– About multiplayer: only small adjustments for zerg – fix Coop unbounds – adjust some LoTV campaign hotkeys
Zerg detailed changelog: – Speed key back on E (overlord no more mass producible directly for hatcheries, prone to error) – Burrow and Tunneling Claws researches on CapsLock – Summon Nydus Worm is now Space – F alternate for Ravager's Corrosive Bile remove (not to mess up with roach morph if ravager and roaches are in the same group)
Hey bobo38, Just wanted to say thanks a ton for the work you've put into updating TheCoreLite! I'm getting back into starcraft now that i have a new mouse that doesn't double click from single clicks every time :p B4 i stopped playing last, i was using the main TheCore setup, but have a mouse w/ more side buttons which will free up a lot of room & have a simple control group setup so figured might as well use left side of keyboard to make typing easier while i have SC2 open. I've been procrastinating loading up SC2 for a while cuz i was dreading making a hotkey setup from scratch, as i thought the LITE version hasn't been touched in a long time. Sure am relieved to i read the comments here.
Been a zerg player since BroodWar, but have been debating switching to Terran. Sorta feels like treason tho Anyways, thx again. And of course you too JakaTaK
You're welcome ! I'm trying to switch to zerg nowadays (from protoss), that's why zerg is being polished at the moment.
About double clicks: Ctl+LeftClick acts as double click. Ctl + #groupkey append/steal to the group¹. Do you see any other application I would have missed ?
I've also implemented some sort of Control Cam from TheCore particularly useful for creep spread². It's not that optimal, but you could think of something better and more comfortable with your mouse buttons (either put the groups on them or put the cams).
If you wanted to adapt for more than Multiplayer, feel free to fork TheCore Lite github repository. The infrastructure is of great help to bind keys over multiple modes.
I'm not sure if what i said about my old mouse "double clicking" was misunderstood. My old mouse was the razer naga-hex, and as with a lot of razer mice, they've had issues w/ double clicking when you press a button once. So was super annoying while playing SC2, when in battle for example, I'd press select my hatches group hotkey and the camera would snap to a hatch being as my mouse decided to double select the control group hotkey..
Regardless if I was misunderstood or not, those points you mentioned im glad you implemented into coreLite. I'd have to play a some games before noticing if there was anything you may have missed, it's been a while since i last played. There's a chance everything will come back to me just while im editing my hotkeys which im about to start doing in a few mins.
But yeah, i use my mouse buttons for control groups and camera locations, then re-arrange unit producing hotkeys/spells, etc. to easier positions for me. TBH, having a mouse w/ extra buttons has made me become pretty lazy with how i play games :p Any keys that i'd have to stretch any finger but my index, im not very accurate with. So im sure how u have everything atm optimal, but sure, anything i notice that i think would benefit most players i'll be sure to let you know.
[…] now that i have a new mouse that doesn't double click from single clicks every time :p
oops, yeah I read too fast and didn't see the negation
So far I've succeeded in keeping it up with no unbound in Campaign/Coop/Multiplayers. From v2.0.0, I have harmonized protoss and terran, while absorbing the patch 3.8 (with Stukov's coop burrow/cloak stuff). Since v2.2.0 I've been adapting zerg keys to get it easy to do sophisticated stuff. Meanwhile some changes were driven to prevent accidental keep press (last spot has been baneling explode this week, it will likely be moved to CapsLock for v2.2.3).
I hope that TheCore Lite will be a good basis to implement your setup
For zerg, one of the TheCore Lite killer feature is the Shift+Alt hold for "easy cloning¹". With the current setup, right click is not queued holding Shift+Alt, therefore you just have to right/left click. I'm a low league player and this tip has little usage for protoss, but it could be deadly useful in ling+bane skirmish. I'm interested in some feedback if you can test.
Changelog: – baneling explode on CapsLock – AI command keys on Shift+Alt to prevent autocast conflicts (TheCore_Lite.pdf updated to populate command keys and remember…) – Alt+Q changed from "center on selection" to "append to Hatch/CC/Nexus
Coming changes with v2.3: – remove Alt+Shift from alternates for center on selection (easier Shift+Alt cloning) – Alt+D as an alternate for "recall melee group"
Trying once again to learn TheCore Lite. Came across the following issues:
Adept too far away on G, it is much more a cOre unit than either of the templars so it should be on an easier button.
