EPT[G] PvZ 7-gate Immortal +1/+1 - Page 4
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alpinefpOPP
United States134 Posts
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Let it Raine
Canada1245 Posts
On April 02 2012 05:29 Belial88 wrote: No it's not... You can't afford it, and it takes way too long to get out. It's about as expensive as infestors. you can certainly afford it and you can certainly get it out on time. bling drops + speed roaches beat every delayed ground all in. (and having the roaches means you can also defend from the earlier ones that feature abilityless gateway units.) i think its the best choice, and it's quite satisfying to kill the protosses "timing push" (all in) in .5 seconds. | ||
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TangSC
Canada1866 Posts
On April 02 2012 08:43 Let it Raine wrote: you can certainly afford it and you can certainly get it out on time. bling drops + speed roaches beat every delayed ground all in. (and having the roaches means you can also defend from the earlier ones that feature abilityless gateway units.) i think its the best choice, and it's quite satisfying to kill the protosses "timing push" (all in) in .5 seconds. Sounds really interesting Raine, could you please post a replay or two of you holding these delayed pushes with Roaches and baneling drops? Thanks! | ||
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Razultull
United States36 Posts
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GleaM
United States207 Posts
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Payson
United States394 Posts
Sick build, going to be interesting to see how Zergs want to counter this build! | ||
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IamPryda
United States1186 Posts
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grush57
Korea (South)2582 Posts
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tomatriedes
New Zealand5356 Posts
On April 09 2012 11:50 grush57 wrote: Squirtle is doing this build(ish) :D And... it gets stomped by mass roaches. | ||
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grush57
Korea (South)2582 Posts
Yea, he got unlucky with the basetrade so he had to warp in at 2 different areas. | ||
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Ncage
United States91 Posts
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VoirDire
Sweden1923 Posts
On April 09 2012 12:30 Ncage wrote: Can you explain what the +1 armor does? +1 and +2 weapons are very important upgrades but I have yet to find something that makes +1 armor a relevant upgrade to have. +2 attack requires a twilight council, and it isn't worth getting just for the upgrade when going for an immortal rush. | ||
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gaymon
Germany1023 Posts
On April 09 2012 12:30 Ncage wrote: Can you explain what the +1 armor does? +1 and +2 weapons are very important upgrades but I have yet to find something that makes +1 armor a relevant upgrade to have. The big thing +1 Armor does is increasing the hits zerglings need to deplete a zealots LIFE(not shield) from 25 to 33 which is really big. | ||
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Protossking
Australia103 Posts
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VoirDire
Sweden1923 Posts
On April 09 2012 14:51 Protossking wrote: I'm a 1250 point master on the NA server, I use this build every time on Cloud Kingdom but on no other map, my record on Cloud PvZ is 10-1 (not even joking). The 1 game I lost was a baneling drop player, sentries die so fast to blings and then you can get an easy surround with mass speedling. I don't know how hard this is to pull off as a zerg player, or how versatile it is, but maybe give it a try. It's not that hard to pull of, but it's really weak to a fast warp-gate rush or blink stalkers. | ||
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aznheat80
United States186 Posts
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caradoc
Canada3022 Posts
On April 11 2012 11:44 aznheat80 wrote: what can you do if the zerg just goes for a base race against you when u attack his 3rd? also puts up like 10 spinecrawlers in their natural cannons, warp in your nat, you'll scout his army moving out, cannons and a warp in will finish before he arrives on most maps. immortals vs. spinecrawlers is better than roaches vs. cannons. If he builds enough spines to actually hold off the push he's hurt his econ a lot, so you can go back, kill his army, and you're way way way ahead, esp. if he's lost his third. | ||
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Canyarion
Netherlands14 Posts
Then I started losing vs mass Roach, Stephano style. Just 2 games, nothing big, but it made me wonder what I could do differently. First of all I became a lot quicker with my FFs. When the Zerg aggresively moved his Roaches into my army, the FFs did nothing. So I learnd to cast them earlier. I decided to grab a 3rd, a TC and a 2nd Forge. I got Blink and +2 +2 while I defended my natural and 3rd with my army. In the end I had enough to push out and seal the deal. Oh yeah, I also decided to always go Obs before Immortal. I need to know what's coming my way. That was only 2 practice games (vs my buddy's offrace Zerg). Your thoughts? Any other ideas? | ||
