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On April 27 2012 19:02 BurningRanger wrote:I tried the Silver build yesterday (cos I'm still in Silver). Practiced it a few times and went on ladder with it, attacked at 10-ish minutes into a siegetank-line... well... you can guess the outcome yourself.  Yes I could have had maybe 10 more marines, if I executed it better, but the outcome would have been the same. [...] Any comments or ideas?
You are right. However, it is not a law that you have to attack-move into the siege line. The 10-minute-push is meant to
a) outright kill your opponent, if he has less stuff than you or
b) provide a safe-window to land your third and increase production.
In your scenario, pull back your army when you see he has too many tanks for you and go with option b. Attack at a later time when you have more marauders and better upgrades.
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I'm on the gold part right now and I'm trying to improve the consistency. I'm in silver but I'm facing high gold/low plats now. But I've noticed I'm still missing scv's or upgrades land later etc. One weird consequence I've noticed is that I'm a lot less supply blocked and my abillity to keep my money low (even after the push) has improved. It's nowhere near impressive but I can feel the improvement.
Also a good habit to get into is when you move out (against any race). Just load up one medivac and try to time your push with the drop. Sometimes it gets shutdown but I've had a good results.
All in all: thank you, I've really improved.
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On April 27 2012 18:23 Filter wrote:Well I just played a guy that got 75 probes in 11 minutes, I was pretty impressed by that  I still need to really play around with toss to get a good feel for safely making probes. I need to crack an account into masters over a weekend with toss to start the series though. I did beat a diamond toss in an obs game pvp by fast expanding though..
Can you upload a Rep mb?
So we can try and figure out what they can be. 75@11 is pretty huge.
Oh and thank you so much for your efforts.
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I'm a Platinum Toss with a second account, so I figured I would try this out to see how I could translate this over to Protoss.
Got my second account demoted, and here are the benchmarks I'm running at right now:
expansion at 3:40-3:45 (when I first started this, I discovered it is possible to get it down as early as 3:30, but you will get yourself supply blocked)
at 10 minutes:
60-63 probes
10 zealots
6 stalkers
4 gateways
1 robo
+1 attack done
105-110 seconds to +1 armor
100 food total (immortal in production and within 1-2 seconds of being finished at 10 minutes, making up the missing food)
I've only gotten about 10 games in, so I feel like this can be improved/refined even further, but I figure it's a starting point for everyone else who is curious. One major point of improvement is I'm building my forge before my second gateway to get +1 attack sooner. I think I can delay this til after my 2nd gate, and still get +1 attack in time. Seems worthwhile to defend against early pushes, especially since +1 armor isnt going to ALSO finish in time. I could also spend a chrono on the robo to have the immortal out for the push.
I'll try to post up continued results as I have them.
replay available of my most recent game here (please keep in mind I'm only a Plat level player):
Example Toss Bronze-to-Masters
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Hm an early forge can get you in +2 position@~11min If you can get 40-50 food of troops with +2 it is huge.
But this is not the point of the thread, main is to get a solid build with benchmarks to get your macro moving up.
Thx for the option, now let's get is improved. =)
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Absolutely, what I posted was just meant as a starting point for some (hopefully better) other folks to build on 
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Filter: thanks for making this very useful resource available!
By the way, I see a lot of people trying out the bronze/silver league drills and saying "this doesn't work in my league because of blah blah." Remember, this isn't really about winning games. It's about improving your macro. If you hit the benchmarks but lose the game, congratulate yourself. If you win the game but don't hit the benchmarks, forget about the victory and keep practicing! Once you can reliably hit the benchmarks, you can start thinking about build orders and army compositions and you'll be doing a lot better than before because of your improved fundamentals.
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Well i've tried something, i'm going to still practice more, but it is possible to get
~60 probes @10min
2 Immortals (3rd on the way)
+1 upgrades (+2 @ 10:30)
~15 chargelots (maybe more)
~6 stalkers
but i'm noob so it's better someone from masters will get it precise.
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hey Rimak, do you have a replay? I'd love to see the specifics
when do you take your expo?
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This series is just awesome. Here's my testimonial:
In just 2 practice sessions of about 3 hours each (I'm working on vids 3 and 4), I'm hitting my 50 scvs 3:45 nat consistently, 100+ food with stim and 2 medivacs at 10 mins. I'm currently working on my gas timing so I can hit the 6:50 factory. Hitting 200 food at 15 mins aprox.
As a comparison, I timed myself to 200 food 2 weeks ago and my best time was around 17:45. I started to play Starcraft 2 mid march this year. My first RTS. I've always liked the genre but had not played it since the late 90s because I tried to play Age of Empires and sucked so hard the trauma lasted until now.
