On July 21 2015 05:52 LastPoet wrote: Does anybody have any good suggestions for how to incorporate the new archon mode functions into the core? Refering to the functions that add units to a control group and take them out of your allies control group (defaulted to alt). I really can't figure out a good way to incorporate these withour screwing up something else.
I was thinking about this too. I might try just replacing the normal "create hotkey" function with the new "steal units and create hotkey" function since I never have units in two different hotkeys anyway. I think it would work the same way or better in pretty much every case I can think of. There are problem some cases I'm not thinking of, though.
I think the problem with this is specifically with archon mode. Whenever you add units to a group I think they're going to get removed from all of your allies control groups.
Yeah. I could see how that could be an issue. Depending on how you and your archon partner split things up it might not actually be a problem, though. If you're splitting macro/micro, there isn't much reason for both of you to have the same units hotkeyed, except perhaps in special circumstances. I suppose it is better, though, to have the option of not stealing units when hotkeying if you can fit the new modifier key comfortably into the hotkey setup.
Does anyone know why the default hotkey for ping in the CORE 2.0 (ZRM) is Control + Alt + Shift + F7 ? That's pretty much impossible to hit, right? I know it's not the most important hotkey, but it's useful in team games.
On July 22 2015 05:34 xiaolinfunke wrote: Does anyone know why the default hotkey for ping in the CORE 2.0 (ZRM) is Control + Alt + Shift + F7 ? That's pretty much impossible to hit, right? I know it's not the most important hotkey, but it's useful in team games.
Why is x hotkey set to Ctrl+Alt? It is so hard to press. - Hide Spoiler - Many Keyboards have an Alt Gr key on the right side and an Alt key on the left side. In Starcraft 2, Alt Gr is represented by Ctrl+Alt. If you do not have a keyboard with an Alt Gr key, you have likely downloaded the wrong keyboard type.
So essentially right alt + shift F7. Never tried it myself but I imagine you press alt with your pinky, shift with thumb and F7 with middle finger ? On the other hand it seems like in the current layout if you press Control + Alt + Shift there is nothing else bound in the middle of the keyboard so you could bind the ping key closer.
I'm using TheCore 2.0 ZRM since 3 weeks and i made the following adjustments so far:
Switched the hotkey for Viper with Swarmhost because i need Infestors more often and the key is easier to reach.
Switched the hotkey for Drone with Zergling for the same reason as above.
Unbound TargetChoose from H because it causes my drone to stop when i send it to build a Roach Warren once i have enaugh resources and keep holding down the key. Also i couldn't think of a situation where TargetChoose + Stop would be useful.
Unbound Enable Structure Attack from the Baneling because it is the same hotkey as Morph to Baneling and thus could be activated by accident. I also have never seen a use for this command.
I'm using camera location + manual selection for injects so i moved camera locations 1, 2, 3 ,4 to J, I, O, P so i can inject the first 3 locations without having to use the index finger twice.
On July 23 2015 05:41 JaKaTaKSc2 wrote: Current Modifier Plan for TheCore+
Add Ctrl Add/Steal Ctrl+Shift Create Shift Create/Steal Alt+Shift Jump to Cam Alt Create Cam Alt+Ctrl
TheCore+ was the layout you remap keys for wasn't it? Care to share what those changes are?
Also, create being ctrl before and jumping to cam with shift, was there a specific thought behind that? Is there no lost functionality in changing this around? edit: no I got that wrong, add was ctrl and still is, but is create swapped with jump to cam?
Thanks for clearing this up, I was trying to get a 2.0 visualizer for 2 hours now. I'm having trouble seeing how easy access to only 6 hotkeys is a good thing, guess I'll have to try it.
I'm starting to see the logic now. Your pinky learns how to cycle through your production keys and your index finger learns your army hotkeys. Is there any tutorial videos on Core 2.0, I did search YT far and wide. Thanks to Jakatak for this creative effort!
Hey guys i've just downloaded the core 2.0 ZRL but i think the hotkeys might be messed up. Like, for larvae the hotkey for zergling and overlord are both O. Is this broken or am i just stupid. Pls help
On July 25 2015 08:41 Olimuk wrote: Hey guys i've just downloaded the core 2.0 ZRL but i think the hotkeys might be messed up. Like, for larvae the hotkey for zergling and overlord are both O. Is this broken or am i just stupid. Pls help
See the above post. The core 2.0 uses a hand position that allows macro with the pinky and micro with the index finger - very ergonomic. Test the setup in the visualizer link.
I would be interested in learning how thecore 2.0 ZRM suggested control groups work in the spreadsheet. Macro 1 is on J but macro 2 for queens is on 9, an odd key IMO as a brand new player.
Inject cycle would then be 9 + -? Thanks Jak for still supporting TheCore! Would love to see new vids for it
What do you mean with Macro 1? Hatcheries (control group 1) are on O, Queens (control group 8) are on U as suggested by the master spreadsheet. The larvae hotkey is all over the keyboard so you only need to press one key when making the most comon units. If you don't like that you can just change it to one hotkey like J or P.
