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Nyast
Belgium554 Posts
- shakuras, cause zerg can ping/pong between attacking at the natural or at the third depending on where you're not  - antiga: cause taking the fourth is next to impossible, and zerg can easily take the golds - condemned: cause the fourth is next to impossible, and the map is so huge and areas all accesible so that your slow mobility of air units works against you ( you'll be caught off-guard and forced to recall before you even reach zerg's bases ). | ||
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Fogetaboudit
United States232 Posts
I think the best map is Shakuras or Ohana. I'm really starting to like Shakuras because you can just cannon up both ramps, sit between the natural and third and just go where they send most of their army. | ||
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Anomek
Poland152 Posts
Condemned is hell for 4th true. On antiga it's impossible to deny zerg's 4th base on gold, which also make things harder. Do you expand on Antiga to gold, or take other natural as 4th? Isn't distance between 2nd and 3rd base on TDA too big to cover? Btw, I stay on one gateway and this way i can put 4-5 cannons on natural and 8+ at 3rd. Hydras don't stand a chance. Zealots sounds weak because they will also tank hits from hydras that are anyway too far away to attack anything else.Zerg rarely get perfect concave. How about daybreak? Have anyone tried to play skytoss on this map? Probably the best 3rd would be base in the middle, by the watch tower. | ||
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ThaReckoning
United States197 Posts
vs hydras throw down 3-4 gates and constantly warp in zealots while you get your third up. zealots tank a lot of damage so your air can kill everything I've never actually had to do this at all, I find with good decision making/positioning with the air units + mothership, I can crush hydra play. I get a LOT of cannons though, and stay on 2 stargates for a long time. The build usually goes like this: FFE 3rd gas while core is building 2 sentries, 2 stargates asap 2 voids, 6-8 phoenii mommaship and third by 10:30 voids cannons at third attack ups from cycore, then when third is saturated, 2 more stargates + start armor upgrades (+3 should be done), tc and shield ups get tons of voids and 4-6 carriers + mommaship, move around and be scary etc if game goes super late get ground attack ups and tons of archons/HT and 6-8 stargates win because you're a bauss Love this build. | ||
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saladToss
United States75 Posts
Or you can harass their third or make them take the far one which you can send zealots to all game. It seems you guys don't really incorporate zealots in to the build. I find they are very useful distractions to buy time to set up new expansions. And you will need the 4 gateways later for the high templar. I go 2 gate and then use the additional 2 + a 2nd cyber core to set up a wall at my third. The trick to taking a 4th on condemned and antiga is taking another main base and putting a sentry + 6 cannons at the top of the ramp. | ||
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Nyast
Belgium554 Posts
On July 02 2012 19:00 Fogetaboudit wrote: I think the best map is Shakuras or Ohana. I'm really starting to like Shakuras because you can just cannon up both ramps, sit between the natural and third and just go where they send most of their army. Where do you put your mothership ? Between the nat and third too ? It seems risky since it's not under cannons, and if you put it on the natural and get attacked at your third, it's too slow to come back quick enough | ||
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Rimak
Denmark434 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + Like antiga very much I actually, at close positions, especially if we are, establish center and cannon it very hard, you usually can. ![[image loading]](http://www.yodaspeak.co.uk/yoda-small1.gif) | ||
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-MoOsE-
United States236 Posts
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trbot
Canada142 Posts
On July 03 2012 09:41 -MoOsE- wrote: does anyone have a replay of when the z goes for a hydra ling all in on you. I cant seem to hold this "When does it hit?" seems to be the most relevant question... and do you have enough cannons? When I get hit with hydra allin, it usually comes at ~15 mins, and walks into 12 cloaked cannons, ~8 voids and ~2 carriers at my third. It usually goes pretty poorly for the zerg. I'm not sure how lings would make this push much different, except drawing cannon fire... But then the hydra army would be considerably weaker, no? | ||
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-MoOsE-
United States236 Posts
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piroko139
United States261 Posts
On July 03 2012 12:22 -MoOsE- wrote: Yeah mabye I just need to work on my build order. (is the one of the replay in the main post still the good build to use). Also, how do you deal with the stephano push that just snipes the third over and over so you cant take it. They then tech up to infesotrs to deal with the stargates. Mothership deals with both. Roaches can't shoot up, and in most cases, don't bring Overseers. In the case they do, Void Ray targetting will solve that issue. Once Infestors hit the field, it's a matter of Recall use at key times, and forcing the Zerg to defend. | ||
