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On July 29 2017 02:05 bobo38 wrote:
There is probably a good reason… otherwise:
– Barracks and Gateway (and Spine Crawler) would need to be put on C for easy simultaneous reach for Shift
– EngBay and Forge and Evos should be move to another similar key (CapsLock ?)
This seems more correct. You aren't going to get more then 2 forges or 2 engbays in a game. You might get three evos, but that will be the limit.
C feels like a workable solution to me.
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I chatted with JaK about that on Skype: it sounds like the good direction to go. It will definitely be part of the next TheCore Lite release
So I pushed that on the TheCore Lite.SC2Hotkeys:
– I copied TheCore LiteTest.SC2Hotkeys over the primary seed
– swapped gateway and forge keys (+ terran and zerg equivalent)
– generated all the seeds for all keyboard layout on master
New files can be found on the head of the master branch
https://github.com/bobo38/TheCoreLite/tree/master
Edit: I still have doubts about C for gateways as Space+C is more difficult to do than Space+E (for Nexus)… as more Gateways are built than Nexi, and C is currently v2.2 key for Nexus, we can think about having that:
– C Nexus
– D Pylon
– F Assimilator
– E Gateway
– CapsLock Forge
– R Cybercore
– Space Photocannon
I this case the keys to setup a base would be still clustered C/D/F
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If I look at my habits (which, granted, can be relearned), I would build Nexus, Gasses and then Pylons when taking a new base. This would be CFFDD while keeping shift depressed. This gives me finger repetition for CFF on my index finger followed by DD with my middle finger. If you swap Nexus and Gateway, then I go EFFDD which would be E - middle, FF - index and then DD middle again which is a very natural curling motion.
Also, from a Terran side, you don't naturally build depots next to your base, so that would just leave them with the uncomfortable CFF.
Space + C is actually easier than Space + E (remember, you also want to press shift for multiple buildings), so pinky on Shift, index on C and thumb on Space is just a downward curling motion of the hand as opposed to the stretch of swivel for E depending if you want to press it with your middle or index finger.
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I'm getting used to this new basic building layout. I feel that Forge/Evo/Eng bay on CapsLock may not be the perfect solution, but E and F for Hatch and Extractor is quite comfortable
@MilExo: how deep have you tested it? Are you considering switching TheCoreLite for long term?
I'm also trying to use:
– Forward mouse button as Control key to overcome the poor Control key location of conventional keyboard. The goal would be to establish some reasonable control camera for creep spread with this mouse control key
– Backward mouse button to launch some soundtrack and help me with the zerg macro cycle¹
I may add some mouse setting section in the README.md to cover those case and the usage of scroll to emulate Forward/Backward buttons 
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¹ based on those thread:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-strategy/274298-the-cycle-method-for-zerg-macro
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-strategy/524948-zerg-cycle-revisited-lotv
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bobo38, I need more comfortable control groups for my army units and realized that moving them from RFV to 234 is already quite a learning curve because of how used I am of everything being where they are. Moving them around also means that I need to move some other hotkeys to make them efficient so it will be a pain and frustration even just juggling my own control groups on a layout that I am already comfortable with.
This means I'm either going to switch to TheCoreLite or a modified grid layout with QWASZX3456 being the control groups and E - T, D - G and C - B being the rest of my controls in a grid layout.
Now you'll notice that those control groups very closely match TheCoreLite, so I'll go for it if the keys are comfortable (for example I don't like to go to T because is it a little bit far away). So if we can make TheCoreLite more optimal, I'll definitely go for it. If you want us to work a bit closer together, you are welcome to PM me your Discord (or skype) details and we can communicate that way in a bit more real-time manner.
I fully agree with Caps Lock not being optimal for building anything and have considered using it either for a control group or maybe some camera location as Caps A S D flows quite nicely.
I don't like extra buttons on the mouse as I feel it lessens the accuracy for me (fingertip grip), but think it will work great for people making use of a palm grip. I have some buttons below my space bar which I've mapped to Ctrl which helps me bypass the awkward placement of Ctrl. So moving Ctrl over to the mouse is something I should be able to help test.
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Hi,
On master branch, TheCore Lite has been updated for no unbounds in Testing. The new basic building under development is in as well (see the last posts for details).
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Master branch updated to support patch 3.17 and specially the Dehaka's key for the coop's primal
Dehaka requires an insane number of bindkeys, and the command power keys cannot be reused. Therefore 4, 5, 6 and Y are used for some of the abilities
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Could you change the bindings for his drones?
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On September 04 2017 12:57 MilExo wrote:
Could you change the bindings for his drones?
