[G] TheCore - Advanced Keyboard Layout - Page 420

riotjune

United States3391 Posts

May 19 2017 20:43 GMT

#8381

Just some bw remastered updates:

https://starcraft.com/en-us/articles/20726737

Looks like Blizzard is intent on shoehorning everyone into using 1-0 for control groups as well as f2-f4 for cameras. So in between no customization and full customization, we get a half-baked one that's somewhere in the middle in order to "preserve competitive balance."

They should just stick to their policy of "one key one function" to rule out automated macros but let us customize every individual key.

MilExo

South Africa139 Posts

May 20 2017 08:46 GMT

#8382

Fully understand where you're coming from, but keep in mind they are doing this for the Korean scene where everyone still actively plays SC1. They are not trying to make a competing product for SC2, but rather just make it a little bit better for the people who wants to play it for nostalgic reasons or who has never seen it before and wants to have that experience.

Part of the "balance" for SC1 was unfortunately the bad mechanics,inability to change the keyboard layout, poor pathing, etc.

Personally, I will get SC:R to play through the campaign again and maybe try my hand at a couple of competitive games, but will then switch back to SC2. Can you imagine how frustrating it must be to have a control group for every building or have to jump back to your base to macro? I think many people who now complain about hotkeys will probably not play much when they notice how frustrating all of the other issues are compared to SC2.

Since this is the SC2 Strategy forum and this thread is about TheCore on SC2, lets wait until SC:R is out and what they end up actually giving us before looking at what we want to do with hotkeys and discus it in the correct place there. The current version of TheCore won't be the ideal solution for SC:R anyway since there are less camera locations, you would use control groups differently and you have less units. Something like Rapid Fire might also not exist (not sure). So while the same principles (most efficient key closest to resting position) will still apply, what those keys are and how control groups should be setup will probably be dramatically different (TheCore recommended 2 macro control groups at the moment).

riotjune

United States3391 Posts

May 20 2017 15:18 GMT

#8383

Whether the inability to change the keyboard layout actually affects bw balance is just pure speculation at this point since nobody really knows, unless Blizzard actually tests and implements full hotkey customization and look at thousands of non-mirror match results over a period of time, while somehow factoring map balance into the equation.

Not being able to change the control group/camera keys is like not being able to change WASD for fps or QWER for mobas, and I'm sure plenty of people don't use either because of personal preference, non-traditional keyboards, or otherwise.

Anyway for me it's just a question of whether can I customize the controls to my liking so I can get my physical input to smoothly transition to the game's output without fighting the interface because it's forcing me to do some hand acrobatics on the side. I probably won't be playing the game seriously as a result of this, just like how I don't take console Overwatch seriously because Blizzard were banning keyboard and mouse players who were using Microsoft/Sony approved peripherals.

JaKaTaKSc2

United States2787 Posts

May 20 2017 16:10 GMT

#8384

Looks like they're limiting us pretty hard on creating efficiency. However, i'll be mostly focused on TheCore+ for broodwar, which will be a combination of changing the keyboard layout and changing the hotkey layout. Through this we'll be able to have all 10 control groups easily pressed with minimal finger repetition just like TheCore for Starcraft II. This will require the use of sharpkeys/autohotkey and/or keyboard drivers that allow for rebinding like ROCCAT and Razer.

riotjune

United States3391 Posts

May 20 2017 20:48 GMT

#8385

Looking forward to that project Jakatak!

TyrianSC2

Canada52 Posts

May 26 2017 02:51 GMT

#8386

Not sure if I'm playing at bad etiquette to blind post a question, but either I'm having trouble with the search function and not doing it right, it isn't digging into posts like I'd expect (think this is the case - searching for the core doesn't bring up this thread) or it just hasn't been asked yet, but here goes anyway.

I'm using ZRM and next/previous subgroup bound to mouse forward and back buttons is killing me. Anyone else encountered this issue and found a suitable keybind for these? I'm unsure of where to put it, with as much thought and engineering that went into the layout.

bobo38

France220 Posts

May 26 2017 06:07 GMT

#8387

I personally kept the idea of using the mouse for next/previous subgroup. I have a stupid 3-buttons mouse, and made the scroll be detected as forward/back buttons. It's really comfortable and forgiving to browse through many groups fast (as a result my Tab key for TheCore Lite is pretty useless and could be reaffected).

– Would it make more sense for you?
– What are you used to? Tab/Shift+Tab?
– Do you have problem with the mouse itself for this function? or with some side buttons to be pressed with the thumb that you aren't used to press?

I'm a Linux player, I documented the particular setting to use 3-buttons mouse easily on this wiki page (as well as some more hints

):
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/StarCraft_2#Enable_Scrollclick

TyrianSC2

Canada52 Posts

May 26 2017 12:39 GMT

#8388

Oh my goodness, as soon as I read this it made a million times more sense. Of course that's what it should be. That would feel amazing. Thanks bobo!

