EPT[G] TheCore - Advanced Keyboard Layout - Page 52
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Antylamon
United States1981 Posts
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gvb
United States30 Posts
I actually spoke to Foxy about this, and setting cameras without a base is meant for the rally cameras that are set with the Shift key. Removing the alt center-on-screen functionality destroys your ability to chrono/inject as efficiently, as the cameras don't perfectly center on your base building, making rapid clicking through cameras more difficult. If you change the alt function to not center on selection like me, you can proceed as follows for Queen injects. 1. At start of game, bind camera locations to your likely bases 1-4. 2. As you plant each hatchery, do the following: (a) left click on only the hatchery while it's building. (b) left click on the unit image area to center the selection (e.g., where a marine's face normally appears when you select a marine). (c) rebind that camera location. Now you're set to jump to that location from the very start of the game because you set up all your cameras immediately, which makes sending that drone over much easier. You can also correct the centering before the hatch even finishes so that once your queens are in place, everything injects smoothly. Hope that offers some guidance to folks who can't deal with the alt-center combo, and for whatever reason don't want to clear the unit selection. | ||
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Mastertoy
3 Posts
1.) I use the german ZRM-Layout. In your Data Document -> Zerg -> Control Groups: P Hatcheries O Injecting Queens/All ups ; Army L Infestor 0 Harass 9 Harass [ Harass - Brood = Harass . Overseer @ German keyboard P Hatcheries O Injecting Queens/All ups Ö Army L Infestor 0 Harass 9 Harass Ü Harass ß Brood AKUT Harass . Overseer But ingame I got the follow default hotkeys: 0 = Control Groups 1 . = Control Groups 2 ä = Control Groups 3 + = Control Groups 4 P = Control Groups 5 Ü = Control Groups 6 L = Control Groups 7 Ö = Control Groups 8 ß = Control Groups 9 9 = Control Groups 10 There is no: O for Queens or AKUT for Harass 2.) At the ZRM *.jpg "O" is a ability (blue) not a Gontrol Group (as in your Data Document -> O -> Injecting Queens/All ups) | ||
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Adanedor
Spain2 Posts
Been training this. My left thumb nail (right side) hurts quite a bit just from having it resting under the shift key. Anybody has had this problem? I guess it will be fixed when I practise more and my skin gets stronger. | ||
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XChoke
Australia45 Posts
On August 10 2012 12:28 Adanedor wrote: Hello, Been training this. My left thumb nail (right side) hurts quite a bit just from having it resting under the shift key. Anybody has had this problem? I guess it will be fixed when I practise more and my skin gets stronger. My thumb was sore for the first couble of days but it adjusted very fast. I think it's because you end up using the thumb a lot more than you use to do. | ||
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meursault
United States59 Posts
When I started I was mid-high diamond as protoss (2/3rds of the way up by mmr according the mmr stats plugin for sc2gears). I decided to learn the key bindings by playing a lot of team games and switching to a smurf account. After reaching 62 wins this season (up from 0) on the smurf account and playing countless team games I was promoted to diamond on the smurf account. I think the layout does have its advantages. I have not yet learned the camera hotkeys (currenly I use a mouse side button as next base - from my zerg days for backspace injects). The use of the thumb for shift and control is potentially a major improvement. The use of consistent hotkeys for production and spellcasting is good. The one concern I have about this layout is the overuse of keys that are intended to be hit by the non-dominant pinky. In particular any kind of hold position micro is difficult with the 'j' to attack 'm' to hold position. This is pretty awkward and it can be hard to use your pinky finger properly. The other question that I am trying to answer is what should be on the side of the mouse. I am thinking of putting base camera positions in addition to nexus, next nexus and the production group. I need to go back and read the papers that exist on two handed interaction for various tasks and the cost of context switching. If I recall correctly you want to avoid context switching between different types of tasks on the same hand and if you do this you can perform operations faster than otherwise. I think the question here is what counts as a context switch and therefore what should be on which hand to minimize the more cognitively difficult context switches. | ||
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bITt.mAN
Switzerland3693 Posts
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JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
On August 10 2012 22:53 meursault wrote: The other question that I am trying to answer is what should be on the side of the mouse. I am thinking of putting base camera positions in addition to nexus, next nexus and the production group. I need to go back and read the papers that exist on two handed interaction for various tasks and the cost of context switching. If I recall correctly you want to avoid context switching between different types of tasks on the same hand and if you do this you can perform operations faster than otherwise. I think the question here is what counts as a context switch and therefore what should be on which hand to minimize the more cognitively difficult context switches. I would be very interested in reading about the stuff you are talking about here. Context switching and two handed interaction sounds like papers I'd want to read. Link me please! EDIT: Also, could you please explain the exact button combination for the "hold position micro" you are talking about? You have to press "attack" and "hold position" in the combo i'm assuming by your wording here... right? | ||
