@DeFNos: There might be a possibility. You need to check your hotkey file, if the mod created a new binding, or if it is just using the standard stim binding. (Search for something like …stim1 or stim_modname or something like that. Or if you are really lucky you will find SCV/Stim=). If the mod uses only the standard stim binding, I do not see a way to change this for one unit exclusively. If there is a SCV/stim, you can change it for this unit only. If there is something like stim0, you could try to assign P to it within the hotkey file. And above or below bind the build/scv to P. Maybe this works. If this doesn’t work, you might want to try to bind stim to semicolon or some other close key. Should not be that hard to press and would prevent unlearning of the build basic key.
@Majestetic: Check out “Players” in the OP. There are pro players mentioning it. The problem however is that pro-players would need to spend too much time to relearn their hotkeys. They would need to spend a month or more to get back to their level and start to profit from the more efficient layout. And this means they would not be able to compete in any tournament during that time and thus won’t make any money. Also most of them play SC since the BW, where you could not change your hotkeys. They are so used to it, it is most likely more efficient for them to just benefit from their muscle memory and press the old keys than relearning a hotkey setup. And, as a biased person, I can tell you, yes it is good .
@DaveSprite: FAQ: “My Ctrl+Shift+0 doesn't work / I can’t create my Control Group. How do I fix this? - Hide Spoiler - This is a windows problem, not a SC2 problem.
Windows 7: Look here for the way to fix it: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/967893 Windows 8: Go to Control Panel Click Clock, Language, and Region Options (make sure to change the view to "category" or you will not see it.) Click Change input methods In the left side click Advanced settings Click Change language bar hot keys (blue link), and select Between input languages. Click Change Key Sequence. For Switch Keyboard Layout, select Not Assigned. Click OK to close each dialog box.”
some things i found using the terransr setup wiht qwerty usa standar keyboard layout -halt key does not exist - ( ; ) this key does nothing (maybe on porpouse?) - when i choose any offensive unit does not show me: attack, hold, move keys(in the rigth small part) , just steam and skills. is this on porpouse or im doign something wrong? ; as somebody wiht abd memory and being low level player this is kinda of problem , even mroe with a new setup.
@witchblade: Are you using the GitHub or the Skydrive version? And relating to your last question: Check out the ingame settings. I think there is a setting in the Gameplay section that is called something like "simple command card". Please uncheck this and test if this solves the problem. (You might want to check out this vid: )
On October 06 2014 16:32 YoTcA wrote: @DeFNos: There might be a possibility. You need to check your hotkey file, if the mod created a new binding, or if it is just using the standard stim binding. (Search for something like …stim1 or stim_modname or something like that. Or if you are really lucky you will find SCV/Stim=). If the mod uses only the standard stim binding, I do not see a way to change this for one unit exclusively. If there is a SCV/stim, you can change it for this unit only. If there is something like stim0, you could try to assign P to it within the hotkey file. And above or below bind the build/scv to P. Maybe this works. If this doesn’t work, you might want to try to bind stim to semicolon or some other close key. Should not be that hard to press and would prevent unlearning of the build basic key.
Unfortunately there is no SCV specific binding (I also checked the SC2Hotkeys file). Rebinding the stim is only a last resort, as this ability is also very important. Putting it on a 'free' key, means putting it on a key requiring far reach. Not something I want to relearn as you can imagine :-). I think I rather not stim in fun games like the swarm mod that go for a non intuitive bind.
I'm enjoying Terran 2.0 so far. Does anyone want to give me an explanation for the cam changes and the control group modifiers stuff? I can see some of the logic behind it and there is info on the spreadsheet and I remember some of you talking about the possibility of switching, but I could do with a noob friendly explanation
@brothersadcase : Thanks for the feedback. It is really appreciated. And happy birthday, I guess ^^. The Cam stuff: You only need 2 modifiers for all the cam keys, because you can only create and recall them. Also, as far as I know, there are 2 modifiers that do not interfere with any abilities (Alt and Ctrl+Shift). This means we can use them however we want, and do not need to care, if there is any ability on a non-modified key, or if you want to shift queue an ability or stuff like that. So we can move all cams to the home row and to the keys next to it. This makes accessing them easier and faster. Now to the CG stuff: Shift is used to create CG, because you can easily separate single units with this modifier. Just select a CG, click anywhere, shift+click on a unit portrait in that CG, shift+CG-key to reassign the CG. The one deselected unit is now excluded from the CG. This is usefull for scouting, setting off WMs, banelings etc. Ctrl is used to add to CG, because you can jump to a rally point and Ctrl+click a unit. This will select all visible units of this type. So you can add them to the CG with Ctrl+CG-key (same modifier). Makes it a lot easier, if there are multiple unit types at the rally point and you do want to add them to separate CGs.
This is all I know about the new modifier usage. Maybe there is more that I am unaware of.
@Beede/JaK/whoeveritmayconcern: I just saw that you are also planning to add this (cams on home row) to the Zerg layout. I feel like this does not fit the Zerg play style (at least my personal version of it) for 2 reasons: 1. This will render the Cam inject useless, as you will have finger repetition with the Queen CG and the Inject ability when there are more than 2 hatches. (I cannot test it right now, but does Ctrl+Shift allow for queueing abilities? Otherwise this also hinders the possibility of shift queueing inject commands, which means you have to press inject for every hatch.) 2. The Ctrl+Shift+CG-key combo helps a lot when separating morphing banelings from a ling CG. I use this more often than the separation of single units, but this might be a personal thing.
I also wonder how this works with shift queueing workers back to the mineral line, when constructing buildings as terran or protoss.
Are those concerns arbitrary, or do the benefits outweigh those concerns? Maybe you can help me out here
@YoTcA You can shift-queue smart commands with ctrl+shift if you unbind "Quick Ping" off of Crtl+Shift+LMB.
After some playtesting, here are my concerns on the TRM 2.0 layout:
1. Having the free cameras on Ctrl+I/9 interferres with some abilities especially ctrl-clicking siegetanks to siege and unsiege. Oftentimes the thumb is not fast enough to release the ctrl button and it ends up in a total mess with cameras jumping around and stuff.
2. Not having autorepair hotkeyed really bothers me. What do you think about relocating the cam from Alt+9 somewhere else?
Hey, Thinking about moving from the Core 1.0 to the Core 2.0 shortly but wondering how injects work now. Is there a way to replicate the old base cam method that the Core 1.0 used?
Also, in case you didn't know, I noticed ROOT.Fenner was using the Core the other day.
Hello there, I'm currently trying out the TRM 2.0 layout and I would like to give some feedback of it, this will only be my opinion of the layout and somewhat influenced by my experience with ZRM 2.0.
The Good - I like how fast the abilities feel as well as the Buildings Map (with the exception of the bunker, due to being on , key, although the hand movement from L to , makes it a bit easier to deal with. - I also feel that the change of create CG and location cam mods was good, it lets you manage CGs faster and with less hand movement and the new Location Cam mod, although slow and a bit hit and miss at first (mostly due to my CTrl key being tiny) it feels good and allows for better Cam Location keys.
The Bad - now, the only bad thing about this layout, which is what i did not like about the RRM 2.0 as well, is the fact that we use the pinky for CGs. One of the reasons its more, lets say, personal due to my pinky being small as well has my hand; the other reason is that imo, it makes to other finger have a extra CGs (unless you bind the last CG to Y, which I think it's a bit impractical unless you play Toss) which makes finger repetition a little bit more common, maybe not if you use few CG, but I was planning of learning all the CGs, and I just feel that with the ZRM 2.0 it lets you use the CGs more efficiently (maybe except the , and . keys).
Before I finished, I would like to ask if it would be possible for someone to create their own layout/modify existing ones to fit their personal preferences without taking the benefits that it gives? And if so, would you provide some sort of guidelines if this is not too much too ask.
So, there it is, my first review, I hope it is helpful and if anyone thinks that I made a error in any way with the review, just tell me so that I can improve on it.
Hey Zoopher, thanks a lot for taking the time to write some feedback, it is really appreciated.
It is really nice to read how people experience the layouts to find out, if our method of calculating the layouts is correct or needs improvments. So first of all, we traded better CG keys for better CG-CG-Combos. This means the individual CG might feel a little awkward, but cycling through them should go like a breeze. Additionally, most people do not use their pinky that often, so you might just have to give it some time to adjust to the increased pinky usage. It is kind of strange, that you are that happy with the building bindings. We predicted a lot of conflicts there, caused by the two fingers next to each other. But I am not complaining, just realizing we might need to rethink the evaluation of the middle and ring combination. How do you feel about the attack command on O?