I use a Razer Lachesis mouse, and for some reason it picked up the buttons on either side of the device - thumb and little finger - to have to be squeezed to make this function. That bothered me because the squeezing action of the mouse almost always moves the cursor.

I used to use tab/shift+tab, yeah, haha. Man, I'm going to rebind it to the wheel and call it a day. Thanks again!

munitqua

12 Posts

June 07 2017 10:40 GMT

#8389

Hi Guys,

I installed the PRM hotkeys, but most or all keys are unbound....? Am i missing something here?

Thanks!

riotjune

United States3391 Posts

June 08 2017 20:37 GMT

#8390

SC2 only lets you set/change hotkeys of the last mode you played. I know the co-op keys are mostly unbound, multiplayer should be fine I would imagine.

bobo38

France220 Posts

June 08 2017 21:23 GMT

#8391

Riotjune is right: you should download again, keep a local copy somewhere, play multiplayer only and never try to play Coop. The Stukov infested burrow+cloak banshee are fucking up all the burrowing zerg units + some funny business with UnloadAll (on top of many other issues) as soon as you launch a Coop mission with whatever commander. Campaigns should not cause trouble, but I'm not 100% sure

(I got TheCore Lite consistent over multi, campaign and coop, with some sacrifices that wouldn't fit TheCore key compact multiplayer-oriented approach: especially this burrow-unburrow cloak-decloack on separate keys)

munitqua

12 Posts

June 09 2017 08:04 GMT

#8392

Thanks for your comments. But even things like control groups are unbound which should not be right?
I will try the core lite see if that works.

bobo38

France220 Posts

June 10 2017 07:37 GMT

#8393

I looked into PRM from GitHub. PRM seems to have 2 unbounds:
– set rally point: can be bound to anything inconvenient as Right click works great
– spray: can be bound to anything inconvenient as purely decorative

In the first part of the article:

1. Why are add- and create control group so hard to press?
We have decided to replace the binds for add/create with add steal/create steal. We have come to believe the gain in efficiency (faster steal keys) is greater than the loss of utility (shared control groups).

Non-Steal group add/create command are mapped to NumPad to get rid of the unbound warnings. TheCore has this constraint that AltGr is seen as Control+Alt under Windows, so that there are less modifiers available to keep left/right compliance and consistency

If you have some feedback about TheCore Lite, I would be pleased to read it on TheCore Lite TL thread. Feedback from terran players would be really nice, to spot inconsistencies and try to adapt habbits/tricks from former playstyle, custom hotkey setup. MilExo did a great job reviewing the protoss part

Dubee4

7 Posts

June 10 2017 18:31 GMT

#8394

hey there...i just decided to swich to a left mouse hand since im a lefty. I thought since its gona be hard to learn all the hotkeys new anyways why not go with the core? my problem is that control groups are bound to alt+shift+x...how the hack do u press alt and shift with ur thumb? thx for your help ps i use TLM

MilExo

South Africa139 Posts

June 11 2017 06:13 GMT

#8395

You remove the windows button and you tilt your keyboard a bit and then press it with the side of your thumb.

Dubee4

7 Posts

June 11 2017 17:51 GMT

#8396

thats not possible since my shift is smaler and instead i ve got the >< key right between y(z) and shift.

bobo38

France220 Posts

June 11 2017 18:52 GMT

#8397

@Dubee4 it seems that you are looking at TheCore 3.0 TLM, the prioritized flavor of create group is with steal on Ctl+Shift, this one is easy with the thumb

TheCore v2.0 non-steal append/create are kind of neutralized being mapped on Numpad, you can consider the mapping on Shift+Alt as a kind of neutralization. In any case if you are more comfortable with create non-steal you can exchange the 2 flavors' keybinds

munitqua

12 Posts

June 12 2017 06:32 GMT

#8398

@Bobo38 if you only have 2 unbounds with PRM on Github then perhaps there is something wrong with my SC2 install or some problems with permissions ? I have many many unbounds with PRM on TheCore.

UPDATE think i found my problem. I previously saved the files with rightclick and save link as.... or something. Then i opened a text editor and found it to be not correct at all

Now i copy pasted all the lines into a text file and renamed it to *.sc2hotkeys
Should be good now i think. Will try tonight when im home.

Dubee4

7 Posts

June 13 2017 11:31 GMT

#8399

im getting better with the layout. there are just a view ajustments i ll have to make i think....dont have extra mousebuttons and as i usualy bind more then one production building on one hokey ill have to put next subgroup to another hotkey....any suggestons?
thx for ur answer bobo38...im figuring out how this method works out since its difrent from what i used to do before.
Im doing some kind of diary since i started to play with my left hand...so in case anyone is intrestet to read that just let me know ;P

bobo38

France220 Posts

June 13 2017 16:42 GMT

#8400

@Dubee4, this diary approach is interesting, maybe you can write an article at some point about that

About Control group stealing, you can watch JaKaTaK's video on Youtube: