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[G] TheCore Lite - Advanced Keyboard Layout - Page 41

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bobo38
Profile Joined February 2016
France220 Posts
January 31 2017 17:29 GMT
#801
That's a nice setup you came with :D It looks like Darkgrid¹, with commands on left and groups on the outer edges

I guess your muscle memory has troubles with the groups on the two left columns of the keyboard and commands on right side; kind of upside down using TheCore Lite. After thinking, I find it comfortable and natural to press keys from left to right, group+command… using cameras while queuing is also pretty easy with group/cameras on left side.

What do you miss in your current setup ?
__________________________
¹ http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-strategy/257590-darkgrid-layout




Check out TheCore Lite last release:
https://github.com/bobo38/TheCoreLite/releases
MilExo
Profile Joined September 2011
South Africa139 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-01-31 18:15:57
January 31 2017 18:14 GMT
#802
There are a couple of things that I would like differently:

As the games expanded, so did the units. The 3x3 grid that I use isn't enough for off-racing anymore, especially when it comes to Zerg. Not my main concern, but one that is a bit inconvenient.

My army control is not ideal (army being mostly on R - V). When I started out the recommendation from everyone was to focus on macro. Having my production control groups on 1 - 4 with all the units directly underneath really made macro easy. At that time Protoss was mostly an a-move race, so having superior macro and playing with a death-ball worked out well enough.

However, with my skill increasing and with all the abilities in LotV, there is a bigger need to be able to micro different groups of units and be able to cast multiple spells quickly. Using things like previous and next group is very unreliable and inconsistent as different army compositions will give you different amount of time that you need to tab through the groups. With the faster bases it is also more important to have 2 army groups and MSC on separate hotkeys to defend.

With my resting position currently on 1, 2, E (I still use E for build worker), jumping to R, F, V isn't really ideal. Also, just like you, I do find it easier to roll my fingers from left to right. Being able to [Control group] + [Ability] + [Click] would be an ideal way to handle multiple groups and casters.

Looking at TheCore Lite, it really makes this army control very easy and I think it is an excellent layout for that. However, for typical macro actions it requires more hand movement than the setup I currently have. It is very quick to just curl your fingers downwards to build units, but having to move your hand to the right to build units/structures feels slower and not that natural.

So I guess I'm looking for a way to increase my ability to control my army without compromising my ability to macro efficiently.

Edit: I also moved my cameras to Shift 1 - 5 which really works well when shift queuing workers back to the base, etc.
BrentC
Profile Joined February 2017
5 Posts
February 01 2017 11:52 GMT
#803
New Starcraft 2 player here.

Was thinking of going with the Core Lite as my hotkeys because I am used to the WASD setup. What is the differences between the Core Lite and the Chameleon setups? Wanted to make sure before I start committing to one over the other.
MilExo
Profile Joined September 2011
South Africa139 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-02-01 12:30:18
February 01 2017 12:30 GMT
#804
Was thinking of going with the Core Lite as my hotkeys because I am used to the WASD setup. What is the differences between the Core Lite and the Chameleon setups? Wanted to make sure before I start committing to one over the other.


Chameleon basically has all of the control groups on the right (R,T,G, etc.) while TheCore Lite has them on the left (Q,W,A, etc.)

Personally I would recommend TheCore Lite for a couple of reasons:
  • It is easier to work from left to right with the control groups
  • You are used to WASD and the home keys for TheCore Lite would be Shift QWD
  • The original developer of Chameleon helped build TheCore and TheCore Lite
  • Chameleon is no longer actively being developed while bobo38 is still looking at TheCore Lite and constantly trying to improve it.

Welcome to the game! GLHF
bobo38
Profile Joined February 2016
France220 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-02-01 22:14:00
February 01 2017 21:54 GMT
#805
Hi BrentC

Welcome! MilExo summarized pretty well. Chameleon setup is outdated and unmaintained. Even TheCore has problem to maintain hotkey setup on the long run. Currently TheCore Lite is multiplayer/campaign clean (I've just seen that there is one unbound in Coop). You can also find it in several keyboard layout beside QWERTY.

