• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
TeamLiquid Liquipedia LiquidDota LiquidLegends
EST 00:30
CET 06:30
KST 14:30
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Super Tournament 1 - RO16 Day 1 Preview (2021)9BSL - Season 1121Trap wins DreamHack: Last Chance 202118DH Last Chance: RO16 Group C Preview8[ASTL2] Power Rank28
Community News
Blizzard Team 1 (SC:R/SC2 Devs) was dissolved/restructured in October101$9,000 WardiTV 2021 - Jan 23-Feb 733Cheeseadelphia Winter Championship $10K Tournament - Jan 23-2451IEM Katowice 2021 to be held online, prize money redistributed61Super Tournament 1 (2021) bracket40
StarCraft 2
General
Super Tournament 1 - RO16 Day 1 Preview (2021) New ladder maps for first season of 2021 ? Super Tournament 1 (2021) bracket Blizzard Team 1 (SC:R/SC2 Devs) was dissolved/restructured in October Trap wins DreamHack: Last Chance 2021
Tourneys
ITaX Trovo Weekly#20 TIME, Rogue, Creator & Patien [GSL 2021] Super Tournament 1 - Day 1 The Three-Winged Angel 2021 NA Apprentice Cheeseadelphia Winter Championship $10K Tournament - Jan 23-24
Strategy
Select Larvae + Morph unit Rapidfire 4gate robo stalker all in vs T [G] PvZ Cheese: PartinG's "Adios Amigo" Build HuShang Tutorials
Custom Maps
Re-created map Ghost Tower Re-created map Wasteland [Q] BO Practice Custom Map
External Content
Sponsoring a Bo7 between 2 pros of your choice Mutation #249 Dark Ritual Mutation #248 Boom Town New edition of the Dank Templars SC2 newsletter!
Brood War
General
SC:R bunker command? [StarCastTV] Update Thread Blizzard Classic Games "quietly dismantled" Battle for Aiur: Bonyth vs Dewalt FlaSh on Arm Surgery, Sacrifices & Naivety
Tourneys
[ASTL2] Week 2 Day 2 tQ show match tournament - match/add to my funding [BSL10] Gosu League [BWCL] Season 52 - Main Page
Strategy
Zerg: Lurkers Vs Vessels FlaSh's TvP Gas FE into 3 Tank Pressure [subbed] What is this new pvt style with no arbiters? PvP Bonyth style 2 gate 3 zealot 21 gas guide
Other Games
Heroes of the Storm
Hots Newbie here HotS: WP and Funny Moments [HotS] NA Stands Supreme
General Games
Sid Meier's Civilization VI Path of Exile Genshin Impact - Coop RPG Final Fantasy XIV Final Fantasy I・II・III Fanmade Remake
TL Mafia
[M][N] Mafia Mafia: Mafia Edition [M][N] I'm a cop you idiot! - Round 4 [M][T] Personality Mafia: Mini Edition Active List of Mafia Games 2.0 TL Mafia Plays: Diplomacy
Hearthstone
Is Hearthstone Gambling?
LoL General
LoL Tournaments
LoL Strategy
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Coronavirus and You Trading/Investing Thread Ask and answer stupid questions here! The Games Industry And ATVI
Fan Clubs
The Scarlett Fan Club The TY Fan Club INnoVation Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Korean Music Discussion [Movie] Legendary Picture's Godzilla (2014) [SCIFI Series] The Expanse Dragon Ball Super Discussion
Sports
2020 - 2021 Football Thread 2020 NFL and College Football Corona Season NBA Season 2019-2020 NHL 19-20: Hop Off my Kakko UFC/MMA Discussion Thread
Tech Support
Mac Mouse woes be gone! Locked out of Blizzard Account Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Ask TL Staff Anything Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Game Programming with SFM…
ChristianS
My profession - Being A S…
jameswatts
GSL 2010 Season 1: A L…
TheRealNanMan
hazelynut's "3+1 = 4 pool"…
hazelynut
My fourth semester of colle…
DeNikSSB
TrapGod
EheroSC2
How Do We Improve Su…
waywardstrategy
My iPhone game
GroT
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 920 users