Plan of Development (will take a significant time investment) 1. Add in the new CG management items for LotV 2. Add in TheCore+ files 3. Add updated 2.0 files 4. Add updated Lite files
I'm waiting for TheCore+. I guess 2 months. Similar or more?
About the naming of these new CG hotkeys, 'Create/Add to Control Group # and Take Away Units'. It's not very self-explanatory in my opinion, and it's also a pretty long name. Since this is the main thread on TL for hotkey discussion I suggest that we come up with a better name to use, at least in the thread. My suggestion would be Exclusive Add and Exclusive Create, or for short: XAdd and XCreate. This name makes sense, at least to me, because the Selection is added/created into a specific CG exclusively.
Would love to hear you guys' thought on the matter, and if it's even an issue.
@MilExo Problem is the name in the hotkeys menu ingame is 'Create Control Group # and Take Away Units' and 'Add to Control Group # and Take Away Units'. These names are relatively long. Painfully long, in my opinion. And not so descriptive either. So maybe the probable confusion is worth it.
Blizzard seems to use 'steal' themselves, which makes sense in an Archon Mode scenario, since you're 'stealing' selection from your other half. The name is short and, in my opinion, more descriptive for Archon Mode.
A Case for XAdd/Steal Add CG before regular Add to CG (i.e. XAdd/Steal Add on the Ctrl modifier) This case is made solely from a non-Archon perspective, as I have not experienced enough Archon Mode know what effects this suggestion would have in that mode. Nor do I know if TheCore weighs both equally or if 1v1 is weighed higher than Archon Mode.
The only time where a regular Add to CG cannot be replaced with an XAdd is when you specifically want a selection in multiple control groups. Some examples:
Stalker in their own Blink CG as well as in a main army CG
MarineMarauder in their own stim CG as well as in as in a main army CG
Some spellcasters in some cases
If you're doing all Hatches in their own CG + a CG for all Hatches. Same for Command Centers and such.
In all of these cases, a split can be made for which CGs Adds with Ctrl and which XAdds with Ctrl. So for the 2 first examples, having Ctrl be Add for main army and Stalker / MarineMarauder would fix the issue, while the remaining 8 CGs could freely be XAdd on Ctrl.
On the other hand there are varied situations where XAdd cannot be replaced by Add to CG, if the most efficient action sequence is sought for:
Splitting off Morphs: Banelings, Ravagers, Lurkers, Brood Lords, Archons.
Harass: Drops or split off a few zealots / hellions / marines / zerglings / etc..
Split army for 2 or more pronged attacks. (Simply box-select half the army and XAdd to other CG. If they are to be joined again: CG recall the split half and XAdd to main Army. Automatically removed from their split CG.)
While I'm not as convinced for Terran and Protoss, Zerg definitely gains from using XAdd on Ctrl because of all their morphs. Being able to simply Ctrl-click cocoons and then press the CG button is worlds easier than what we previously had to work with. Going by the currently planned Ctrl-Shift in TheCore+ for XAdd would simply mean adding shift after ctrl-clicking cocoon, but is what is gained from the other configuration greater than this?
As far as language goes, I've found Add/Steal and Create/Steal to be both intuitive and efficient. (also used in the .txt file)
Concerning layout development philosophy We give 0 fucks about archon mode TheCore has been and will continue to be a project whose goal is to create the most efficient, ergonomic hotkey layout for competitive 1v1 Starcraft possible. Support for other modes of play will exist if and only if they do not sacrifice anything from the efficiency of the competitive 1v1 layout.
Add/Steal vs Add on Ctrl Having different modifiers on the stock layout for the same function would be very confusing. Probably best as a suggested customization.
The question I think is: what will we put on Ctrl in the stock layout, Add or Add/Steal? I think Beedebdoo makes a strong cast for Add/Steal on the Zerg layout.
Can anyone think of a reason Add would be better on Ctrl than Add/Steal?
Hadn't seen that .SC2Hotkeys named it steal as well. That tips it for me.
Add vs. Add/Steal The stock version is currently packed on modifiers:
T, Z and R P No-mod : Abilities and Recall CG Abilities and Recall CG Ctrl : Add CG Add CG Ctrl+Shift : Recall Cam Create CG Shift : Abilities and Create CG Recall Cam Alt : Create Cam Create Cam
In any case incorporating both Add and Add/Steal on top of the same keys as Recall and Create for all CG would demand serious sacrifices which can hardly be justified. And the problem with having only Add/Steal is that it makes managing multiple CGs with shared selections much more cumbersome.
On July 30 2015 22:53 JaKaTaKSc2 wrote: Can anyone think of a reason Add would be better on Ctrl than Add/Steal?
That depends on the player. Some players like to have some or all their units together on their army control groups to move around and then select their extra control groups to position their casters/banelings/broodlords during a battle. Personally i traded both add and create for add/steal and create/steal and i didn't miss the old functions. But i didn't play a lot of lotv yet.
EPT