The best part of this series is the benchmarks. Measured improvement is key. I'm also a musician so this concept resonates (lol) with me. With no metronome it's almost impossible to make any sort of decent progress.
So, a big THANK YOU to FilterSC for helping me push it to the limit (which by the way I play in a loop while practicing).
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On April 28 2012 01:30 FilthyRake wrote:
hey Rimak, do you have a replay? I'd love to see the specifics
when do you take your expo?
at ~3.40
It's basically
Pylon
Gateway
Pylon
Zealot
Nexus
Pylon
Assim
Core
Forge
and I'm still thinking about the rest.
This build is not safe at all XD.
Maybe we should consider Huk's 20 food build...
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Okay a little update HuK's 20 food build fits really good.
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/HuK's_1gate_FE_(PvT)
With the difference that at 23 food i put a gate and a forge for grades.
You should get to 5gate-robo in total.
At 10 minute mark what i can get (but remember that my macro suck)
55 probes (u can get 60 EZ, just do't skip like i didi =))
13 Zealot (got 2 time supply block so it should be 16+)
1 sentry (2-3 should be fine)
3 Immortals
5 Stalker (maybe more)
Also i see it possible to squeeze charge in this.
I'm thinking of fast 4 gas and getting blink-immortal.
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ahh, I was going pylon gate pylon zealot pylon nexus
because if I didnt build the 3rd pylon before my nexus, I was getting supply blocked, since I'm chrono-boosting probes
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We had a very similar thread a few weeks back, showing how important macro is
It had a stunning result, skyrocketed me to gold, but I didn't have much chance to play ever since
I can't wait to check these guides at home to see if I belong to gold or not
Edit: just checked my in the other thread post:
at the 10 minute mark I had stim, concussive shells, +1 weapon, 15 marines, 6 marauders, and 2 medivacs
I don't know about SCV-s, but this seems like a decent result from a noob like me
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On April 27 2012 21:17 Rimak wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 18:23 Filter wrote:On April 27 2012 17:38 Rimak wrote:
Any news or ideas on toss benchmarks? Well I just played a guy that got 75 probes in 11 minutes, I was pretty impressed by that I still need to really play around with toss to get a good feel for safely making probes. I need to crack an account into masters over a weekend with toss to start the series though. I did beat a diamond toss in an obs game pvp by fast expanding though.. Can you upload a Rep mb? So we can try and figure out what they can be. 75@11 is pretty huge. Oh and thank you so much for your efforts.
http://drop.sc/168090
The game is also recorded with commentary and replay analysis, it'll be up as the third game of episode 15 whenever that finishes uploading.
On April 27 2012 19:26 Dvriel wrote:
Hi,Filter!
Yesterday faced Platinum T on EU Server.He used almost same BO,but after 2nd rax,took 2 gases,then 3rd rax and put addons on every rax(2 reactor+lab)and go for shield first and mass marines.Later when possible factory+starport and ebay.so he massed marines and got double as I,went for 10 min attack and won.Just cant stop it if i make Marauders and he begann making marines much sooner and much quicker,with his later tech.So,how do u stop this?Hes BO seems to reach everything much sooner,only stim later.and come just at 10:00-10:30 min with his attack.
If you watch Episode 13 you can see a double upgrade style that gets everything marine related quickly including 1/1, 2/2. In TvT I like to stick to marines until my opponent gets tanks because you can have such heavy map control. I'll get tanks if he's getting a lot of them, but otherwise I don't bother. Episode 14/15 also have 3 TvT's in them for demonstration games/replay analysis.
I do prefer combat shield in TvT, but it's not too hard to get both stim and combat quickly. Some pro's will even get double gas after their first barracks to start the upgrades ultra fast, and still get a fact/starport at similar timing.
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thank you so much filter, im heading to a tourney this weekend and over the past few days ive improved my macro a TON. i really though i was fine but when i look back just missing a second or two on those scv cycles messed me up quite a bit. please keep posing videos
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Very good stuff here. Thanks! I am switching from Toss and was looking buld orders when I saw this.... so much better than a build order..
BENCHMARKS!!!! YESSSSS!!!
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I really would love if someone could make a guide like this Zerg based, I understand that it can be applied to all races, but Zerg is so different from Terran. All units come from larvae, injects, overlord placement, creep spread, drone production VS unit production, etc. it just seems difficult for me to adapt the concept to such a different style of play.
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These are really helpful. Thanks for putting in so much effort and sharing with us nubs, we really appreciate it.
They so much fun as well!
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will this work if you are a zerg player? are the examples basically the same?
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EPT