And to answer your last question, yes that is definitely possible. First step would be to make yourself familiar with the development spreadsheets: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/140gNhKs_1VCG6JJ9ijvEblKI9UQcpUKDTPap5t_kBeU/edit#gid=2010721057 At first glance they look messy, but give it some time and try to understand them. The sheets you should look at are T.Overview and T.Ability. There is a short sheet info on the right side of the ability sheet that should help you understand the table. We use those sheets to arrange the abilities and avoid conflicts. So you can copy them to your own account and move the abilities around the way you like it. After that you can edit your hotkey file in game to adjust it according to the sheet.
Hi YoTcA, thank you for the reply and for explaining the line of thought behind the CGs for TRM 2.0.
With the builds bindings, the only thing bad about that imo, is the fact that the secondary Build Basic feels a bit weird, but, especially the abilities feel fine for me.
With the CGs, I can feel how good it is to switch between them, especially with Macro 1 and 2, which was the main reason I did'not play Terran with ZRM 2.0 (too difficult to alternate between both groups with the middle and ring finger).
The attack command on O is, somewhat strange, can't tell if it is because I got used to use the P for attack command with the other layouts or if it is just a bad key for it. Maybe with a little more practise and habit it will become better. But, overall I would rather have the attack command on P.
(edit) Just a quick question. I don't remember who said this, but it was someone on your team that said that they thought Red would be chosen for Terran, why was Orange given preference (don't want to sound like a jerk, just pure curiosity)? With you answer it seems to be because of the CG-CG combo, but it seems that Red also provides a good CG-CG combo (I am saying this based on only trying some "sequences" with my fingers and somewhat influenced by my personal preferences)
Yeah, I also tried to play Terran lately with the ZRM layout and found U for CC uncomfortable in the beginning, but I got used to it surprisingly fast. But it is not optimal, just enough to get some off-race experience.
And concerning the layout color: In the end we had three layouts that all looked equally promising, each with some minor draw backs and some advantages. So after debating for some time, we decided to go with orange, because no other race used it so far. We also had purple (random layout) and red (Protoss layout) in the top three. The goal is to test all the different layout and see, if there are some advantages/disadvantages we missed that you will only notice by using it for some time. So feedback likes yours really helps
(Just to avoid any misunderstanding: Terrans aren’t guinea pigs, who have to use the last layout that was left over, because their layout was created last. We could have gone with all of the 3 layouts mentioned above and be equally confident that it is the best for Terran.)
R->Base Nexus and all other Nexi E->Gate (not warpgate) F->Stargate D->Robo 3, 4, 5, 6 army 2 scouting unit 1 idle workerz F1-F4 cameras F5 camera to nearest base (for quick MSC action)
apart from that everything is more or less the same layoutwise to the Core as it's been adapted from it.
Hey YoTcA. With the ZRM 2.0 I also tried the alternate macro CGs, but they felt equally uncomfortable ( I and L - O and K) that's the reason why I wanted to learn the TRM 2.0.
I haven't tried Red yet, that's because I barely play any protoss. What I was thinking on doing was downloading the PRM 2.0 and try playing Terran with it to see if feels better or worse than the current TRM 2.0, I don't know if the PRM 2.0 was made with Terran also in mind due to it being one of the possible layouts for the race. Maybe, because the macro is similar with Terran and Protoss, I'll play Protoss with their layout if it is not really suitable for Terran, and it will help me learn a new race as well.
I was glancing at TheCore 2.0 Master Spreadsheet and I noticed that there were some differences between the camera hotkeys I have using the PRM 2.0 I downloaded from Github about 2 months ago. Is there an updated version available somewhere?
Is there a trick to using TheCore for the campaign? It looks like TheCore has all the campaign hotkeys, but when I try to go into the campaign using TheCore RRM 2.0, 15 keys become unbound for WoL Campaign and 24 for HotS Campaign. These include the hotkeys for Cancel and Halt, for example, which are definitely bound in RRM.
Then if I quit the campaign and start a custom match against the AI, it's happy again and all keys are bound to their RRM values, including the aforementioned Cancel and Halt.
EPT
and would prevent unlearning of the build basic key.