[G] PvZ 7-gate Immortal +1/+1

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Next All
RemarK
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States452 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-30 23:19:45
March 30 2012 22:55 GMT
#1
Introduction:

Hello all,

I’m RemarK, top masters Protoss on the NA server, this is my first guide – I’ll be teaching you guys a relatively simple PvZ build, the 7-gate, +1/+1 immortal all-in! For lack of a better name, I’ll just refer to it as the Immortal 7-gate.

This build is a 2-base PvZ all-in (very strong timing attack) that I saw Choya do in the GSTL. It’s a neat build – the goal is to build a miniature death ball and attack before the Zerg’s unit production has 100% kicked in. It’s especially strong vs Zergs who try to go straight into mutas on 3 hatches, if you execute properly, you will kill them most of the time!

Infrastructure:
+ Show Spoiler +
Before we talk about the build in greater depth, I want to talk about the infrastructure of this build, as well as a few notes about saturation.

The basic infrastructure of the build is you start +1 attack while your cyber core is still warping in, and then a sentry + robo shortly after it has finished. After starting the sentry and robo, you take the extra gases at your natural expansion, keep chrono-boosting probes until you hit 44 (16 probes / mineral field x 2 mineral fields + 3 probes / assimilator x 4 assimilators).

Saturations are very important – when you’re doing a build such as this, it’s crucial to be on top of your saturation game. I don’t transfer any probes to my natural when it finishes, and instead have each nexus rallied to their respective mineral line until I get 16 probes on minerals in my main and 6 on gas (16 probes = box all the mineral workers in your main and it should be exactly 2 rows of probes) – then I rally my main Nexus to the natural mineral field and just add workers until we get the required amount down there as well (3 on each gas, 16 on minerals).

It might seem like I’m making a big deal out of this, but I cannot overstate its importance. You’re attacking a Zerg who probably will have ~60 drones (sometimes even more!) and therefore you need to be squeezing every last drop of efficiency out of what you have. If you’re executing correctly and use your knowledge of saturations to your advantage, then you will actually be attacking at a time when your resource collection rate is better (and has been most of the game) than the Zerg’s, even though he is 20 workers ahead of you (they haven’t fully kicked in yet).

Ok, phew, boring technical stuff out of the way, onto the build!


The Build:
+ Show Spoiler +
Like most PvZ builds, we start off with a standard forge fast expansion (FFE). There’s a few stylistic differences in how people FFE, so don’t feel like you have to use my version of the build – it’s just the version I’m most comfortable with / think is best right now.

9 pylon (@ low-ground) – Scout with the probe that builds this pylon.

13/14 forge (chronoboost probes twice, then build forge) – If it’s a 4-player map AND your first scout hasn’t figured out where the Zerg lives, you need to scout with this probe also in case he’s 6 or 7 pooling.

17 Nexus (you should’ve scouted the Zerg, if he’s early pooling [anything before an 11 pool] you might need to either drop a pylon + cannon in your main mineral line or rush to complete the wall before building the nexus, thus abandoning this build)

17 Cannon

17 Gateway

17 Pylon (Note: the cannon + gateway + pylon should either complete your sim city and leave you with a 1-hex hole that can be plugged by a probe or zealot, or on maps with wide-ramps like Antiga set you up to complete your sim city when you add the cyber core)

*Build a probe*

18 2x Assimilator (I like to build these with the probe that made the 17 pylon, and then use my scouting probe to plug the wall when he gets home)

*Pylon finishes*

Chronoboost probes, put workers on gas when the assimilators finishes, etc

*Nexus finishes, Gateway finishes*

Build your cyber core

@100 gas – Start +1 ground attack upgrade at forge

Around this time, you should be approaching saturation at your main – when you have 16 probes on minerals, make sure to rally both Nexus to your natural expansion

