.
However using this setting and pressing the conflicting key results in the PF producing the SCV, not in attacking. This makes it usable, and because you are never going to attack-move the PF there are no major drawbacks in doing this.
Also, you can assign CTRL+A to attack (not that I would want to do that), and other great stuff that would not be possible to do with the software.
I guess it could be useful to assign "dangerous" commands such as Lift, Salvage, Templar's Merge and Baneling's Explode to a CTRL+whatever combination. We did know this already... but never actually considered using it to do things that aren't normally possible. Wow... I'll start looking into this. The thing I've really always wanted to do is build advanced with shift or ctrl + build basic key. This is going to be excellent. However, the issue is, that if you make any changes in the Sc2 client to your hotkey file, it will automatically unbind anything it wouldn't have allowed you to do in the first place. This might make the layout a bit less user friendly, but that hasn't stopped us before, and will likely not stop us now. Thanks so much for bringing this up, this will likely yeild great improvements :D
Do you think it's worth using a ctrl key combination to change "morph Vipers" to something else?
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ZRM .5
Thanks for the ctrl J, and ctrl shift J suggestions for binding the shift P control group.
Not sure why I didn't think of that instead of K, probably would have saved me a lot of trouble.
- Ninja edit
Would be nice to keep Choose Recipient as tab, or at least bind it as an alternative. It's still easier to type with 2 hands on the keyboard and tab is what people have gotten used to when it comes to messaging and responding.
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ZRS .5, from the GitHub repo
I can't send a chat message in game. I press left to bring up the chat interface, but left just moves the cursor left, it doesn't send my message.
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Protoss PRM Warp Prism has drop (a single unit) bound to D. That seems like a mistake. =)
-Cross (Feeeels like, by our logic, it should be M)
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On October 13 2012 02:37 JaKaTaK wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2012 01:44 evenjn wrote:
Not related to TheCore, but maybe useful to the developers (although I guess they knew it already).
I just found out that by editing the hotkey file in the disk, it's possible to assign conflicting hotkeys. For example, it's possible to assign the same key to attack and to produce SCV. This would be impossible in the editor because the Planetary Fortress (PF) also has the attack command.
However using this setting and pressing the conflicting key results in the PF producing the SCV, not in attacking. This makes it usable, and because you are never going to attack-move the PF there are no major drawbacks in doing this.
Also, you can assign CTRL+A to attack (not that I would want to do that), and other great stuff that would not be possible to do with the software.
I guess it could be useful to assign "dangerous" commands such as Lift, Salvage, Templar's Merge and Baneling's Explode to a CTRL+whatever combination. We did know this already... but never actually considered using it to do things that aren't normally possible. Wow... I'll start looking into this. The thing I've really always wanted to do is build advanced with shift or ctrl + build basic key. This is going to be excellent. However, the issue is, that if you make any changes in the Sc2 client to your hotkey file, it will automatically unbind anything it wouldn't have allowed you to do in the first place. This might make the layout a bit less user friendly, but that hasn't stopped us before, and will likely not stop us now. Thanks so much for bringing this up, this will likely yeild great improvements :D
Voltaire already knew that you can't use ctrl+(key) with anything you can see on the control card, so that's not possible.
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On October 13 2012 01:40 maLaK1 wrote:
I can't decide between ZRM and ZRS
i've played both layouts a lot now and I'm very comfortable with both but I dont know which one is more efficient
the main differences for me are ZRS feels more compact and faster but all keys feel very tightly packed into one area,
hitting CTRL+SHIFT is easier on ZRS but building units and the rest is better on ZRM because the keys on ZRS feel too close together
so with ZRM i have a bit more space for my fingers and it feels more comfortable
any advice? at the moment im switching between both relatively often
*push* got stuck on last page
please help =)
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@maLaK1
ZRM has more control groups, so I would go with that one. Otherwise, its completely personal preference. :D
@anty
You're probably right, but I hope you are wrong. I'll test in the morning :D
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On October 13 2012 10:59 JaKaTaK wrote:
@maLaK1
ZRM has more control groups, so I would go with that one. Otherwise, its completely personal preference. :D
@anty
You're probably right, but I hope you are wrong. I'll test in the morning :D
im using ZRM again now , ive used it for such a long time (since i switched to the core ) that i got used to it, it feels more comfortable
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What does "layered camera" mean in terms of hotkeys? I've done some searches on TL in this thread and others, but can't find an exact definition or anything that would give me a better idea. Can someone explain the concept behind it? How is it different from setting your cameras to F1-8, other than ergonomic camera hotkey locations? What are the differences between a layered and a "free" camera?
Thanks =)
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The layered concept comes from using the same buttons for both unit control and camera locations.
ZRM for example uses
9 0 - as both unit control groups and camera locations
Holding alt and hitting one of those buttons (I.E. Alt 9, Alt 0, Alt -), sets the camera location.