Now that you're asking there is no graphical bindkey edition possible for Dehaka's drone Basic Buildings. Not sure as well about the larvae morph bindkeys.
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something new stuff on the master branch, mainly:
– some Stukov infested SCV's building bindkeys aligned on new SCV building
– some fixes for Swann SCV's building bindkeys as well
(this fix as well was driven by an open issue on the github page, like Dehaka's change earlier :D Thanks guys for reporting issues and inconsistencies)
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So I'm using TheCoreLite since roughly 6 weeks now (protoss player for reference), and I have to say the experience has been a blast! I would never have believed that changing something as simple as your hotkey setup could change so much! I've been using a self-modified version of Grid before, and I was mostly wanting to try TheCore because of two things:
1. I was not using camera hotkeys at all, the F keys were just too far away for me
2. I was only using 4 or 5 control groups since everything higher than 5 just seemed to far away as well.
Since I'm using TheCore, I have been able to consistently use 8, sometimes even the full 10 different control groups, 4 camera locations and, after getting used to it, my APM has also increased from ~100-120 before to now 140~160, because the layout is just that much more intuitive. I'm now also more conficent to use spellcasters such as Sentries and HTs - something I was scared of before since they require so much attention.
I made some small changes to the layout:
1. I put controlgroup 4 on the top-left button (^) and matched CG 1, 2 and 3 with the corresponding numbers (this is more of an OCD thing tough  ).
2. I put the 8 camera hotkeys on 1,2 Q,W, A,S Y,X. It just felt weird to me not to have a cam location on Q.
While playing zerg I also noticed two things I would like you to ask about
1. Why is the drone rally point on 9? It just seems like a really hard to reach button if you want to change the rally
2. I'm only playing zerg for the warchest xp, so Im mostly all-inning. The thing that bothers me (and already bothered me with Grid) is that the hotkey for "select larvae" and "morph drone" is the same. Now when I have 0 larvae but I know one more will spawn soon, I often spam "select larvae", but then I accidentaly make a drone but wanted something else. 
Dont know if actual zerg players have problems with these though.
All in all, I just wanted to thank you for doing the amazing job that you do, TheCoreLite has definitely made my SC2 experience a lot more enjoyable!
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Thanks for your feedback!
To answer the 2 questions:
1) the drone rally point is on 9 to free space for question 2  you can rally drone with right click on mineral patch or assimilator, for a scout drone you can egg rally
2) select larvae is primarily same as Drone to keep "Space" hold and use key repeat to build as many drones as possible with your larvae amount and mineral, the same mechanism is implemented for some alternates
Larva=Space,D,R,T,G,C Supported units: drone, zergling, roach, muta, ultralisk, hydralisk; the 5 last should help you for your all-ins It is documented here https://github.com/bobo38/TheCoreLite#zerg-larvae (I found it last March looking again at TheCore from a zerg perspective, pretty nice tip) This tip alone should boost your APMs quite a lot, and free some room for more micro
The reasons why there is no cam on Q are here:
– inject initiate for zerg
– select prod build and jump to rally point for terran and protoss (that could help in army drill)
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So I'm using TheCoreLite since roughly 6 weeks now (protoss player for reference)
That is quite good. I'm very interested to know how many hours do you typically play per week, how much experience you have in SC2 and what level you are. I think understanding that will encourage new players to also adopt the layout.
2. I put the 8 camera hotkeys on 1,2 Q,W, A,S Y,X. It just felt weird to me not to have a cam location on Q.
There is a very nice synergy for selecting your warp gates and then jumping to a camera location for warping in:
https://github.com/bobo38/TheCoreLite#use-case-army-production--rally-point-optional-warp-in-pylon
1. Why is the drone rally point on 9? It just seems like a really hard to reach button if you want to change the rally
Because you never want to use it. You can just right-click to set the rally point.
I often spam "select larvae", but then I accidentaly make a drone but wanted something else.
Either learn to not do it, or alternate spamming between your hatch and something else. I don't really play zerg, but I recall bobo38 mentioned something about multiple alternate select larvae buttons, so you can have a look at that and maybe spam the unit you want to create instead.
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On September 09 2017 02:23 bobo38 wrote:Thanks for your feedback! To answer the 2 questions: 1) the drone rally point is on 9 to free space for question 2 you can rally drone with right click on mineral patch or assimilator, for a scout drone you can egg rally
Ah ok. I dont play enough Z to rally my eggs I guess, still nice to know.