I encourage you to look at:
– TheCore Lite github page
– TheCore Lite reference doc

Currently the keys are in freezing process, some changes are still to be expected:
– no more building built with V key (due to V used for target cancel that could ruin a building queue)
– control cameras (fun tip for spreading creep) are still not frozen
– maybe the terran production keys will get C back (this key is now used again for protoss)
– maybe Control+Alt used back for append non-steal (at the moment they are disabled)
Check out TheCore Lite last release:
https://github.com/bobo38/TheCoreLite/releases
bobo38
Profile Joined February 2016
France220 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-02-03 22:15:14
February 03 2017 22:09 GMT
#806
Finally TheCore Lite v2.1.0 is out. Download is possible on release page:
https://github.com/bobo38/TheCoreLite/releases/tag/v2.1.0

Hereafter is the release description:
General:
– unit production key harmonization between protoss and terran
– bridging method applied for unit production/research/building to have a better consistency
– compliant with big patch 3.8

Big changes to be absorbed with respect to v2.0:

– macro groups are back to Q and W, keeping Shift+Q+W mechanics
– cloak/decloak now on F/CapsLock (due to Infested Banshee), same for pulsar beam
– zerg keys morph is now F (previously E), speed research is now E (previously C), creep remains C
– reactor: C, techlab:E, lift:4, select builder:5 to free command card for unit production keys

New features:

– rapid fire static defence
– Stop = TargetCancel that could be useful for caster usage
– Shift+V = utility group (to be used for creep queen with queued creep tumor spawn)
– new Control camera approach (with more consistent creep tumor spread strategy)



Changes from v2.1-beta2:

– no more building on V due to utility group Shift+V recall and V as TargetCancel
– Ctrl+Alt is now modifier for append w/o steal (for caster/unittype fast selection group)
– back to previous simple ctl camera, with Space as alternate for creep tumor spread
– drop of ctl camera warp-in, it does not really make sense with group placement

Check out TheCore Lite last release:
https://github.com/bobo38/TheCoreLite/releases
bobo38
Profile Joined February 2016
France220 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-02-05 08:23:50
February 05 2017 07:43 GMT
#807
@MilExo

A combination of E, R, D (or E, F, D which I find is more comfortable while holding Shift) feels more natural and a bit faster.

A simple thing you can do that won't mess it to add F as assimilator alternate. Then you can use "C,D,F". After placing Nexus (C) and Pylon (D), C and D being really comfortable for that, you can easily queue place an assimilator with F that is the easiest key in reach.

Then you have a RapidFire "basic-build/assimilator/target", since both Space and F are used for "basic building". Would it make sense ?

F is already used for RapidFire defence for both Zerg (Spine Crawler) and Terran (Bunker), and does not make sense in a queue process as well due to terran and zerg building mechanisms. I need to check whether it would produce this bothering "conflict pop-up" or not in campaign/coop, and think about introducing inconsistencies between races.

Maybe I could add a section in the README.md with the small recommendable adjustments like that. I was also thinking about unbound exercices to get sane habbits, some examples:
– unbound "cancel" to force no errors, and get used to rightclick and V TargetCancel
– removal of Ctl+Tab "select all army" to make it more difficult to use, and force Ctl+Shift+Tab that chains well with unit type deselection
Check out TheCore Lite last release:
https://github.com/bobo38/TheCoreLite/releases
MilExo
Profile Joined September 2011
South Africa139 Posts
February 05 2017 12:14 GMT
#808
That sounds like a good idea bob038. I like seeing how we can do something efficiently and it is really awesome when your fingers just flow when performing most actions.

If you want to add something to the README.md, maybe add the sequence for the start-up drill in there. With my setup for example, I hold E when starting the game (build probe) with my thumb already on my thumb button (Ctrl) and my ring finger on 1. The moment the game starts I click my nexus, E triggers building the probe and then I press and hold Ctrl and click 1 and F1 (base camera) and then drag my mouse for F2 - F5 (my initial base cameras) before building my next probe.

I found not having something like that (with the relevant keys) quite frustrating when trying to learn the new setup. Unit hotkeys someone can read from the command card, but the rest currently comes from different parts of the readme and/or the pdf with the keymaps. Having the start sequence in a condensed place will allow someone to get started in an AI game relatively quickly.
bobo38
Profile Joined February 2016
France220 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-02-05 12:59:06
February 05 2017 12:50 GMT
#809
Yes a start sequence! I've added it to use cases:

https://github.com/bobo38/TheCoreLite/blob/master/README.md#use-case-start-sequence
Check out TheCore Lite last release:
https://github.com/bobo38/TheCoreLite/releases
bobo38
Profile Joined February 2016
France220 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-02-05 13:03:56
February 05 2017 13:03 GMT
#810
On February 05 2017 21:14 MilExo wrote:
I like seeing how we can do something efficiently and it is really awesome when your fingers just flow when performing most actions.

