|
On July 02 2012 07:21 MrTwiggy wrote:
I need help. On the 'suggested control groups' options and such, I am trying to learn Zerg and am using 'ZRM 0.2'. For the suggested control group of Hatcheries, it says O...Except, O is not a control group key, it is an ability key?
O is used to select larva for instance (among many other things). So I use P for my Hatcheries.
|
On July 02 2012 00:43 Antylamon wrote:
Besides, you have to take a little sacrifice in order to get your thumb over the shift key. That is the main modification between standard and Core. To put less keys on the pinky and ring fingers means to reposition the hand completely, something that is out of the question.
For me, the primary advantage of Core was placing your hands much closer together while being slightly more efficient than grid. By using Autohotkey, I easily bind shift and ctrl to any key that feels the most comfortable, and I'm no longer enslaved to any arbitrary section of the keyboard. With a mini keyboard, my shift/ctrl keys are ALT and left arrow (and/or the windows key). This way, my hand rests on NJIL while my thumb, index, and middle fingers all have access to a lot of keys, and my ring/pinky only have 2 to 3 dedicated buttons each.
|
On July 02 2012 00:32 yevoc wrote:@JaKaTaK Sure. I'll reference the famous carPalx project, as it lays everything out the most succinctly. http://mkweb.bcgsc.ca/carpalx/?typing_effortexcerpt: Characteristics of a successful model
If you explore keyboard layout projects, such as Capewell or Arensito, you'll find that each approach is different and uses a combination of heuristic and algorithmic contributions to determining the goodness of a layout. There are certain properties of a good layout, however, that are widely agreed upon
limited use of weak fingers, like pinky and ring finger
limited use of bottom row
increased use of home row
limited finger travel distance
limited same-finger typing (e.g. uhm)
balanced hand-use vs right-hand priority (see below)
alternating hand-use vs rolling (see below)
Just because something is widely agreed upon, doesn't mean it is necessary correct. I'm pretty sure at one point human slavery was widely agreed upon.
If you would have asked me three weeks ago if I liked pressing keys with my pinky finger, I would have said hell no. But after practicing the core, my pinky finger now strikes keys accurately and confidently. In fact my left pinky finger feels as dexterous as my index, whereas my right pinky finger feels like dead weight and worthless. I may try ZLMM to strengthen my right pinky, 
|
On July 02 2012 14:48 yevoc wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2012 00:43 Antylamon wrote:
Besides, you have to take a little sacrifice in order to get your thumb over the shift key. That is the main modification between standard and Core. To put less keys on the pinky and ring fingers means to reposition the hand completely, something that is out of the question. For me, the primary advantage of Core was placing your hands much closer together while being slightly more efficient than grid. By using Autohotkey, I easily bind shift and ctrl to any key that feels the most comfortable, and I'm no longer enslaved to any arbitrary section of the keyboard. With a mini keyboard, my shift/ctrl keys are ALT and left arrow (and/or the windows key). This way, my hand rests on NJIL while my thumb, index, and middle fingers all have access to a lot of keys, and my ring/pinky only have 2 to 3 dedicated buttons each.
What is this Autohotkey you speak of? I am very interested :O
|
Layouts for Latin American keyboards are here (excluding at least Brazilian). Your keyboard should look something like this:
http://elpatiospanish.com/downloads/kb_latinamerican.png
Edit: links are now in the OP
This might also work for Spanish keyboards. Please tell me if it does.
Thanks to Kwodahn for the Latin layout!
|
Bosnia-Herzegovina439 Posts
Hey guys. First of all, congrats to everyone participating in this project. I can see you are doing well by the amount of posts and people participating. From the start i didn't understand what's the point of this perfect hotkey setup quest, but with time, by glancing your posts i think i can see the advantages of it...
Here is what i would like to see. I would like to see a master player (at least diamond then if no master is using it) video recording of his keyboard hand in a ladder game to actually see just how effective this is and how hand movement actually occurs. I know that Jakatak has his training videos, steps for noobs and stuff, but what about the real game. I mean - that's what this is all about - to play the game effectively.
Sorry if this is much to ask, but i am really curious about to see the core in actual 20 minute game at at least diamond level.
|
On July 03 2012 07:09 Mesha wrote:
Hey guys. First of all, congrats to everyone participating in this project. I can see you are doing well by the amount of posts and people participating. From the start i didn't understand what's the point of this perfect hotkey setup quest, but with time, by glancing your posts i think i can see the advantages of it...
