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On April 22 2012 16:48 Filter wrote:
I think Terran is the "safest" macro only race, however I do think you can effectively play the other races with a similar approach. A really good Terran player relying on macro can probably have a below masters winrate of 90%, a really good zerg/toss player relying only on macro would probably be closer to 75-80%. I do believe that all races get punished for poor mechanical skills in different ways. Zergs die all the time with no larva, a huge bank and energy on their queens. I often look at a game and go well, if he hit his injects I would have lost that one. Protoss is a bit different, with warpgate and the ability to quickly sink gas/mineral surplus into very strong units (zealots/archons, colossus with chrono) it's not quite as obvious. When a protoss player has bad early/midgame mechanics he gets killed though.
I would be very interested to see what would happen if you gave a silver player from each race and gave them three saturated bases which race would end up doing the best.
protoss would lose every single pvp they get 4 gated platinum and up or proxied if they just play macro or dont scout, you cant do one build order vs every race with protoss. You could have 70-80% winrtate with one build vs zerg and terran but using that same build pvp will net u under 50% win rate unless you have grandmaster mechanics. Im a mid master protoss and i bet id lose to platinum 4 gate i with 1 gate fe, the standard macro build.
What you could do with protoss is 4 gate every pvp while trying to hit under 5:50 and do a 1 gate fe into a 2 base 2 ranged colossus 6 gate push vs terran and zerg, making a choke with gates at your natural vs zerg. Pretty much identical build vs both should win a great deal till at least diamond.
Zerg is even trickier, zvp and zvt zerg drones to like 60+ with barely any units and zvz this is instant loss so anything. Also, the tricky part is this guide has benchmarks for a non scout timing while zerg is most reactive race so non scouting blind macro doesnt benefit it as much(they cant just make marines vs everything).
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Hey Filter, I just want to drop by to say the following: Thanks so much for putting in such an amount of time for the improvement of others, I not only got WAY faster (from 60 apm to 115), but also after just a bit of practice, I'm now maxing out on 2bases at around 13 minutes, and I now need to start on the platinum level benchmarks.
It feels so great to actually see yourself improve, but the rate at which anyone will improve following this advice, it's insane. You will get better at an amazing rate, and I will recommend this article, and your video series to every friend of mine who is willing to improve at this game!
Once again, thanks so much for your time to make the series, and I'm looking forward to seeing more of your content!
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These are some great tutorials and i'm not quite as good as i hoped. I had 44 SCV's at the 10 minute mark, but then again this isn't the race i main, i am a Zerg looking for advice, if anyone runs by a bronze to masters, or makes one for Zerg it would be appreciated from the noob/Zerg community.
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Long time reader, first time poster. I created an account here with the sole reason of thanking you for these videos. My macro has improved, across the board, more in the last two days than it has in the last year of on-and-off ladder play. Your use of increasing benchmarks and your visual style of education have been invaluable to me, and I recommend this to any casual player, like me, that just wants to not suck anymore. Thank you, Filter.
Move over William Shattner, my new favorite Canadian is Filter Starcraft!
Halx
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Another lurker here! I created an account to thank Filter for all the work and effort that has been put into these tutorials. I have been silver for a few months, winning around 50% of my games, and have always been aware of SCVs and depots, SCVs and depots, but before these videos I didn't realise how important it actually was. I always thought my SCV production was okay, but looking at some old replays it's often around the 35 mark...I guess I don't realise I'm not making them, because whenever I do remember I'll make one anyway.
So anyway, thanks Filter, you're my hero. I've told all of my friends about this video, and he enjoyed it too. Great work!
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hey! just wanted to add my voice here n say a huge thanks for your help to the to us low league players and the community!
i ve been playing casually sc2 for about a year ( gold league now) and efforts like yours make me love this game even more.
thanks
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On April 22 2012 10:33 Applemiester wrote:
Bronze Zerg here. Watched the vids and jumped straight on ladder and hit all the timings no problem and won. I don't know if other Zerg players feel the same but but Marines are just sooo good its unbelieveable. You don't even have to scout. My question is, I want to play Zerg so how can I do this with Zerg ? Mass queens? There is no reliable Tier 1 unit that can hit ground and air like marines.
Zerg is going to have a different set of benchmarks than terran. 50 scv's by 10 minutes is pretty decent, especially when comparing it to the Jinro replay pack released by TL a few days ago. However, a macro zerg should have a higher drone count. Without any pressure at 10 minutes a zerg should be on three mostly saturated bases (65-70ish drones) with most the tech and upgrade options started.
