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On July 02 2012 06:45 Snoodles wrote:
Now that the zerg strategy is pretty popular, it begs the question: As a terran, how do you scout/beat it? I've done a terran 10 minute timing against a zerg 10 minute roach timing and lost. Granted, I didn't feel bad because I'm glad filtersc has raised the bar for everyone.
In his scouting video, he mentions scanning zerg around the 8 minute mark (don't quote me on the exact time, check the video again!) to look for the lair. unless he hides his rw you should see it with this scan. However, I feel that's probably irrelevant. It's simply a battle of who has the better macro. MMM is fine against roaches (I've been owned by MMM using mass roach). Have a look at the replay, and compare his benchmarks to the ones listed in the Zerg videos, and If he got closer to them than you do with your Terran benchmarks, that's probably why you lost 
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Thank you so much for this guide Filter! To echo what has been mentioned by many others, the focus on mechanics and macro has been really helpful - the benchmarks are great. Knowing that I can hit the silver benchmarks pretty consistently in practice, even if it tends to be a lot harder in ladder games, does a lot to negate the dreaded ladder anxiety too. Every game, win or lose, is a chance hit the benchmarks, or see how close I can get after having made a mistake or been attacked. Losing to better players when I am doing close to my best doesn't seem so bad =]
Its kinda shocking to see how easily disrupted my macro is at this point - I've fallen behind in games because a probe/drone just walked around in my base before I started the second depot for the wall-in. But playing on the ladder is really fun now! Its like, "Oh! - I wasn't making enough workers, so I wasn't mining enough money (let alone spending it), and I didn't have enough production, so I didn't have enough army! No wonder I was having a bad time!"
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2nd edit
I suppose this can just be ignored, as my play is already improving leaps and bounds. For whatever reason putting it on paper (err post) and reading it let it set in better than just noticing it and telling myself, for whatever reason. I suppose it's one thing to just think x is what you need to do - but when you take the time to look it through and really analize it, rather than skimming it in moving thoughts in your head, it just seems to weight itself a bit more. But again if it wasn't for this thread/these videos that wouldn't have happened, so thanks again!
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(original posts below)
Thanks for this, was exactly what I was looking for in terms of execution of mechanics and a well rounded adaptable starting strategy. Silver zerg here just trying to get the mechanics of the timing down against very easy AI so I can just focus on production right now. -
Would appreciate if some folks might give this replay a look: http://drop.sc/214210
(needed benchmarks: 35 drones at 6min with 4 gas and an evo going up, lair, second evo, and roach warren going up at 7, 60 drones at 8min, 150 food and +1+1 done at 11min, I really want to be able to start getting roaches out/stop drone production if necessary at 8)
What I can self observe after looking at this.. in short, 18-26 starts getting me backed up, I have time to recover before 6, but if I don't pull 6 off smoothly then the timings at 7 get behind as well, roaches get late.. I march them out once they have +1+1 and +2+2 gets going.. this seems to be happening around 11:30
-18 to 26 food is a bad time for me. My first queen starts being made when my 2nd OL pops out at 18, At about 23-24 Both my second hatch and first queen get done and I have to larva, transfer workers, start queen on other hatch, start 3rd queen on main hatch, and place down a spine crawler with one of the transferring drones. (transferring is something I'm having issues with but getting better) My big issue here is also locating when to begin the next overlord, 24 is getting me blocked at 26 but have mineral issues in the middle of all that if I start much earlier.
-couple spots some bad micro, selecting/moving drones etc.. caught it quite fast though
-Somewhere in here I need to make at least 1 zerg and send him to watch for a pushout, again trouble finding the timing with above.