Build a pylon (choose the pylon location carefully, you’re going to build your robo here and you want it to be in a safe and slightly hidden spot – I usually just put it on top of my ramp at my main)

*Cyber core finishes*

Start warp tech, start sentry (optional chronoboost on sentry if you haven’t confirmed a 3rd base)

@200 minerals / 100 gas, drop your robo

Keep chronoboosting probes! We’re not saturated at the nat yet

@100 gas, start second sentry

@100 gas, start +1 armor upgrade

Drop pylons as needed, you want to stay 4-6 supply ahead of the limit right now

@16 probes on minerals at your natural, take both gasses at your natural, keep making probes (you need 6 more at that point, 3 from each nexus)

*Warp tech finishes*

Morph gateway, warp in sentry

*Robotics facility finishes*

Build immortal

Note – at this point, we should be very close to stopping probe production, from here we are going to focus our chronoboost on the +1 armor upgrade (to finish it in time for the push) and on the robo units (to get them out as fast as possible). Additionally, keep warping in sentries off of our single warp gate

As the first immortal is building, add 2 gates.

*First immortal finishes*

Build another immortal, and add 4-gates (the goal of this timing is to be deceptive, Zergs usually sack an overlord to scout and if we don’t add all our gates at once there’s a higher chance of him not seeing all those gates – I also recommend not building all the gates in the same place, although that’s optional and a little bit map dependent)

*Second immortal finishes, morph first 2 gates into warp gates and get more sentries!*

Build warp prism

Note – +1 armor should be almost done, and so should all your gates. Morph them into warp gates, make sure you have 6-8 sentries , and from then on warp in stalkers. You’re going to build pylons 2-3 at a time to keep up with your supply off of 7 gates production.

*Warp prism finishes*

Load up both immortals into the warp prism, and send the warp prism somewhere outside the Zergs 3rd (whatever angle you want to attack from)

Note – as you’re moving out, ideally the Zerg is just going to see gateway units and a warp prism. This makes it slightly harder to get a full read on what build you’re doing, and he might make more roaches than he would have wanted to had he known about the immortals.

Move out with your gateway force

@Full warp cycle – morph warp prism into phase mode, then warp in 7 stalkers (sometimes this will be your second full warp-in

Attack! And good luck.


Notes for execution:
+ Show Spoiler +
With this army composition, you’re essentially creating a well-upgraded miniature death ball. Immortal stalker sentry is a pretty durable and robust composition, with both high durability and good DPS when balled up. Forcefields are a potential game-changer for you, if you can cut off part of his army and kill it for free then you’re on your way to a win! But if you mis-manage your sentry energy by either using inefficient forcefields or too many guardian shields (ideally 1, AT MOST 2 per engagement) then you’ll run out and get overrun by Zerg reinforcements.

Given your composition, you want to be careful and intelligently choose how to engage. Don’t approach from a wide open area, where you can get flanked, surrounded, etc. DO approach from narrow chokes if possible. If the Zerg is caught off guard and doesn’t have enough units, then you can just go straight up to his 3rd and position yourself next to it, attacking and also using it as part of a choke. Do everything you can to get in a position where you are putting pressure on the Zerg and forcing him into entering an unfavorable engagement. Lastly, if possible, do your best to avoid attacking up a ramp blindly.

The warp prism is absolutely crucial to the success of this build – if you lose it, you lose your instant warp gate reinforcements and will probably get overrun by cheap Zerg units. If he has hydras or lots of queens, make sure your warp prism is far enough back to be safe.