On September 09 2017 02:23 bobo38 wrote:2) select larvae is primarily same as Drone to keep "Space" hold and use key repeat to build as many drones as possible with your larvae amount and mineral, the same mechanism is implemented for some alternates Supported units: drone, zergling, roach, muta, ultralisk, hydralisk; the 5 last should help you for your all-ins It is documented here https://github.com/bobo38/TheCoreLite#zerg-larvae (I found it last March looking again at TheCore from a zerg perspective, pretty nice tip) This tip alone should boost your APMs quite a lot, and free some room for more micro
Thats soooooo neat. Guess there are just a lot more tricks within this layout than I had ever imagined. Time to 12pool some more
Guess I should really have read these sheets, I'm gonna catch up with that ASAP.
On September 09 2017 02:24 MilExo wrote:Show nested quote +So I'm using TheCoreLite since roughly 6 weeks now (protoss player for reference) That is quite good. I'm very interested to know how many hours do you typically play per week, how much experience you have in SC2 and what level you are. I think understanding that will encourage new players to also adopt the layout.
Ok, so I'm a Diamond 2 Protoss player. I use a german keyboard if thats any relevant. I'm playing SC2 since about 1 1/2 years now and I'm playing ladder since about 1 year. Thats also the time I started using the Grid hotkey setup (with some minor modifications). I usually play about an hour each day, but in the last six weeks I was enjoying my holidays and playing about three or four hous every day, sometimes even more.
I picked up TheCore lite at the start of said holidays (because I figured I'd have plenty of time to learn now) and during the first day I was basically just messing around in customs vs the AI, looking where the hotkeys are located, did some proxygates, some 10gate all-ins and when I was comfortable with basic gateway units I slowly moved up the tech tree and messed around with the hotkeys there. Next day I originally planned to keep stomping AI, but I just told myself I had nothing to lose and went on the ladder. I was of course a lot worse than before, my APM was down to like 50 or 60 and I had to look at the command card all the time. As a result, I dropped from Dia3 to Plat1, was pretty close to Plat2 even.
But then I started to get the hang of it. I had figured out a controlgroup system for myself (+ Show Spoiler [System] +So I dont know if this is optimal but I use this:
^ = this I use the least. I sometimes put my oracles or scouting observers here
1 = Gateways
2 = Robos + Stargates
3 = Tech structures (forges, twillight, etc.)
Q = Main army (the one you just a-move
W = Warp Prism/scouting worker/harrasment forces
A = Any secondary army (melee forces if I want to have those split)
S = Spellcasters + Observers
Y = Nexuses
X = MSC
For cameras:
Q = main
W = Natural
A = third
S = fourth
Y = fifth (seldomly used)
X = sixth (seldomly used)
Is there some kind of suggested system? Im pretty comfortable with this so far, but all the tricks you linked me seem to assume a certain kind of layout
The layout was easy to learn because it is just so intuitive. Like, in Grid, you build a Colossus with R, you make a Robo Bay with S and the Colossus range upgrade is on E. Here that is all on C, and thats just so beautiful. I also liked that you can use TheCore Lite with both the finger position of typing (A-S-D-F-Space) as well as the FPS finger position (Shift-A-W-D-Space), so you dont have to learn a new position like you have to with TheCore. Its also very similar to Grid in that way, making the switch easier for me.
To summarize, the switch had been relatively easy to me. It included a surprisingly small period of getting worse because of adaption, but only a few weeks later I honestly wonder how I could play with Grid for so long and blame myself for not making the switch earlier.
And now, when I feel like I have internalized the layout completely I even find out theres more tricks to be learned!
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Nice story :D it's really great to get such a bindkey switch description
If you want a full list of features, you can start reading from here:
https://github.com/bobo38/TheCoreLite#thecore-lite-features
You may be interested in those ones:
– Rapid Fire Warp-In: all gateway units are bound to rapid fire keys so that you can hold them to warp-in as many as you can (gateway, money); you probably already got this tip
– easy cloning with Shift+Alt : shift+alt hold, right click to move unit, leftclick to deselect unit from the group, as many right click/left click you need, Shift+Alt+#group to overwrite this group
– rapidFire caster split: this one is a way to use Stop/Cancel with V to cancel psistorm thrown too far away before energy gets used, meanwhile your HTs will go in all the directions you ordered a psistorm 1 by 1 and got split
I've found nobody so far who reported a usage of the 2 last features. I use the Shift+Alt cloning sometimes (really useful to scout from a zergling herd), I've never been really talented in using HTs when I was playing protoss
I have some other tip to make warp prism elevator trick (something holding Control and Unload while scrolling wheel with the group to be transported + deployep warp prism as selection and each scroll being a smart command on top of the warp prism), I didn't implement it so far in TheCore Lite. I don't remember whether is was relying on TheCore Lite only, or using more that a reassignement of wheel scroll to forward/backwardMouseButton
Viel Spaß !