-hot damn I actually hit the 6Min benchmark with actual drones on the line/being produced
-gas is actually a bit after 6, think I need to actually select the workers and get them going to the gas before 6 actually hits
-actually missed one of the gas at 6min, recovered about 20 secs later
-___missed a important set of injects here, slow on the one at about 5:30 or so, and throwing down gas/sorting workers got the next one really late_____
-am I not transferring enough workers over? by 8 min my second seems awfully low on drones, seems most get made at first, some games I'm not even having enough to fill the 2 gas on the natural when it's done
-looks like at 7 my 4th queen pops out
-forgetting to creep connect the bass
-second evo is a little late, warren and lair get started at about 7:40, almost a minute late. Here 3 ovies pop out so I'm concerned about getting blocked with all the larva production from the queens, probably what caused the late start
- 54 drones working with one in production at 8 minutes, about 5 short of the mark
-- at 11 minutes I'm 130/132 food, at 11:30 upgrades finish and roaches march to war
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I guess just writing that stuff down helped, here's a better replay. http://drop.sc/214218
Started my 3rd ovie at 23, seemed to work ok. Forgot to put first evo down at 6 so put both down at 7 - my timing on getting gas at 6 has to get better, it's getting done at 6:30 screwing up my 7min timings. Still not on the ball with the injects during this time either, after that though I'm near perfect with them
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Played a game vs the comp, hit the bronze benchmarks!
Played a ladder game, met zerg, the guy goes banelings, sad panda, I keep on chugging out marines and a-moving across the map and wins :D
It felt so stupid but it's easy to see the point in doing it during a game like that.
P.S. He baneling busted me at 9.30 :@@@@ my army of marines was so glorious 
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So you guys who've gotten promoted out of Bronze following these, about how long would you say it takes usually? Do I have to be at the top of my division for some time before it happens(I usually stay in the top 3 as of late), or if I beat enough Silvers/Golds will I get promoted? Stupid questions, I know, but I've been in Bronze for far too long and want to get the hell out..
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On July 06 2012 12:09 Caesar wrote:
So you guys who've gotten promoted out of Bronze following these, about how long would you say it takes usually? Do I have to be at the top of my division for some time before it happens(I usually stay in the top 3 as of late), or if I beat enough Silvers/Golds will I get promoted? Stupid questions, I know, but I've been in Bronze for far too long and want to get the hell out..
it shoudln't take super long, but you really shouldn't worry about your league man. your mmr is really where your skill level is at, so just look at the league of whoever your facing in most of your games and you'll get a good idea of what league's skill level you're really at.
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If you consistently playing players a ladder on top of you and win, you will be promoted to the next ladder fairly quickly. It also coincidence that you will be landing the top of your ladder as well.
The goal is not just about getting promoted (yes it does feel good to get promoted)..but like this post, the focus is on your fundamentals. If you are good in mechanics you will win more and get promoted. Focus on just a win might not get you better mechanics. You can cheese, all-ins, rush, which might not help you get better on your mechanics.
Also play lots. That help a lot in learning from your own mistakes. Timing of things. And also what's the best counter or attack style.
On July 06 2012 12:09 Caesar wrote:
So you guys who've gotten promoted out of Bronze following these, about how long would you say it takes usually? Do I have to be at the top of my division for some time before it happens(I usually stay in the top 3 as of late), or if I beat enough Silvers/Golds will I get promoted? Stupid questions, I know, but I've been in Bronze for far too long and want to get the hell out..
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is there a similiar guide for protoss race?(with benchmarks and builds getting harder in each part) i found this very helpful for new terran players but my protoss friend says(who is bronze) "we cant mass zealots and win" "T is OP" and stuff.
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On July 06 2012 17:55 Isualin wrote:
is there a similiar guide for protoss race?(with benchmarks and builds getting harder in each part) i found this very helpful for new terran players but my protoss friend says(who is bronze) "we cant mass zealots and win" "T is OP" and stuff.
As BigRedDog said in the post above yours, the goal of this guide is to establish good fundamentals, so if your friend pics a build they like, only does that one build (in every match-up) and tries to hit the same building placement/warp gate research finish times and probe/army supply counts at X minutes as a pro doing the same build he'll be out of bronze in no time.
I play random and am focusing on Filter's Benchmarks for T and Z and simply do MC's 1 gate expand when I get P. This is a PvT build, and it's pretty much an auto lose to any well executed 1 base PvP play, but most people in the lower leagues don't do "well executed" anything, and blindly doing this build got me to diamond, and I still win a lot of PvPs with it.