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poeticEnnui
United States78 Posts
The premise of the game is that one person controls the macro mechanics and another controls micro, so it lets you hone a specific skillset without worrying about the other. Granted, there are some hiccups (the UI isn't entirely custom-layout friendly but it's trivial, sometimes your partner is utterly bad), but it's still very useful for training familiarity especially if you're just starting to adjust. | ||
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JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
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Adanedor
Spain2 Posts
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rofllocktree
Netherlands45 Posts
I'm using the core now for about 100 games and i'm definitely improving, but I start thinking that my hands are just to big and my fingers just too long to optimally function. In the opening post it says for different hand sizes but I can't find anything about it in later posts. I have the feeling that I have to bend my middle 3 fingers so much that my accuracy is way off. What's your best solution for this? thx | ||
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Antylamon
United States1981 Posts
On August 12 2012 03:27 Adanedor wrote: Hey, why is warp in on 6? Warp gate is meant to be out of the way because it kind of destroys the concept of using next subgroup for production. If you missed this, now is the time to read it: On June 03 2012 06:50 JaKaTaK wrote: + Show Spoiler + After much consideration, we’ve concluded that subgroup production is generally the best way to macro. Here’s why: 1: Space There is so much you can do when properly using all of your control groups: harassing the enemy until they want to pull out their hair; easy, constant scouting; superior battle micro; not losing track of that overseer when the DTs march into your base. Things big and small that free up your memory and speed up your actions. We wanted to take these to the max. But, macro is so important, doesn’t this slow it down? 2: Speed Having all the production facilities on one key (excluding CC, Nexus) allow you to check how everything is producing with one click, until you get over 24 production facilities. The select next subgroup (tab) button is now on a super easy key, making production faster. By having them all in one place, checking on the progress of an upgrade or colossus is just one click away. Everyone I’ve talked to finds that this actually improves their macro, and lets them spend more of their memory on other parts of the game. 3: Exceptions For zergs who like to separately control group their hatcheries, using the designated harass control groups for your other hatcheries works well. This is also great for hidden expos, or your natural and main, to ensure warriors are coming from the correct hatch. Though we don’t have the data to back it up, we tend to think the advantages for this fall off drastically in the mid game (slower production, enough map presence that you can have a safe rally point). IdrA, last time he had his control group revealed, uses individual control groups for his main and natural, and then combines them all into one once he gets his third. This get’s the FoxyJaK stamp of approval. On another point, the layered cameras allow you to get the best of both worlds with only one more click. Use a hatch cam to go to the desired hatch, select it with the mouse, and then produce the units you want specifically from there. Or, if a hatch is dying, select all your hatches and then shift+click the undesired hatch. If you try sub-group production and find you just can’t get it to work for you, consider placing the second-most-used production structure on a harass key instead. But we strongly suggest trying sub-group production, it’s very effective. 4: Specialization The layout control groups are oriented toward the late game, where control is at its most complex and neglected. Sometimes it won’t apply to your two-base timing or one base all in, if you’re working on optimizing one of these strategies, take the time to consider what bindings will be best for that -- it might include things like at tech lab on one of the harass keys TLDR: It's because it's better to put all production facilities on one control group. Why? Read the paragraphs you just skipped. >.> On August 12 2012 03:51 rofllocktree wrote: Hey, I'm using the core now for about 100 games and i'm definitely improving, but I start thinking that my hands are just to big and my fingers just too long to optimally function. In the opening post it says for different hand sizes but I can't find anything about it in later posts. I have the feeling that I have to bend my middle 3 fingers so much that my accuracy is way off. What's your best solution for this? thx Patience, young padawan. What you are looking at is the beta stages of theCore. Once the full release comes out, that is when bigger hand sizes will come out. In the mean time, if you want to convert it to a bigger hand size on your own, feel free to The home keys for the next biggest size are HUIO. | ||
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Thunderflesh
United States382 Posts
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Morton
United States152 Posts