Generally with this attack, the Zerg will be doing 1 of 4 things: some permutation of mass roach / roach+ling, ling + hydra, ling + infestor, or ling + muta. Usually, this build hits before any of the latter 3 tech choices have kicked in fully so you will most often be able to overrun them and kill them. If the Zerg has lots of lings, don’t be afraid to warp in a round of zealots, and then just position them in front of your army for the engagement. Zealots, especially +1/+1 zealots are amazing tanks and with their sturdiness + the DPS of your mini-death-star you should be able to trade with a blinding cost-efficiency!
Sometimes, you will get the Zerg’s 3rd base but not be able to kill him if his natural is well-defended / his hydra numbers hit a critical mass / he has lots of spines. As long as you’ve killed his 3rd and 10~ drones and he’s not going muta, you’re in a goodspot! All you need to do to win is back-off, go double robo colossus, and then you can push out with 4x Colossus and thermal lance (you can take a 3rd behind this push if you’d like as well). He should die here.


Replays:
+ Show Spoiler +
Here’s a few of my replays from ladder games with this build, I wrote this guide based on the most recent game I played using it.

vs coLRyze – http://drop.sc/148257 (this is how the attack plays out vs a Zerg going mutas usually, and is probably the best example of the build)

vs TSLRevival – http://drop.sc/148360 (I lost this game, but I’m including it to show both how Z users can play against it and what sort of mistakes P users should avoid making when executing this build)

vs RoK – http://drop.sc/148359 (This is an example where I kill the 3rd + some drones, but didn’t want to press the attack further and went for the 2x robo colossus follow-up push)

Note – I actually have a lot less replays of this build saved then I thought - if you guys want more replays, just let me know and I’ll do this build vs my next few ladder Zergs and update this guide. I figured that since this attack is just a build order for the first 8 to 9 minutes of the game, that would be the most important part to show!


About Me:
+ Show Spoiler +
I’m RemarK.406 on the NA server, a top masters Protoss who comes from a FPS background (Halo specifically) with no RTS experience. Feel free to message me on TL (soLremarK), reddit (mmkramer), or battle.net with any feedback or thoughts about my guides. I also stream tournament and ladder games at http://www.twitch.tv/tsremark , often with commentary as well. Thank you for reading and I hope this guide was helpful!
Thug means never having to say you're sorry | Grandmaster Protoss | www.twitch.tv/tsremark | @remarkiwa
VoirDire
Profile Joined February 2009
Sweden1847 Posts
March 30 2012 23:00 GMT
#2
As a zerg player, I can see this working well.

When does the attack hit approximately? 11 min?
RemarK
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States452 Posts
March 30 2012 23:07 GMT
#3
On March 31 2012 08:00 VoirDire wrote:
As a zerg player, I can see this working well.

When does the attack hit approximately? 11 min?


Yup, there's some variance depending on the map / how well I'm executing, but I usually hit between 10:35 and 11:00. By 11:00, you should definitely have 2 immortals, 6+ sentries, and ~20 stalkers (and the warp prism). So about 60~ supply in army.
Thug means never having to say you're sorry | Grandmaster Protoss | www.twitch.tv/tsremark | @remarkiwa
TangSC
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada1852 Posts
March 30 2012 23:14 GMT
#4
Thanks for posting the guide, remark, this is definitely helpful.

It is a really strong all-in but it would be useful if you went into the in-game timings a bit more. If Zerg goes for any type of tech beyond roach/ling with upgrades, it's so difficult to hold. Do you think this has a strong chance of success against a player who masses Roach/Ling or mixes in Hydras?
Coaching www.allin-academy.com | Team www.All-Inspiration.com
Zheryn
Profile Joined December 2010
Sweden3653 Posts
March 30 2012 23:17 GMT
#5
You didn't lose the second game and it's against "RoK".
hundred thousand krouner
RemarK
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States452 Posts
March 30 2012 23:22 GMT
#6
@TangSC - sure, I'll try to add some in-game timings more. I'll have to go through the replay and get time-stamps myself, because I always just execute based on feel / resource allocation. Sorry if the build order seemed a little vague on account of that!

In my experience, it seems like lots of speedlings + hydras are the best way to defend this. If the Zerg can hold their 3rd base / trade armies effectively, they've almost always won the game. And versus stalker sentry immortal, hydralisks + speedlings are the most cost-effective composition you can get as Zerg (I think infestors + fungal growth are less reliable vs so many sturdy units). As Zerg, your goal is to make the Protoss run out of energy, if you can last that long and without taking critical damage, you'll overrun him.