Maybe alternate option for gateway need to be looked at? Default hand position is on Caps, Q, W, D, Space. So Space and then Caps makes it Easy to build a gateway. Building multiple gates (Which happen frequently) would now move to Shift (pinky) and Caps (ring) Which is shifting and tilting the hand a bit awkwardly.
Glaives research is V, though building adepts is G (inconsistency with bridging method)
Thanks for the feedback MilExo. I definitely need such review like you give (especially for Terran).
I was attempting to write straight up an answer, but I realized meanwhile that both adept key and gateway keys are more tricky.
Adept: need to take into account the RapidFire stuff, the point being that V is no longer one (it is also forbidden for queuing for the Shift+V utility group). Maybe using F for adepts and T for DT (bridging for advanced buildings) – this could be part of the next v2.2.x
Gateway: CapsLock is an heritage for TheCore Lite v1. After thinking it seems that reshuffling some basic building could make sense. Thinking loud: – forge/evo/engbay on CapsLock – gateway/roach/barracks on R (make sense for Roach, and Marauder) – use E for assimilator/extractor/raffinery
Not sure whether it sounds good for you… This would require to move to bigger version number (v2.3). I could work on some experimental branch if you wanted.
I definitely agree that you probably need someone who plays Terran as their main to give you good feedback there.
Buildings: I only off-race as Terran, but generally building multiple barracks involves selecting more than one SCV, so then Caps is probably less of an issue. Still think you would ideally like to have more precise control with it (can even move it to a non-rapidfire key), as you probably want to place them so that you are sure you have place for the add-on. Late-game might be a different situation. Any terrans have feedback on this?
From a Protoss side, you almost always only have one worker building, so you would just shift-queue up buildings, so rapidfire on anything other than pylons I find relatively pointless (and pylons probably as well unless your macro is horrible).
Looking at the basic structures for Protoss, the priority (in terms of frequency of use) would probably be:
Pylons
Gateways
Assimilators
Nexi
Cannons (probably 1 at each base unless cannon rushing)
Forges (2)
Cybernetics (mostly 1 unless going for air)
Pylons and gateways feels like good candidates for D and E respectively (happy with gateway not being rapidfire) as they are the closest to the resting position of my fingers.
E + F or R + G also makes for a good combination for pressing Build Basic (thumb), holding shift (pinky) and then using the middle and index fingers for Nexus and then building a Nexus and 2 assimilators. E + F shifts the hand over slightly to the right from the starting position (but leaves us with a harder key to press for Gateways) while R + G requires a bigger shift. Both are just a tilt of the wrist though.
Both would need to be reviewed with the other races. For Terran you probably don't want to press Shift for building as you would select 3 (or more) workers, but you would want to Shift + Camera (potentially A or S with the ring finger) to jump back to a base and queue your workers back to mine (E + F sounds like a good combination if we look at ring finger in conjunction with Shift for jumping back to base location). For Zerg you wouldn't need the Shift combination.
All races could benefit from synergy with jump to location to build the bases, though I generally just click on the minimap (probably not as efficient, I only jump to my bases to rally workers back, defend drops or chrono something).
Adepts: Swapping them with Dark Templar definitely feels like it makes more sense.
New branch: To be 100% honest, I'm using my own heavily modified version of Grid (with control groups on ` - 5 and RFV). I have tried switching a to other hotkey layouts in the past (some of my own making), but I found that the transition was too painful and frustrating and macro felt slower so I stopped.
My reason for wanting to switch is because when I started out I heard "macro is king" so 1 - 4 is my production with the buildings just below the number keys (and R for my main army). This is quite easy and fast, partly because I am so used to it but also because I can just curl my fingers down). As I became better (and with LotV and all the different spell casters), I needed more army control groups so this ended up being RFV (A still being my attack hotkey). I started off-racing somewhere last year and found that a 3x3 grid isn't big enough for the other races. Also, with all the spells that Protoss has, this is becoming more of a shift of my hand (which has been fairly static for the few years before it) and making micro harder.
I'm thus looking for something which will make my control groups easier (having them on the two left most columns definitely is), but this makes my micro easier but at the expense of the ease of my macro. This is the frustration that I have and the solution I'm trying to find.
As I'm looking into tweaking my hotkeys and TheCore Lite being thought through a lot and having control groups as I think would be most optimal, it feels like a logical fit. I don't know if I will make the transition or not; I also don't get to play consistently (limited available time in a week), so spending months trying to learn a new hotkey setup takes away from playing the game and just having fun.