I have a weird keyboard (sidewinder x4) in that the spacebar is REALLY long, and there is no win key on the right side. Basically it means I cannot easily press "/" with my thumb (covered by the alt key), but I can press space with my thumb easily. I prefer to have my control groups in the order that I usually set them, so command centers are group 1, production is group 2, main army group 3, etc. Also i physically cannot reach the "," key to do anything, and i do not really like N as a free cam. I also do not like having control groups on my mouse, as I have to change my mouse hand position to to select the control group. Lastly, F8 for cancel is really far away and if I mess up, changing my left hand position to reach f8 usually leads to me making more mistakes as my hand is in the wrong position (H,U,I,O instead of J,I,O,P). So my current modification from TRMM is as follows: reorganized the group number assigned to each key (O is 1, P is 2, ; is 3, 9 is 4, 0 is 5, ' is 6, L is 7, = is 8, 9 is ], 10 is .) set control group changed to alt+shift+??? (that is where my thumb naturally rests when playing on my keyboard) next subgroup set to spacebar (previous set to alt+space) center on current selection changed to ctrl+shift set cameras set to ctrl+??? (for freecams) and ctrl+shift+??? as alternate (for bound cams) freecams set to Y, 7, 8 base camera set to B (as terran I personally never use it) anything bound to "," moved to N cancel changed to "/" which i press with my index finger ( i would really love to set it to mouse button 4, but sadly you can't without third party software) go to last alert set to mouse button 5 (backwardmousebutton) and finally, here is a picture to show you the issue i was experiencing. + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/2033/microsoftsidewinderx402.jpg) | ||
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AnachronisticAnarchy
United States2957 Posts
I have gotten raped repeatedly by someone who just waits until they have an anti-zergling deathball off of two bases, and then move out. You can't bust the wall, even if they have minimal forces, and you certainly can't beat the army. | ||
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IcemanAsi
Israel681 Posts
Been using the core zrmm for a few days now and I'm loving it. Everything feels much much faster, only problem I have is with the M/N keys, but I hope that will sort itself out with practice. I might just play some practice games doing nothing but making spores and pools. I did make one adjustment which helped me immensly but I don't know if it's in the scope of customization you want. I downloaded sharpkeys ( A key remapping program : http://www.randyrants.com/sharpkeys/ ) and remapped the menu button near the right-ctrl key to alt. That way alt is right next to ctrl and I can hit it without pulling my thumb into my hand which was both slow and uncomfortable. I still disabled the windows key on the right ( I am using a G7 btw ) I just want to give a huge thanks and let you know your setup works wonders for me. | ||
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Antylamon
United States1981 Posts
On August 13 2012 06:57 IcemanAsi wrote: Hi, Been using the core zrmm for a few days now and I'm loving it. Everything feels much much faster, only problem I have is with the M/N keys, but I hope that will sort itself out with practice. I might just play some practice games doing nothing but making spores and pools. I did make one adjustment which helped me immensly but I don't know if it's in the scope of customization you want. I downloaded sharpkeys ( A key remapping program : http://www.randyrants.com/sharpkeys/ ) and remapped the menu button near the right-ctrl key to alt. That way alt is right next to ctrl and I can hit it without pulling my thumb into my hand which was both slow and uncomfortable. I still disabled the windows key on the right ( I am using a G7 btw ) I just want to give a huge thanks and let you know your setup works wonders for me. The topic of sharpkeys has been discussed to death. The verdict is that it is not encouraged, mainly because some major tournaments do not allow it and similar programs. Blizzard does allow it as long as "1 keystroke = 1 command," but theCore is aimed not only at newbs, but also at pros. Having a program which bans them from LAN events (MLG, NASL, etc.) would severely hinder pretty much anyone at that high level. | ||
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JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
On August 13 2012 04:10 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote: Might want to add a clause to the JaKaTaK Method that allows you to build banelings on any level if your opponent decides to stay behind their wall on two bases. I have gotten raped repeatedly by someone who just waits until they have an anti-zergling deathball off of two bases, and then move out. You can't bust the wall, even if they have minimal forces, and you certainly can't beat the army. The goal is not to win. The goal is to improve. If you try to win, you're improvement will be slower than if you focus only on improving. | ||
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Snusmumriken
Sweden1717 Posts
On August 13 2012 13:25 JaKaTaK wrote: The goal is not to win. The goal is to improve. If you try to win, you're improvement will be slower than if you focus only on improving. true dat. I pretty much only play custom games at the moment. I dont care about winning I just decide what the topic of practice for today is (it may be anything that im having trouble with really) and then I practice it for an hour or more. ill try your method, see if its any good ^^ | ||
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