@Zheryn - thanks, I accidentally copy pasta'd the wrong link. Updated with proper replay.
Thug means never having to say you're sorry | Grandmaster Protoss | www.twitch.tv/tsremark | @remarkiwa
CecilSunkure
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States2829 Posts
March 30 2012 23:23 GMT
#7
Hey I remember playing you on ladder and you asked how to write guides Thanks for taking the time to write this up! Have you considered attacking a minute later with blink and +2? I feel the combination of those two is much more effective than a slightly earlier attack and +1 armor.
CCalms
Profile Joined November 2010
United States341 Posts
March 30 2012 23:24 GMT
#8
I thought you only 10 gated ^^
TangSC
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada1852 Posts
March 30 2012 23:26 GMT
#9
On March 31 2012 08:23 CecilSunkure wrote:
Hey I remember playing you on ladder and you asked how to write guides Thanks for taking the time to write this up! Have you considered attacking a minute later with blink and +2? I feel the combination of those two is much more effective than a slightly earlier attack and +1 armor.

Have to agree, +2 blink all-ins ftw
Coaching www.allin-academy.com | Team www.All-Inspiration.com
Metalteeth
Profile Joined December 2011
United States115 Posts
March 30 2012 23:32 GMT
#10
Thanks, will have to try this out!
Twitter: @Metalteeth9 GoGo Starcraft!
VoirDire
Profile Joined February 2009
Sweden1847 Posts
March 30 2012 23:33 GMT
#11
On March 31 2012 08:26 TangSC wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 31 2012 08:23 CecilSunkure wrote:
Hey I remember playing you on ladder and you asked how to write guides Thanks for taking the time to write this up! Have you considered attacking a minute later with blink and +2? I feel the combination of those two is much more effective than a slightly earlier attack and +1 armor.

Have to agree, +2 blink all-ins ftw

A 2 base 12 minute attack with no initial pressure? Way to late imho. Zergs can very well be maxed at that point.

I think 11 minute is the latest a 2 base all-in should hit. In fact, I think 9-10 min with 3 immortals and +1 attack is stronger.
TangSC
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada1852 Posts
March 30 2012 23:35 GMT
#12
On March 31 2012 08:33 VoirDire wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 31 2012 08:26 TangSC wrote:
On March 31 2012 08:23 CecilSunkure wrote:
Hey I remember playing you on ladder and you asked how to write guides Thanks for taking the time to write this up! Have you considered attacking a minute later with blink and +2? I feel the combination of those two is much more effective than a slightly earlier attack and +1 armor.

Have to agree, +2 blink all-ins ftw

A 2 base 12 minute attack with no initial pressure? Way to late imho. Zergs can very well be maxed at that point.

I think 11 minute is the latest a 2 base all-in should hit. In fact, I think 9-10 min with 3 immortals and +1 attack is stronger.

I also like oGsVINES 7gate blink stalker build
Coaching www.allin-academy.com | Team www.All-Inspiration.com
TheGodneyDog
Profile Joined January 2012
United States99 Posts
March 31 2012 00:03 GMT
#13
This guys an ISTL stud.
iMpulse eSports Media Manager (www.impulseesports.com) Twitter: iMp_eSports Facebook: www.facebook.com/impulseesports
saltymango
Profile Joined June 2011
United States120 Posts
March 31 2012 00:12 GMT
#14
I've been doing this ever since i saw it in the gstl and it's the most powerful timing attack i've learned so far. harder to hold than +2 blink stalker 7 gate in my opinion, as well as less common.
monk
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States8472 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-31 00:48:49
March 31 2012 00:48 GMT
#15
On March 31 2012 08:33 VoirDire wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 31 2012 08:26 TangSC wrote:
On March 31 2012 08:23 CecilSunkure wrote:
Hey I remember playing you on ladder and you asked how to write guides Thanks for taking the time to write this up! Have you considered attacking a minute later with blink and +2? I feel the combination of those two is much more effective than a slightly earlier attack and +1 armor.