Here is what i would like to see. I would like to see a master player (at least diamond then if no master is using it) video recording of his keyboard hand in a ladder game to actually see just how effective this is and how hand movement actually occurs. I know that Jakatak has his training videos, steps for noobs and stuff, but what about the real game. I mean - that's what this is all about - to play the game effectively.
Sorry if this is much to ask, but i am really curious about to see the core in actual 20 minute game at at least diamond level.
imo that's asking for a bit too much... You already have the data and development documents which tell you everything from which finger presses what key to which control group should be used for what.
With a little thinking you can piece it together very quickly and easily. It might take around 5-10 minutes, but that's nothing compared to the total learning time for this hotkey layout.
|
Version 0.3 is now LIVE!!! All the files have been updated and graphics soon to be updated as well!
These are the general changes:
Hatch/Larva Conflicts Improved (hopefully less accidental queens and such)
Burrow and Unburrow are now on separate keys.
Generate and Stop Generating Creep are on separate keys. (Zerg Specific Only)
"Select all larva" is now back to R and I (non-Zerg Specific Only)
Patrol-Stim splits vs banelings has been improved (Terran Specific Only)
Load is now on a "throwaway" key, it is unnecessary.
High Templar, Ghosts, and Infestors have been optimized
Barracks, Factory, and Starport Abilities are now optimized
|
Bosnia-Herzegovina439 Posts
On July 03 2012 08:08 Antylamon wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2012 07:09 Mesha wrote:
Hey guys. First of all, congrats to everyone participating in this project. I can see you are doing well by the amount of posts and people participating. From the start i didn't understand what's the point of this perfect hotkey setup quest, but with time, by glancing your posts i think i can see the advantages of it...
Here is what i would like to see. I would like to see a master player (at least diamond then if no master is using it) video recording of his keyboard hand in a ladder game to actually see just how effective this is and how hand movement actually occurs. I know that Jakatak has his training videos, steps for noobs and stuff, but what about the real game. I mean - that's what this is all about - to play the game effectively.
Sorry if this is much to ask, but i am really curious about to see the core in actual 20 minute game at at least diamond level. imo that's asking for a bit too much... You already have the data and development documents which tell you everything from which finger presses what key to which control group should be used for what. With a little thinking you can piece it together very quickly and easily. It might take around 5-10 minutes, but that's nothing compared to the total learning time for this hotkey layout.
I don't understand why is this too much. Someone who uses the core and has a stream can make that video easily. And you mention the learning curve, i understand it's steep - that's why i would like to see someone who practiced it quite enough and can show the rest of us interested just how benefitial the core is.
|
is this switch worth it? i don't wanna have fun, i wanna see if it's actully worth the pain switching from standard to thecore
|
On July 03 2012 11:23 OneBaseKing wrote:
is this switch worth it? i don't wanna have fun, i wanna see if it's actully worth the pain switching from standard to thecore
There's no reason you can't have fun doing anything. However, if you goal is improving rather than enjoying the game, then I would say it depends. If you want to be better a month from now, then I would switch, but if want to be better tomorrow, then don't.
|
I think the switch is worth it, although I think to get properly used to it I think it takes way more games than the 40-60 (iirc) quoted in the OP, in that many games you get to grips with it but, at least for me, the WASD was so familiar of a home position from playing FPS and I could press every close key without thinking that it will take a while to get that used to JIOP. That being said, my APM is higher than before, although I hadn't checking in a little while, could have been from just getting faster in myself.
Overall I just think that at the very least this hotkey system gives you access to the full range of camera controls and hotkeys with no extra skill needed from using a standard layout with, in my experience, only really using around 6/7 control groups and no camera hotkeys. At best it will do that and make you much faster
|
okay thanks a lot for fedback
|
On July 03 2012 10:39 Mesha wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2012 08:08 Antylamon wrote:On July 03 2012 07:09 Mesha wrote:
Hey guys. First of all, congrats to everyone participating in this project. I can see you are doing well by the amount of posts and people participating. From the start i didn't understand what's the point of this perfect hotkey setup quest, but with time, by glancing your posts i think i can see the advantages of it...
Here is what i would like to see. I would like to see a master player (at least diamond then if no master is using it) video recording of his keyboard hand in a ladder game to actually see just how effective this is and how hand movement actually occurs. I know that Jakatak has his training videos, steps for noobs and stuff, but what about the real game. I mean - that's what this is all about - to play the game effectively.