I picked this build because I need to focus on my basic macro skills more than anything else (my probe/scv production still really sucks, even after getting to diamond, i rarely hit filter's silver benchmarks for T), but mechanically, even a 4 gate is great practice if you focus on doing it well. The key is to never be happy with sloppy play, even if you win, if your warp ins are a few seconds late, it's not good enough, or you have more (or less) than 20 probes, it's not good enough, etc etc.
That being said, I would be surprised if massing zealots off 2 bases while never stopping worker production and keeping your money low wouldn't work in bronze. and if it doesn't, adding in gases and massing stalkers definitely would.
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Thank you Filter for being so thorough.
When I watched your videos (and I've watched all of them), I suddenly acquired a more positive outlook towards the game.
The attitude, the guidance, and the effort you put in really has influenced me to want to play better, and also to become a better player in general - with the clarity to find my own set of values, I hope to grow as much as you have.
I've transferred the initial 2 videos into my play and realized it is my core; I enjoy having a gargantuan economy early game.
In fact, as I went through all the videos, I also realized that the first two directed towards bronze players is all that I needed.
*I'm ranked Diamond, but I actually feel like Gold..
I used to be lost.. frustrated with my anxiety to 1v1 (in fact, I always knew what I wanted to do.. but I shake from too much adrenaline; I miss queen injects 'cause I can't keep my hand steady, lol - it just really snowballs very quickly from there).
I get so much adrenaline from ZvZ's that I've decided to just throw those games altogether (as in, leave immediately).
Hehe, no doubt getting massively demoted after placement =S
Right now, I'm researching how to face my fear. I recently found a written ZvZ guide that is also well done, and I feel I should share it with other Z's in the community:
http://raa-media.nl/blog/starcraft2/zvz-alpha-omega#plan
Anyway, enough talk about myself; I just wanted to give you a lot of thanks and thought it would show my genuine appreciation if I gave you a peek of what was on my mind.
Thanks again.
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I discovered this thread and Filter's video's yesterday and I have to say that they are quite refreshing. I am instantly a fan and love that you have been able to create a solid foundation for anyone to build upon.
I am a Protoss player and am anticipating with great excitement a "bronze to masters" Protoss series from you in the near future. I hope you have the ambition to help us Protoss like you have your fellow Terran and also Zerg players. Keep up the fantastic work and I hope your series continues to get the recognition it deserves.
Thanks again Filter!
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Anyway to vote for a sticky?- I am so happy I stumbled upon this as a new RTS player last week. Decided to learn Zerg as I already had to omany bad habits as a Terran and learning a brand new race the right way off the bat keeps me in line. Went to Silver first time logging in to my oceanic account after practicing the build. My timings fell off tho as I played 3 ZvZs in a row and all 3 rushed me with Zerglings.
Went 2-1 in it as the two wins they rushed before I expanded and I saw it coming, Third game got rushed after expanding before the spines completed. Also didnt realise the spine was his he made and I pulled my units from attacking it wondering why they kept attacking my own spine, and they died -_- (yup im a noob)
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Reafa, you and I are in the same boat. I am a Protoss player, but decided to use Filter's tactics and path of development to see how well I can develop as Terran( since I never play T). I think this thread does need a sticky for sure! Hoping there's going to be a Protoss development path by him. I can't say enough about this series.
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This is a sublime compilation. You've helped me in more ways than one, and most importanly I am enjoying playing SC again I've started 1v1ing, previously of which I was one of those too scared to lose to try. Now though, I play and I look forward to seeing the replay even, to see where I went wrong. Hopefully can improve!
I'm just wondering though, I happened to stumble across this thread (luckily) and went through the videos and stuff in an offhand manner and sort of lost track of what I watched and what I didn't. Now I want to go through again properly - but I am a little confused. The pirst post here, has episodes and timings, but sometimes the episodes are combined? In the YouTube channel, there are videos for each episode?
What do I follow? They're probably just the same, but I remember getting confused a tad before, so thought I'd just double check.
Thanks!
PS: I'm a little jelous that you started the zerg series (reading the comments, it seems it's amazing too!). How dare you teach zerg like you've taught us????