Have to agree, +2 blink all-ins ftw

A 2 base 12 minute attack with no initial pressure? Way to late imho. Zergs can very well be maxed at that point.

I think 11 minute is the latest a 2 base all-in should hit. In fact, I think 9-10 min with 3 immortals and +1 attack is stronger.

I have to agree with Voirdire here and disagree with cecil and tang.
  • The earliest you can hit with immortals, +2, and blink is 12minutes. If you hit after 11 minutes without early pressure, any zerg will be free to drone to 60-65 and then mass units to hold this off.
  • Getting blink/+2 also reduces your sentry count and you don't even get that many stalkers to utilize blink.
  • The strength of this build is forcefields + immortals. Blink doesn't synergize well with these 2 other units/abilities. You're relying on forcefields to prevent damage, not blink

I've tried both this build and another version that Sage used vs a TSL zerg in this GSTL and I have to say that I prefer that one much better. The OP shold take a look at that one. The difference between that build and this one are as follows: Sage opens some variation of zealot/stalker/stalker for initial gateway pressure then follows it up with a warp prism for warp prism pressure. He then goes for obs then 3 immortals off of 3 gas and doesn't get +1 armor. I feel it's a better, more lean build, because you put on more pressure earlier and get 3 immortals instead of 2, because you skip the first sentry thus allowing you to build your robo faster. The disadvantage is that you have less sentry energy and don't have +1 armor in your push.

Finally, I think it might be useful if you benchmark all the robo timings: when you drop the robo, when each of the robo units start and come out. When I was working on this build, I found that was very helpful.

Moderator
Skyro
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1512 Posts
March 31 2012 01:05 GMT
#16
-IMO it is worth it to wait to push with 3 Immortals. Think about it this way, 1 Immortals = ~4 Stalkers DPS-wise vs. armored units. With 2 Immortals you are basically increasing your DPS by ~4 Stalkers vs. Roaches if you replaced 4 Stalkers (the cost of 2 Immortals) with those 2 Immortals. Is ~4 Stalkers worth of DPS vs armored worth it vs. Blink and +2 weapons? IMO no.
-Why not make a warp prism first? It allows you to wait do some sentry drop harass. You can mix this up if you are playing the same opponent by sometimes doing just a light sentry harass in their mineral line and other times a more full-blown perma-FF their ramp backed by ~6 gates type of strategy.
-You probably want to mention possible warp prism uses in this strategy. The main advantage of these pushes over a +2 Blink pushes is that you have some harass options available to you mid-game before your push and the options available to you with your prism during your push (i.e. warping in his mineral line while pushing his front, using the warp prism to protect your immortals when they get focus fired, etc.).
Mikelius
Profile Joined September 2010
Germany517 Posts
March 31 2012 01:14 GMT
#17
I'm actually using a similar build, but instead of Immortals I go for Colossi and attack the second I have my second Colo with range, it does come out about a minute later and I sacrifice sentries/gas for more zealots. But yeah, robo timing attack at around that time are very strong.
Less QQ, more PewPew
Th1rdEye
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States1069 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-31 01:20:47
March 31 2012 01:16 GMT
#18
Watch out for fast infestors from zerg, will shut this down. Most zergs know that hydralisks are a bad option against this due to the FF's/timing and that roach ling is obviously c ountered by immortal FF

ive played many all ins like this on KR ladder, and only thing that works for me is fast infestors and pure fungal/roach ling mass-

note: mass units *can* work, but you have to have great positioning and flanks. the strength of this build is the initial push, that FF's half your units, kills your third, blocks you out of third, etc.

my best advice to zergs trying to hold this off is to scout it in time, and work on spines/infestors.. go light on the roaches, if you mass roach like herp derp zerg does to 12 minute max, you will probably die. you will have no gas left for infestors.