Sorry if this is much to ask, but i am really curious about to see the core in actual 20 minute game at at least diamond level. imo that's asking for a bit too much... You already have the data and development documents which tell you everything from which finger presses what key to which control group should be used for what. With a little thinking you can piece it together very quickly and easily. It might take around 5-10 minutes, but that's nothing compared to the total learning time for this hotkey layout. I don't understand why is this too much. Someone who uses the core and has a stream can make that video easily. And you mention the learning curve, i understand it's steep - that's why i would like to see someone who practiced it quite enough and can show the rest of us interested just how benefitial the core is.
Unfortunately the number of people who have both is small to zero with the constant updates. I can't even win against plats, let alone dia/master (dia before switching, no rank atm).
|
this is really bad for people using microsoft IME, which is another thing for users with another languages. I can't use the right ctrl and alt keys due to the microsoft ime
|
Bosnia-Herzegovina439 Posts
On July 03 2012 11:49 Antylamon wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2012 10:39 Mesha wrote:On July 03 2012 08:08 Antylamon wrote:On July 03 2012 07:09 Mesha wrote:
Hey guys. First of all, congrats to everyone participating in this project. I can see you are doing well by the amount of posts and people participating. From the start i didn't understand what's the point of this perfect hotkey setup quest, but with time, by glancing your posts i think i can see the advantages of it...
Here is what i would like to see. I would like to see a master player (at least diamond then if no master is using it) video recording of his keyboard hand in a ladder game to actually see just how effective this is and how hand movement actually occurs. I know that Jakatak has his training videos, steps for noobs and stuff, but what about the real game. I mean - that's what this is all about - to play the game effectively.
Sorry if this is much to ask, but i am really curious about to see the core in actual 20 minute game at at least diamond level. imo that's asking for a bit too much... You already have the data and development documents which tell you everything from which finger presses what key to which control group should be used for what. With a little thinking you can piece it together very quickly and easily. It might take around 5-10 minutes, but that's nothing compared to the total learning time for this hotkey layout. I don't understand why is this too much. Someone who uses the core and has a stream can make that video easily. And you mention the learning curve, i understand it's steep - that's why i would like to see someone who practiced it quite enough and can show the rest of us interested just how benefitial the core is. Unfortunately the number of people who have both is small to zero with the constant updates. I can't even win against plats, let alone dia/master (dia before switching, no rank atm).
Thank you very much for your answer.
|
|
|
I feel comfortable enough with the layout now to make some small edits to suit my playstyle. I moved the contol group on period to backslash and switched around create overlord and create drone for easier early game spam. With hatcheries on P and queens on minus I have five army control groups ( [ ] ; ' \ ) below my index finger, which is working out well so far.
One thing I noticed in ZRM 0.3 is that transform to warpgate is unbound, that's quite an important hotkey for offracing.
A small issue that I am having is that "cancel drag selection" doesn't seem to work? I can't remember whether that used to work in standard but it would be quite nifty to have a way to clear my selection.
|
On July 03 2012 08:29 JaKaTaK wrote:
Version 0.3 is now LIVE!!! All the files have been updated and graphics soon to be updated as well!
These are the general changes:
Hatch/Larva Conflicts Improved (hopefully less accidental queens and such)
Burrow and Unburrow are now on separate keys.
Generate and Stop Generating Creep are on separate keys. (Zerg Specific Only)
"Select all larva" is now back to R and I (non-Zerg Specific Only)
Patrol-Stim splits vs banelings has been improved (Terran Specific Only)
Load is now on a "throwaway" key, it is unnecessary.
High Templar, Ghosts, and Infestors have been optimized
Barracks, Factory, and Starport Abilities are now optimized
Here is (hopefully) the full list of key changes for 0.3:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ArSoDiKab2yCdGpzdXFHS0lzYU1VY054cTdaX0Nyd1E
Do note that if any keys seem to be unbound in that generated document, it likely means they are the same as in the blizzard standard layout. (they aren't saved in hotkey files if that's the case)
|
On July 03 2012 20:42 Tarqon wrote:
One thing I noticed in ZRM 0.3 is that transform to warpgate is unbound, that's quite an important hotkey for offracing.
It shouldn't be unbound. Are you sure you didn't unbind it while making the changes?
UpgradeToWarpGate/Gateway=I
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