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saladToss
United States75 Posts
On July 03 2012 12:22 -MoOsE- wrote: Yeah mabye I just need to work on my build order. (is the one of the replay in the main post still the good build to use). Also, how do you deal with the stephano push that just snipes the third over and over so you cant take it. They then tech up to infesotrs to deal with the stargates. Just make sure your void rays are flying overhead and you cancel as many things as possible, then play for the split map end game scenario. They will run out of resources long before you do, then inevitably complain that they outplayed you all game long and still lost toss OP. | ||
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Wasihasi
Germany36 Posts
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Fogetaboudit
United States232 Posts
On July 03 2012 16:34 Wasihasi wrote: I have extrem problems with Zergs, who goes Mutas/corruptors - like lots of mutas and 10 or so corruptors. They just fly to the different part of my base and run away as soon as they see my fleet. If i chase with the phoenixes they sepparate my army and then kill or try to kill phoenixes... Lost like 4 in row to this Yeah its a messy game that focuses a lot on micro and positioning. I've definitely lost games to this as well, but I can always find mistakes in my play when I lose. Having lots of cannons at each mineral line really help to chip away at the muta count, constantly being active with your Phoenix trying to pick off Mutas is important as well. Mutas move faster so normally you can snipe them before Corruptors get their volleys off, but yeah, its a bit of a mess. Constantly A-move your Mothership/voidray/carrier ball at their air fleet, and do your best to zone it out while protecting your mining. Then keep the Phoenix on another hotkey and do your best to trade/repel Mutas. Stay patient, especially on splitmap maps. Mutas are SO inefficient, they will never trade and kill any of your gas units. All they do is harass, accept the harass and understand it's okay to lose some probes and cannons, just do your best to fight and stabilize as best you can. Eventually, they have to come up with a solution for your army and switch into Infestor/Corruptor. | ||
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trbot
Canada142 Posts
On July 03 2012 16:34 Wasihasi wrote: I have extrem problems with Zergs, who goes Mutas/corruptors - like lots of mutas and 10 or so corruptors. They just fly to the different part of my base and run away as soon as they see my fleet. If i chase with the phoenixes they sepparate my army and then kill or try to kill phoenixes... Lost like 4 in row to this I just add high temps with storm... works for me! | ||
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saladToss
United States75 Posts
The most solid counter to this strategy is in my opinion a base race style with mass zerglings and then saving their infestor / corrupter force to fight with their queens and spores at a holdout. The cannons will always pay off. put them around your nexuses, stargates, and choke points. shield upgrades benefit cannons as well. and late game, put a high templar or two (so they can emergency morph in to an archon if need be) at your important points to storm with the cannons. so strong. | ||
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trolldrew
Afghanistan16 Posts
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trbot
Canada142 Posts
On July 03 2012 17:39 saladToss wrote: cannons in your mineral lines. very important. The most solid counter to this strategy is in my opinion a base race style with mass zerglings and then saving their infestor / corrupter force to fight with their queens and spores at a holdout. The cannons will always pay off. put them around your nexuses, stargates, and choke points. shield upgrades benefit cannons as well. and late game, put a high templar or two (so they can emergency morph in to an archon if need be) at your important points to storm with the cannons. so strong. Yep =)... This is so true. I tend to drop 10-14 cannons at each expo. Lings do NOTHING. | ||
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Adonminus
Israel543 Posts
Then there's also the problem between fast hts or fast carriers, fast hts can be good vs corruptors and queens while carriers are better against hydralisks and decent against infestors too. | ||
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-MoOsE-
United States236 Posts
On July 03 2012 20:29 Adonminus wrote: Through all my experience with this build, you need to do damage with your double stargate void rays so that he won't be able to do heavy mid game pressures like hydra queen corruptor for example. Then there's also the problem between fast hts or fast carriers, fast hts can be good vs corruptors and queens while carriers are better against hydralisks and decent against infestors too. I thought that the build order for this build was like a 8 min third off of your 1st vray? Drop down an extra stargate then and cannon up the third and nat. Are you doing double stargate 2 base pressure into third? | ||
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