Talking about that aspect, I've discovered another TheCore feature: multiple alternate for select larvae so that from hatch group you just press the production key of the wanted unit. I'm adapting TheCore Lite for that at the moment: worker, overlords, zerglings, roaches, hydralisks, mutalisks and corruptors will be covered. v2.1.1 will come soon.
Check out TheCore Lite last release:
https://github.com/bobo38/TheCoreLite/releases
BrentC
Profile Joined February 2017
5 Posts
February 11 2017 03:31 GMT
#811
On February 02 2017 06:54 bobo38 wrote:
Hi BrentC

Welcome! MilExo summarized pretty well. Chameleon setup is outdated and unmaintained. Even TheCore has problem to maintain hotkey setup on the long run. Currently TheCore Lite is multiplayer/campaign clean (I've just seen that there is one unbound in Coop). You can also find it in several keyboard layout beside QWERTY.

I encourage you to look at:
– TheCore Lite github page
– TheCore Lite reference doc

Currently the keys are in freezing process, some changes are still to be expected:
– no more building built with V key (due to V used for target cancel that could ruin a building queue)
– control cameras (fun tip for spreading creep) are still not frozen
– maybe the terran production keys will get C back (this key is now used again for protoss)
– maybe Control+Alt used back for append non-steal (at the moment they are disabled)


Thanks for the advice. I have decided to play the 3 part campaign first.

Also, for TheCore Lite, what would you recommend regarding assigning control groups?
MilExo
Profile Joined September 2011
South Africa139 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-02-11 05:22:18
February 11 2017 04:44 GMT
#812
This might help for the control groups:

On January 29 2017 01:24 bobo38 wrote:

Control groups

About control group there is this reference video from JaKaTaK
Starcraft 2: How to use 10 Control Groups - Protoss

Each time I watch it I do notice some new detail, which is amazing for a 6 minutes video. The whole picture about selection priority helps a lot in group architecture. You can find the unit selection priority as .png files on the TheCoreLite github page, here for Protoss:
https://github.com/bobo38/TheCoreLite/blob/master/Images/LoTV_protoss.png

Another helpful document is this page of TheCore Archives, where you can find this suggestion for Protoss:
Show nested quote +
W Nexus/Forge
Q Gate/Star/Robo
A Army
S Templar
Z Harass
X Stalker
2 Mothership
3 Harass


– Q and W are no questions
– 2 for Mothership stuff is reasonably well for RapidFire Recall; I was thinking about using E for Photon overcharge, I tried to swap with Time Warp but misused it due to habbits. I realized that Photon Overcharge has also Space as RapidFire alternate that chains correctly from 2
– S for HTs (or ghost, or infestor) is convenient to reach all spells, you can put oracles as well with them
– 3 is perfect for warp prism or oracle harass

For the other groups it is tricky. Should A be melee or ranged ? if melee and ranged group follows it, A + D + LeftClick makes you whole army Attack-move with melee units always in front. This is a trade-off with the ranged units, whose 1st selected unit matters. There are valuables units beside Sentry as well:
– disruptors, if used, gain a lot to be 1st selectable units
– void rays to be prismatically aligned could melt armored units
– phoenixes that could help a lot with some RapidFire graviton beam

About the stalker group, if there is a something for cloned caster groups in TheCore Lite. But you can always Ctl+click a stalker, blink all stalkers that were selected and create a group on the fly.

My next tries will be:
– A melee
– S HTs + supporting oracles
– X ranged with selectable on top (chains reasonably well with C and Space)
– Z most useful cloned caster group depending on the circumstances (I should not forget to refresh it)
– 2 MsC/Mothership
– 3 harass warp prim or oracles

Shift+V is an alternate for Grave group (nobody will queue a Stop command). The main usage is for creep queens. But it could be used for the stalker group. There may be more polishing with it (making Ctl+V append to this group or Shift+Alt+V create non-steal). Holy shit! some new ideas are coming…

bobo38
Profile Joined February 2016
France220 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-02-11 17:25:49
February 11 2017 10:04 GMT
#813
TheCore Lite v2.2.0 was released. It is considered a major update due to major changes in zerg unit production keys. All races' unit production distribution is considered stable from now.

Additionally casters' spells were adapted to get standard RapidFire spell for "spell caster RapidFire split" using the V CancelTarget/Stop introduced in v2.1.

Detailed release notes are available here:
https://github.com/bobo38/TheCoreLite/releases/tag/v2.2.0

No more changes are on going at the moment
Check out TheCore Lite last release:
https://github.com/bobo38/TheCoreLite/releases
bobo38
Profile Joined February 2016
France220 Posts
February 12 2017 17:24 GMT
#814
Another slight change after the zerg unit reassigment: overlord is moved on E to benefit from W(+Space)+E chaining. Speed key is moved to CapsLock as well as Ultralisk.