the timing of this build hits later than warp gate pushes and blink all in, so you have plenty of time to go up to 5-6 gasses and full saturation in time. i would not suggest going for a fourth until you see toss go for his third.
from the days of: TheMarine [NC]...YellOw [H.O.T.]-Forever99 OgOgO [_MuMyung_] ChRh PlayGrrrr.... SlayerS_`BoxeR` [Oops]Reach [ReD]NaDa [DF]zergboy..!! Pusan[S.G] Nal_rA GARIMTO SSamJJang ChoJJa JinSu Silent_Control iloveoov H_PauL_WII JulyZerg [DaK]JoYo
Mikelius
Profile Joined September 2010
Germany517 Posts
March 31 2012 01:18 GMT
#19
On March 31 2012 09:48 NrGmonk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 31 2012 08:33 VoirDire wrote:
On March 31 2012 08:26 TangSC wrote:
On March 31 2012 08:23 CecilSunkure wrote:
Hey I remember playing you on ladder and you asked how to write guides Thanks for taking the time to write this up! Have you considered attacking a minute later with blink and +2? I feel the combination of those two is much more effective than a slightly earlier attack and +1 armor.

Have to agree, +2 blink all-ins ftw

A 2 base 12 minute attack with no initial pressure? Way to late imho. Zergs can very well be maxed at that point.

I think 11 minute is the latest a 2 base all-in should hit. In fact, I think 9-10 min with 3 immortals and +1 attack is stronger.

I have to agree with Voirdire here and disagree with cecil and tang.
  • The earliest you can hit with immortals, +2, and blink is 12minutes. If you hit after 11 minutes without early pressure, any zerg will be free to drone to 60-65 and then mass units to hold this off.
  • Getting blink/+2 also reduces your sentry count and you don't even get that many stalkers to utilize blink.
  • The strength of this build is forcefields + immortals. Blink doesn't synergize well with these 2 other units/abilities. You're relying on forcefields to prevent damage, not blink

I've tried both this build and another version that Sage used vs a TSL zerg in this GSTL and I have to say that I prefer that one much better. The OP shold take a look at that one. The difference between that build and this one are as follows: Sage opens some variation of zealot/stalker/stalker for initial gateway pressure then follows it up with a warp prism for warp prism pressure. He then goes for obs then 3 immortals off of 3 gas and doesn't get +1 armor. I feel it's a better, more lean build, because you put on more pressure earlier and get 3 immortals instead of 2, because you skip the first sentry thus allowing you to build your robo faster. The disadvantage is that you have less sentry energy and don't have +1 armor in your push.

Finally, I think it might be useful if you benchmark all the robo timings: when you drop the robo, when each of the robo units start and come out. When I was working on this build, I found that was very helpful.



Would a 4 gate +1 7(ish) zealot pressure work well with this build? As in get the Robo as you pressure with Zealots to force units/roaches and then transition into chronoing Immortals?
Less QQ, more PewPew
RemarK
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States452 Posts
March 31 2012 02:53 GMT
#20
@Cecil - thanks for the feedback. In general with timing attacks vs Zerg, I feel like the sooner they hit the better. Blink and +2 timing attacks are really strong, but I would probably either scratch the immortals or throw a pressure into my strategy if I wanted to hit that timing. I find 4-gate zealot pressure while teching to robo + twilight is a good way to gear up for a 7-gate, +2 blink stalker immortal all-in.

@VoirDire - I'll try that out on the ladder and see if it seems stronger. I'll post in here once I have.

@Skyro - that's a pretty good point. I think getting the warp prism first would definitely be a smarter allocation of resources. I just copied the build based on what Choya did in the GSTL, but the flexibility of warp prism harass would increase the strength of the build a lot.