So, as I'm investigating things and trying to learn a new setup, I come across some frustrations and provide the feedback here to see if it makes sense and if it might benefit other people. If you think the feedback is valuable and can benefit others, please feel free to use it. But don't make the changes on my accord, I can definitely change the layout myself if I do have the need. My main focus also remains with improving my overall Protoss play, even if it means that it isn't optimal for the other races - I hover around Plat 1 / Diamond 3 with Random and I just want to get enough wins for that Dark Voice portrait, so that is more than good enough for me.
The basic building is there changed in such a way: – CC/Hatch/Nexus on G – Barracks/Roach/Gateway on E (non RapidFire) – Eng/Evo/Forge on C – Cybernetic Core on F
I would think about putting Barrack/Roach/Gateway on R ("bridge" cosmetics) and Gaz on E, so that the expansion would be "G + Shift + E + click"
(there has been no fundamental change, so that the minor version number has not been increased and an additional character "a" is used to distinguish this release from v2.2.5)
Hi NeoBlade, I'm now getting some time to answer now that the big week-end is over
Thanks for your video, it's a really nice introduction focusing on command placement efficiency and consistency over races. It seems that you've captured the "Shift queuing + camera recall" interaction (the expansion queued at the end of the video), as well as the "Control select all units of this type + append to group". You probably missed them for the first video due to strong habits driven by SC2 defaults :-D
It took me some time to identify all the aspects as well and mainly thanks to BeedeBdoo and MilExo
It seems that you're still missing those important aspects: – W is the default CC/Hatch/Nexus group, but you're not forced to press Ctl+W to add new base, there is an alias that is documented in the save base cam in an elegant and fluid Alt+Q+Tab+<key> way to append base to the group (Alt+Q), center the cam (Alt+Tab/CapsLock), before saving camera location (Alt+<key>); legacy alias is Alt+D – Q is part of the home row and is used for all productions, it's supposed to get all gateway/warpgate/robo/stargate in as shown by JaKaTaK in 10 control group Protoss video around 1:00 – Shift+W for Protoss and Terran is recommended to be used for rally point, it's really useful for Shift+Q+W mechanics: Shift+Q selects production facilities, Shift+W jump to rally point; recommended base cameras are A,S,Z,X – all groups are on the first 2 left columns of the keyboard, A and S would be recommended for Army and Casters, standard num row is pretty useless apart of 3 that is really useful for harass (same for cameras), due to their proximity to the home row and to the precision keys – a RapidFire warp-in example would have been nice for a protoss demo: all gateway/warpgate units production keys are RapidFire keys ;-) maybe trying warp-in pylon use case (Shift+Q+3)
I realize that I may have to spend some time to produce some compact video(s) à la JaKaTaK to present the main aspects of TheCore Lite
@MilExo: with the summer I tried some new basic building placement, according to your feedback, to get Nexus, Pylon, Assimilator on E,D,F
New version "TheCore LiteTest.SC2Hotkeys" only from QWERTY (feel free to ask if you need other keyboard layouts) – swap Nexus* and Forge* (Nexus on E, Forge on C) – Assimilator* from R to F – Roach Warren/cybernetic core/Bunker on R – Spine crawler on CapsLock
*: respective building for Terran and Zerg as well
Thanks bobo38, I'm downloading now and will give it a try this weekend.
Update: couldn't wait for the weekend to try it. I really like the change for protoss. Don't forget about the Gateways though since they are still on Caps (which sucks when you want to shift-queue a bunch of gateways with one worker):
Gateway: CapsLock is an heritage for TheCore Lite v1. After thinking it seems that reshuffling some basic building could make sense. Thinking loud: – forge/evo/engbay on CapsLock – gateway/roach/barracks on R (make sense for Roach, and Marauder) – use E for assimilator/extractor/raffinery
Not sure whether it sounds good for you… This would require to move to bigger version number (v2.3). I could work on some experimental branch if you wanted.
About the barracks/gateway on CapsLock, I think that the primary intention for the first release of TheCore Lite is like that: – CapsLock is one of the home keys for pinky, it's the reason why it was chosen as the secondary RapidFire key – with this pinky you easily reach Shift
There is probably a good reason… otherwise: – Barracks and Gateway (and Spine Crawler) would need to be put on C for easy simultaneous reach for Shift – EngBay and Forge and Evos should be move to another similar key (CapsLock ?)
If it's possible, frequently queue'd buildings should be taken off of the pinky. I haven't looked at the layout in a loooooooooooong time, is it possible?
EPT
Anyways, thx again. And of course you too JakaTaK 