Zerg players, therefore, can use the benchmarks in this thread and benefit (especially if their macro is bad). However, this guide is specific to terran and zerg will find an earlier point where it is not as effective. 2 base mass roach/hydra into 3 base with good macro will probably get someone to platinum (maybe diamond), but I don't imagine it will go further.
Other pieces of advice were spot-on. Someone mentioned that the pure macro path is the "main path" while all your actions are deviations. This is very true, especially for zerg. It's the most reactive race and the inject mechanic is the most unforgiving of the three race's macro support mechanic (mules, chrono, inject).
It would be very beneficial if a higher level zerg player made a guide like this, but the format and methods would have many distinctions.
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Well thought out approach to teaching and good break down of the game! Nice side stepping of the macro better trap and teaching people to macro better instead! Only watched episode one but will watch them all in due time.
One of the best threads I have seen in quite a while. Thanks for putting in the work. Hope this much love doesn't go to your head ^^
Ima gonna make me some scvs & marines now...
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On April 21 2012 03:02 phiinix wrote:
200 supply at 14:00?.... I don't think I've ever hit that in a game ever.. In your vid you had 153, plus 21 dead units means 174.. Not to try and nit pick but 26 food is quite a lot to be missing, I think 15:00 is a much better bench mark. Other than that, seriously good work on these videos, I think they have a lot to offer
I think the point is that as a theoretical benchmark, 200@14:00 is possible. Set your benchmark the the best you have ever achieved against easy AI and work against that if you prefer. Benchmarks are simply stable points to compare other things against — i.e. note that you were 60 food off your benchmark last week and only 50 off it in your last game. It's a lot easier than trying to compare two replays of 'real games' against one another.
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The positive words from the posters here is great, I'm really happy a lot of people are finding some great improvements in their games through this thread and these videos.
The idea with benchmarks, no matter your race, is it makes finding macro mistakes easier when watching a replay and losses a bit less frustrating. When you goto check the replay, you can see your macro caused you to lose but then you can see how the engagements went etc and where to improve that side of things. If you're zerg, or toss practice your builds against very easy ai and see how well you can do, use those are benchmarks going forward.
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Just hit masters today, I focused the last week on nothing but minimap awareness, using my camera hotkeys and macro in my base and was flat demolishing diamonds. It's still hard for me to believe what a difference your mechanics make, getting things done quickly is the only way to have time.
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Weird... I'm in platinum but when I use terran vs a person (not ai) I only hit about 41 SCVs at 10 mins. Completely due to supply blocks. Vs ai I can hit it every time. Sure shows a hole in my play!
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Geeze I didn't realize how much better it was to just have an extra SCV in the queue after the opening than to try to chain them one at a time. While doing the bronze stuff my best without queuing scvs versus with was pretty startling.
Without queuing scvs: 47 scvs, 58 marines, 116 total supply at 10 minutes
With the scv queuing: 52 scvs, 61 marines, 125 total supply at 10 minutes
Had the same production base and the 47 scv game even felt 'smoother' but I was just outright 20 seconds faster if I played with my command centers having a queued scv O.o. I didn't just not make scvs for a while at any point, it's just that those fractions of a second you don't put another scv in BEFORE one finishes are sneaky and add up to a ton of lost potential.
Diamond Terran atm and definitely have a lot to learn from these videos. Thanks a bunch for posting them 
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while I think think this is a great guide and found the video's really well done
I gave it a go and tbh all your video's the first 4 that I watched only showed what happens if the other guy don't attack you at all so far I have yet to have this happen
and I am not sure if its cause your on the NA server which I hear is much worse than Europe but when I try that build on a Silver TvT around 7:30 3 tanks and load of marines turn up and you straight up die even with micro cause 1 bunker and few rines and marauders don't cut it
maybe I should move it up and do the gold for silver but I really think some players idea of what a bronze player is like is based on NA servers I meet a player as bad as the ones you faced in the first 4 videos one every 20 games and when I look at the profiles its usually they first or second game ever
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You should be able to hold the 1/1/1 with this style, you do need to adjust it a bit (get tanks if he does the 1/1/1, but thats as simple as a naked starport and techlab on the factory, everything times out.) You need to keep your bunker alive too, if his marines go in to try and kill it send in your marines (tanks will keep shooting the bunker). Just set 4 or 5 scvs next tot he bunker on auto repair, they'll keep it up unless he gets overaggressive but at that point he'll lose all his marines. The difference between the 1/1/1 from gold to masters is about the same power. I can hold it, but it's tough, in any league.