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Ah ok. I dont play enough Z to rally my eggs I guess, still nice to know.
Initially, you just rally your hatch (via right click) and then when you make units, just add them to your control group and then you can just use your control group to move around and these units will automatically be rallied to where your army is moving.
The layout was easy to learn because it is just so intuitive. Like, in Grid, you build a Colossus with R, you make a Robo Bay with S and the Colossus range upgrade is on E. Here that is all on C, and thats just so beautiful.
Really glad you like that change. It makes it so much easier as whenever you think "Colossus", you just press that button whether it is an upgrade or making the unit itself.
And now, when I feel like I have internalized the layout completely I even find out theres more tricks to be learned!
There is a lot of synergy in the layout to make things easier and make things just "flow". I gave bobo38 a lot of grief when trying to learn the layout because certain items just didn't feel comfortable enough so we made a lot of small tweaks. If you haven't gone through the help file, I would definitely recommend doing so. bobo38 put a tremendous amount of effort in setting that up and it really makes a big difference I think. Since you've already learned the layout, not everything might be so relevant to you, but I think the following section will really help you get the most out of the setup.
The biggest benefit in the layout is actually in these small details that just makes it flow naturally.
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Yeah, I read through most of the paper during the day and some of these tricks seem really useful. Im now trying to figure out if I should change my control group system or change some of the keys around to fit me better. Im leaning towards the second solution, because I really like to have my 4 army CGs directly beneath my fingers. Great work with the ReadMe, looks like a lot of consideration went into that (as well as into the whole layout).
I already knew about RapidFire (I had that also set up with my old Grid layout), but the other two techniques are new to me. The cloning one seems useful if you clone larger amounts of unit, sadly I only use cloning when sending out a scouting zealot . Same for the Templar trick, why exaclty would I want to split my templar? I can understand why you would do that with marines, but I usually pre-split my HTs (against EMP) by making each of them follow a different unit and if they get touched by additional splash in the middle of the fight you probably did a bad job anyways .
Dankeschön!
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Yes, the cloning technique makes is really useful with inexpensive zerglings, and even marines, to be sent scouting, or absorb some widow mine shot or baneling. For protoss it makes less sense, as the individual cost of units is higher.
The caster split could be useful in case of clustered casters. I tended to have all of my HTs together, with psistorm needing one HT to move in range before casting. At this point I thought at this technique as a way to order a move 1 by 1 in different directions to get a split with minimum effort. Maybe the cloning tip could be useful to make several casters follow different units in an efficient way…
It's really hard to find some ressources of reasonable HT micro for low leagues on the Web
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Hello everyone here. I came here to say my thanks to Bobo and guys which help him and tell how awesome thecore light is.
About me: I play Overwatch, played warcraft3 ten years ago using grid hotkeys and recently(1.5 week ago ) I started playing sc2( free version/custom games with noobs like me so nothing fancy).I started on grid but it was hard to use many controls groups and map hotkeys at all.
I Googled and get to the thecore ,tested it for 2 days( 2-3 hours per day) but couldn't get use to it at all: my overwatch/cs 1.6 ,warcraft3 hand position from years of gaming , keys like ; and / and . / and overall there is hard to see logic in positioning of control groups and map hotkeys. But i agree idea is good and reasonable. Anyway I tried to use different versions and in the end i tried the light version too ( even if i though it's for notebooks)
So today I tested thecore light in custom games with no opponent for about 3 hours ,used all 3 races(I don't have main race anyway but my most played when I stared was zerg than protoss and now terran). And I can say it's the best thing I have ever seen that made by sc2 community. Parapam me now I really can try to learn sc2, now I can thinking more about decisions I make and not how to make workers or control these liberators! Yes I still need hours of practicing but now I see thats real , before I can't even imagine that I can control 2or more groups and use camera hotkeys and do it so fast etc. Starcraft2 is much interesting and fun to play with these hotkeys.
So after these 3 hours I see logic in your system,the only problem I had in first 20minites is alt+q( like alt+other keys= camera hotkeys so why there is difference) ofc I figured out why and for which reason this combination exists( thanks for your guide, it is very well made) but I still need some time and thinking should it be that way or not.(at least for me)
And also alt+tab alt tab me from the game or if disable it in options just don't work so I use other combinations.
So your work is awesome, big thanks from me. If you need some thoughts from new sc2 player like me I would glad to help.
P.s. sorry for my perfect english
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EPT