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On July 06 2012 12:09 Caesar wrote:
So you guys who've gotten promoted out of Bronze following these, about how long would you say it takes usually? Do I have to be at the top of my division for some time before it happens(I usually stay in the top 3 as of late), or if I beat enough Silvers/Golds will I get promoted? Stupid questions, I know, but I've been in Bronze for far too long and want to get the hell out..
What happened to me was that I was in 1st place for quite some time. I had to win maybe 70%-75% of my games IIRC. I felt like I had to win way too many games consecutively to just get out of bronze. Once you hit top 25 bronze or something around there, I would personally move into silver or gold vids and builds. Note that I am a terran player, anyways, the "filter bronze mass marines" build doesn''t start to work at around top bronze I feel, so you'll have to move out of that build out of necessity and try out the filter expand builds from his silver or gold videos. Usually the 10 min timing push will kill bronzies and some silvers, but in the case you don't kill them the first time and since you aren't at filter's level this is likely, filter's gold build for terran and zerg is a great model for when to attack. If you don't kill them the first time, sometimes it's just a good idea to fall back because a lot of bronze and silver LOVE to want you to make a mistake so they build too many stationary defense or tech up way too early while ignoring SCVs, go back to your base, tech up, go for +2 +2, and move out when they're 75% done. Remember, the ten or 11 minute attack is a TIMING push that filter has taught you, because when you move out, speed is done, or stim is done, or your upgrades are done or nearly done.
When I did get out of bronze, the system put me at #25 silver. There's a chance that your MMR is just better than some very fortunate silver player who deserves to get demoted. It seems you have to be above and beyond your own league to get out of it. I had to prove to the system that I was better than a whole lot of silver jobbers.
gl hf, keep fighting!
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On July 06 2012 17:55 Isualin wrote:
is there a similiar guide for protoss race?(with benchmarks and builds getting harder in each part) i found this very helpful for new terran players but my protoss friend says(who is bronze) "we cant mass zealots and win" "T is OP" and stuff.
tell him to mass blink stalkers then, i guess the concept is the same, if you outmacro your opponnent in lower leagues you are going to win no matter what.
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This guide is amazing, thanks for all the hard work that it was put into it Filter, also i just wanted to say that Canada is amazing!!
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On July 10 2012 15:32 XenOsky- wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2012 17:55 Isualin wrote:
is there a similiar guide for protoss race?(with benchmarks and builds getting harder in each part) i found this very helpful for new terran players but my protoss friend says(who is bronze) "we cant mass zealots and win" "T is OP" and stuff. tell him to mass blink stalkers then, i guess the concept is the same, if you outmacro your opponnent in lower leagues you are going to win no matter what.
I think its harder to win with protoss with such a strategy. Consider a difference between 2zealots and 1 sentry and 2 stalkers. Which army wins will be very much so dependant on position and terrain and also what the opponent has. Until colossus pops, protoss is much less a-move than people would like to think. You can't actually just mass one protoss unit. Not in a macro orientated fashion.
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Thank you for this guide. It really helped me to get the basic, which are really hard to get by watching high level terrans playing. Really helped me out, I love you. There shouild be protoss and zerg versions, because some of the mechanics are not the same at all.
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On July 11 2012 00:12 etherealfall wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2012 15:32 XenOsky- wrote:On July 06 2012 17:55 Isualin wrote:
is there a similiar guide for protoss race?(with benchmarks and builds getting harder in each part) i found this very helpful for new terran players but my protoss friend says(who is bronze) "we cant mass zealots and win" "T is OP" and stuff. tell him to mass blink stalkers then, i guess the concept is the same, if you outmacro your opponnent in lower leagues you are going to win no matter what. I think its harder to win with protoss with such a strategy. Consider a difference between 2zealots and 1 sentry and 2 stalkers. Which army wins will be very much so dependant on position and terrain and also what the opponent has. Until colossus pops, protoss is much less a-move than people would like to think. You can't actually just mass one protoss unit. Not in a macro orientated fashion.
The point is to have 50 blink stalkers to his 20 zealot/sentries. That's kind of the point of out-macro.
And protoss is very a-move, don't kid yourself
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EPT