Server comparisons are kind of silly too, I played out my placements on the korean server (it's laggy for me) and 5-0'd them using only the "silver" stuff, mixed in with a big of micro. The micro is through the lag though, so it's pretty god awful.
Plat Zerg, who is hyper aggressive, on the korean server, using my silver league layers. I have no idea there's a bust coming, no safety bunkers etc. I just outproduce him by the end and win by making more stuff than he can kill.
http://drop.sc/165230
Some stuff is really hard to hold regardless of league and tactics. Don't judge your play on one game, on one build order.
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i dont play terran but i like to watch vids of all races, these videos are amazingly well thought out and are a great tool for improvement and i will mention them to friends. I thinking setting yourself progressive targets is the thing that sets these vids a realm ahead of other tutorials as they give lower lvl players tangible targets to hit nearly regardless of how a game unfolds. so thanks for putting the time and effort into making them.
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I posted my results here: http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?id=330056
If you have always wanted to play a macro-terran style, have been playing for a long time, and just haven't been able to improve, you probably have all the skills necessary to be much better. In fact, you probably have developed certain skills far beyond their need.
Filter's method makes sure that your focus is directed at the proper priorities--workers, supply, production, tech, scouting/map control, and the rest, in that order.
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http://drop.sc/165245
I just had my first time trying this out over my usual 1/1/1 into expansion. I managed 47 scvs and roughly 90ish food @ 10minutes. There was an attack just as I was trying to increase my extra rax and that slowed things down.
I'm just a gold player, but was matched vs a mid diamond and we were both doing the same macro-terran style. Note the difference in third timings, and also the difference in production at the end. I genuinely felt like I always had more stuff and another army to go. I really needed a second factory earlier too. But my scouting and map control are also improved.
Thanks Filter.
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On April 22 2012 19:18 AlphaDotCom wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2012 16:48 Filter wrote:
I think Terran is the "safest" macro only race, however I do think you can effectively play the other races with a similar approach. A really good Terran player relying on macro can probably have a below masters winrate of 90%, a really good zerg/toss player relying only on macro would probably be closer to 75-80%. I do believe that all races get punished for poor mechanical skills in different ways. Zergs die all the time with no larva, a huge bank and energy on their queens. I often look at a game and go well, if he hit his injects I would have lost that one. Protoss is a bit different, with warpgate and the ability to quickly sink gas/mineral surplus into very strong units (zealots/archons, colossus with chrono) it's not quite as obvious. When a protoss player has bad early/midgame mechanics he gets killed though.
I would be very interested to see what would happen if you gave a silver player from each race and gave them three saturated bases which race would end up doing the best. protoss would lose every single pvp they get 4 gated platinum and up or proxied if they just play macro or dont scout, you cant do one build order vs every race with protoss. You could have 70-80% winrtate with one build vs zerg and terran but using that same build pvp will net u under 50% win rate unless you have grandmaster mechanics. Im a mid master protoss and i bet id lose to platinum 4 gate i with 1 gate fe, the standard macro build. What you could do with protoss is 4 gate every pvp while trying to hit under 5:50 and do a 1 gate fe into a 2 base 2 ranged colossus 6 gate push vs terran and zerg, making a choke with gates at your natural vs zerg. Pretty much identical build vs both should win a great deal till at least diamond. Zerg is even trickier, zvp and zvt zerg drones to like 60+ with barely any units and zvz this is instant loss so anything. Also, the tricky part is this guide has benchmarks for a non scout timing while zerg is most reactive race so non scouting blind macro doesnt benefit it as much(they cant just make marines vs everything).
Should I still be trying to stick to the one simple build for the matchups at a high diamond level? PvP you have to do something different for sure, otherwise you will just die. In PvT I could definitely get by just using one build until masters. My main question is PvZ - Last week I copied a basic build from nony that involved a 3 gateway expand into mass stalker/colosus and upgrades. My only issue is that I feel (correct me if im wrong) I have to do something if i see mutalisks. Don't get me wrong- I can deal with mutas in other ways, but I don't feel like I can do it by sticking to the colosus/stalker build without it ending in a base trade situation. Any advice?
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EPT