Holding shift and hitting one of the buttons jumps the camera to that location
Holding ctrl and pressing one of them adds units to the control group
hold ctrl+shift and hitting a button resets the control group to whatever you currently have selected.
Simply pressing 9, 0, or - selects the unit group.
Edit for clarification on free cameras.
The alt key by default centers your camera on whatever you currently have selected. If you want to set a camera location at a watch tower without having a unit there it's a little bit tougher because you have to press alt, then click the minimap, then hit the button. The alt camera locations are much easier to use for base management.
Free cameras do not use the alt key to set, this allows them to easily be set to whatever location is needed or convenient at the time.
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+ Show Spoiler +
SUCCESS
I don't understand why it works now. I tried this kind of thing before and I failed.
Maybe it just doesn't work on some commands... I'll try units.
EDIT:
+ Show Spoiler +
Yep, units work too. Maybe it was patched at some point. I think 1.5.0 came out after my first attempt, so maybe that's when it was fixed!
I figured a huge patch might change it like this, but I didn't actually expect it! :D
Well, on the downside, that means you have a lot of work ahead of you, Jak. 
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The issue with doing this is that any modifications made in the Sc2 hotkey editor and not directly to the text file, will likely unbind a bunch of stuff. We may have to make a "TheCore lite" and TheCore or something like that. Maybe not, but what do you all think?
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I just tested it, and the results were not good. Everything which isn't normally allowed was unbound after I edited one thing.
Although it really doesn't seem to be too much of an issue imo. You could just set up a small tutorial in the FAQ or something on how to edit the layouts. Sure, it wouldn't be as user-friendly, but to put up a series of clearly sub-par layouts with little-to-no benefits over TheCore isn't worth the effort.
Something like:
"For Windows users, right-click on the file and then click 'Open with...' Then find a program such as Microsoft Word, Notepad, or WordPad and make sure the 'Always use the selected program to open this kind of file' option is selected..." etc.
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On my computer it is safe to change the assignment of some keys that are not related to the notepad-edited "illegal" bindings. They don't get scraped off.
EDIT: I was wrong. Most of the times it does scrape them off.
Anyway it could be risky to rely too much on these tricks. It may be possible that a future patch will make these assignments illegal - and they won't work any more.
But tonight I'll have to hold Control to lift buildings 
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On October 14 2012 05:36 evenjn wrote:On my computer it is safe to change the assignment of some keys that are not related to the notepad-edited "illegal" bindings. They don't get scraped off. EDIT: I was wrong. Most of the times it does scrape them off. Anyway it could be risky to rely too much on these tricks. It may be possible that a future patch will make these assignments illegal - and they won't work any more.But tonight I'll have to hold Control to lift buildings
Actually, the converse is true as well.
These were patched in by 1.5.0. It's probably a bug, and will be either fixed or neglected depending on if Blizz notices or not and how important it is to Blizz.
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I am currently using ZRM.
But I find pretty hard to hit the M button with the pinky. I have to twist my wrist in order to keep my hand near IOP and hit M. Since M is for muta or ability I have a hard time dealing with it, mainly when I have to quickly transfuse.
Does anyone have the same problem/solution?
I am thinking at remapping CG L to M cause I am not really using it.
BTW TheCore is awesome great job supporting it!
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On October 14 2012 22:49 SpikyKnox wrote:
I am currently using ZRM.
But I find pretty hard to hit the M button with the pinky. I have to twist my wrist in order to keep my hand near IOP and hit M. Since M is for muta or ability I have a hard time dealing with it, mainly when I have to quickly transfuse.
Does anyone have the same problem/solution?
I am thinking at remapping CG L to M cause I am not really using it.
BTW TheCore is awesome great job supporting it!
I have no problems at all with hitting M. Maybe your hand is a bit small.
You should try ZRS and see if that works.
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ZRM .5
I spent the day off racing as terran. Because I don't plan to actually play terran I decided not to switch my hotkey setups. I wanted to keep the same control groups and camera locations.
I have to say I'm a bit disappointed. While it is a plus that the other races are even playable, it seems like all the logic behind the core fails when it comes to off racing. A quick example, build barracks is OH, and liftoff is I. I looked over TRM hotkeys and controls and the build commands look much better. What I don't understand is why ZRM terran controls do not try to mirror TRM building controls as much as possible.
Is this something that will be added or is there any logic behind it?
I think I'm done off racing, or if I go to do it again I will download TRM version and change the unit control and location hotkeys to the zerg setup. If anyone wants to mess around with multiple races they should probably look into the Random hotkeys.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/l627/0Lavos0/Untitled_zpsebc092d1.png)
![[image loading]](http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/l627/0Lavos0/Untitled2_zpsec62e82d.png)