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Suitor
Sweden3 Posts
My thoughts from meeting 20-60 ranked masters: I dont agree with op on +1 armor; hits to late and no benefits for +1armor. Instead what Arcanefrost said is working better for me at least. First: Very important to get the FFE up and running inflicting as much damage to zerg as possible. Like if you dont scout Z first and go 14 forge, then block his 2nd and canonrush his 3rd (after putting down your own exp) and so on. Important to delay full saturation for Z on 3 bases for as long as possible since he wont benefit from it then. Saturation is vital: full saturation in main, then start rally to natural. Check if tripple probes are working on same mineralpatch in main. stop at 46. You need to take care of those probies! All chrono on probes untill robo is up then all (ALL for rest of the push that is) on robo production. If I you dont se gas from Z I go 1-2 stalkers for abusing no lingspeed. Also delays the zerg. But dont miss your macro for microing! Scout at 4.30 for 3rd base with probe or 1st zealot. Gas spending: (2+1 early assimilators as Arcanefrost suggested) first 100 centry, then 50 on warp, then 100 on robo (where it aint scouted), next 100 +1, next 100 2nd centry, and so on. After robo I ad 3 gates and then 2 extra when I can afford them. First warpin is centries as many you can afford and zealots and at the same time then ad 3-4 pylons. Continue 3pylon-production at a time for each production cycle. Warp-in at proxy pylon is mainly stalkers. Try to push as early as possible even if you dont have 3 immortals yet. Around 9 min I move out and rally warp prism and more immortals to army. Good proxypylon placements (wich should be possible with stalker poke and earlier small centry poke). Engaging has been covered pretty well earlier here. But dont get surrounded  . Remember this egagements is much harder for zerg, he has to take care of 3 bases, escape with drones, engage with multiple armies in perfect locations for not getting forcefielded, AND you decide when to move in and when to build units behind it. Use your observer to see his army placement and cut of armies with FF. My experiences are that the lings often comes to earlie so you can drop FF behind them (preferably in choke) to cut roaches away and then stutter step retreat until lings are dead, then move in again. Dont be afraid to stay and fight for while as long as you can stand between 2nd and 3rd bases. Its so hard for zerg to produce from specific hatcheries with specific rallypoints and move armies at same time - Its not Ret we are talking about here... Rally more immortals (chronoboosted). At last my thoughts are that this build is using a lot of fun technics for toss and is practising multitasking (macro/micro). Give this build a try for 10 games at least and you will be a master at it. I think its like playing 111 as TvsP. Follow up if you cant seal the deal (cant take his natural but you have taken his 3rd as an example): Colossus-den and expand with 2-3 more gates at 3rd with canons behind for blocking 3rd for roach swarm. Then doubble forge and push when you have tech and uppgrade advantage (around 170 food, stalker/colossus ball). Use warp prism for warping in zealots to make him retreat with his 200/200 roach swarm and by some time. This was maybe a little bit to much text, just some thoughts Recommendation for top daimond/lower master protosses builds: pvp: 11gate 3gate pressure http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=273465 it gets you mapcontrole and agression so YOU can adapt to what you see and you are equal on probes with perfect macro. If I see 12 gate and probably early 4gate I fake engage and expand+tech for example. pvt: MC:s 17 nexus (3chrono on probes) then adapt to what you scout: 2rax: drop 2nd gate before core - chrono z+s, no gas: all chrono on probes and 4 gate pressure, closed wall: rage quit to lower your win ratio, (no its just to complicated to write here...). Abuse the strong 2-base pushes/all-in from toss like 8 gate, fast colossus, and so on. | ||
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Suitor
Sweden3 Posts
My mistake, the oponents are from midle master to midle diamond http://drop.sc/165480 (master zerg rasist) http://drop.sc/165481 (bad manner guy) http://drop.sc/165487 (apaprently I'm a "bitch") http://drop.sc/165482 http://drop.sc/165483 http://drop.sc/165484 http://drop.sc/165489 (doesn't seem to like me) http://drop.sc/165490 (very nice long micro battle) http://drop.sc/165492 (losing, this is how you should not engage) http://drop.sc/165493 | ||
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