The new version with complete release notes is available here:
https://github.com/bobo38/TheCoreLite/releases/tag/v2.2.1
Check out TheCore Lite last release:
https://github.com/bobo38/TheCoreLite/releases
carlcass
Profile Joined May 2011
Sweden2 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-05 23:33:15
March 05 2017 23:32 GMT
#815
Hey bobo! I would just like to thank you for your work.

I've played since WoL release on and off, starting with grid and then moving on to theCore in Hots. I wanted to get back into starcraft again but I now use a laptop and I've pretty much forgotten how to use theCore. Been playing around 10 games with theCore light and I feel I'm getting into it really quickly and it just feels great using the cameras and control groups. Thanks for revitalizing this game for me!

I'm also wondering if anyone has found any good hotkey setups so far? So far I'm doing A for main army and S for harass. Playing zerg btw, at a low level, haven't been diamond since hots
bobo38
Profile Joined February 2016
France220 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-06 18:25:25
March 06 2017 18:14 GMT
#816
Cool ! a zerg player for TheCore Lite ! I've been attempting to switch to zerg in the last weeks… Some minor changes are on going, and will be published with the patch 3.11.

Regarding the groups, I would start from the following basis, which is the original TheCore Lite suggestion:
Hatcheries W
Injecting Queens Q
Army A
Infestor S
Mutalisk Z
Baneling X
Swarm Host 2
Harass 3
source: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1v1gTY9suNstl6KoYQ0zIA8_dIBAJ9COmdtbQ1AEuxV4/edit?pref=2&pli=1#gid=56

I'm experimenting another macro group for melee, here is the principle:
– use group 1 for melee
– use Alt+D as alternate for recall group 1
– use Alt+Q as alternate for append to group W in place of Alt+D

The idea behind it to make "Alt+D+release Alt" to select melee group and order some RapidFire Attack command. I comes with ranged group following melee. I'm not sure whether I will merge it within TheCore Lite.

Edit:
Don't hesitate to give feedback about the tricks inside TheCore Lite or any idea of improvement.
Check out TheCore Lite last release:
https://github.com/bobo38/TheCoreLite/releases
B.L.u.B.
Profile Joined April 2010
Germany36 Posts
March 09 2017 11:14 GMT
#817
just coming back to sc2 and thought about learning new hotkeys since i had so mutch time off, well i main zerg and i am not sure if i installed the hotkeys correct but is it intended that the hotkeys for where my units have to go are so far away from the rest ? Any general information how to start learning the new hotkeys and how to group my stuff as zerg

Thanks
bobo38
Profile Joined February 2016
France220 Posts
March 09 2017 19:03 GMT
#818
On March 09 2017 20:14 B.L.u.B. wrote:
[...] but is it intended that the hotkeys for where my units have to go are so far away from the rest ?


With QWERTY, Attack is D and Move is H. In the original TheCore Lite from JaKaTaK's skydrive, Move is M. Is your Move command bound to M ? The latest maintained release is here (make sure that you pick the right keyboard layout):
https://github.com/bobo38/TheCoreLite/releases/tag/v2.2.1

Reading this page, you can find some valuable infos:
https://github.com/bobo38/TheCoreLite/blob/v2.2.1/README.md
There is a "Ressources" section where you could find a .pdf

Viel Spaß !
Check out TheCore Lite last release:
https://github.com/bobo38/TheCoreLite/releases
B.L.u.B.
Profile Joined April 2010
Germany36 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-09 19:24:15
March 09 2017 19:21 GMT
#819
Thank you for the quick and helpful answer

I updated to the latest version you linked, back when I played I used the standard keys and was used to use the "set rally points" hotkeys for my hatch. In this Version it is on 9 and 0 witch is quite far away. Is that intended since i can just klick on the ground to set rally points or is there something i am not understanding?
bobo38
Profile Joined February 2016
France220 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-09 20:20:53
March 09 2017 20:13 GMT
#820
You can "set rally point" of hatchery with right click:
– on the ground for army rally point
– on the mineral line for worker rally point

I pushed them out to get a consistent terran unit production command card in all campaign/coop contexts: the right click possibility is probably better to use. In version 2.0.0, they were set to G (worker) and Y (army). Now G is used as an alternate for "select larvae" to chain it with Corruptor production.
Check out TheCore Lite last release:
https://github.com/bobo38/TheCoreLite/releases
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