@Mikelius - I don't think +1 zealot pressure is ideal with this build, if you were gonna do that, might as well just do HerO's Pvz opener exactly and go into both robo and twilight to get blink, +2, and 2-3 immortals for an all-in. But as skyro mentioned, it would be good to get warp prism first and then you can harass with that
Thug means never having to say you're sorry | Grandmaster Protoss | www.twitch.tv/tsremark | @remarkiwa
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
OSC
02:00
Orca Cup Qualifiers
Liquipedia
The NA Apprentice
01:00
Code S Group A
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
ViBE460
WinterStarcraft293
NeuroSwarm 291
Nina 274
PiLiPiLi 82
CosmosSc2 72
PandaBearMe 37
StarCraft: Brood War
Horang2 1886
Artosis1804
ToSsGirL 393
nyoken 75
Noble 68
Last 65
Killer 45
Sharp 9
KwarK 1
Counter-Strike: Global Offensive
ptr_tv194
Super Smash Bros
C9.Mang02062
Other Games
summit1g30510
shahzam3080
Hui .95
kaitlyn92
ChuDatz84
-ZergGirl54
ROOTCatZ26
KawaiiRice6
Organizations
Counter-Strike: Global Offensive
ESL CS:GO2929
Other Games
BasetradeTV350
StarCraft 2
ESL.tv210
OGamingTV SC2 97
SC2 Vod Archives68
Blizzard YouTube
[ Show 21 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• SkrOs 134
• practicex 42
• D4rkn0ob1k 5
• Mintcrystall1
• hirohiro 1
• Genesis Gaming
• Laughngamez YouTube
• AlphaB_SC2
• Migwel
• Matiz_pl
• LaughNgamez Trovo
• aXEnki
• IndyKCrew
• Kozan
• intothetv
SC2: Legacy of the Void
• KarlJayG
• PSISTORM Gaming
StarCraft: Brood War
• HerbMon 31
• sscaitournament3
• AfreecaTV YouTube
Other Games
• TSM TheOddOne1054
Upcoming Events
GSL Super Tournament
2h 30m
Trap vs Dark
INnoVation vs Solar
sOs vs ByuN
DongRaeGu vs Dream
OSC
3h 30m
ITaX Trovo Weekly
7h 30m
Patience vs TIME
Rogue vs Creator
The Three-Winged Angel
11h 30m
MaNa vs Bee
Lambo vs MarineLorD
MarineLorD vs MaNa
Krystianer vs Lambo
Lambo vs MaNa
Shinhan Tank Proleague
14h 30m
Coach Pupil League
18h 30m
The NA Apprentice
18h 30m
The Three-Winged Angel
1d 11h
WardiTV 2021
1d 11h
BWCL
1d 14h
[ Show More ]
The NA Apprentice
1d 19h
Shinhan Tank Proleague
2 days
The NA Apprentice
2 days
Rogue City Rumble
2 days
PSISTORM Gaming Misc
2 days
Showmatch
3 days
PSISTORM Gaming Misc
3 days
The Three-Winged Angel
3 days
OSC
3 days
BSL: Ladder Tournament
3 days
Battle for Aiur
3 days
Bonyth vs Dewalt
Student Starcraft AI To…
3 days
The NA Apprentice
3 days
AfreecaTV Starcraft Tea…
4 days
WardiTV 2021
4 days
Trap vs ByuN
Trap vs Solar
Solar vs MaxPax
ByuN vs MaxPax
Trap vs MaxPax
Creator vs MaxPax
ByuN vs Creator
Trap vs Creator
The Three-Winged Angel
4 days
Platinum Heroes Events
4 days
Student Starcraft AI To…
4 days
ESL Pro Tour
5 days
ESL Pro Tour
5 days
ESL Pro Tour
5 days
AfreecaTV Starcraft Tea…
6 days
OlimoLeague
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Polish Starcraft League 3
Cheeseadelphia Winter
MCC 2021 Qualifier 1
BLAST Premier Global Final

Ongoing

Ultimate Battle
Shinhan Tank Proleague S4
BWCL Season 52
ASTL Season 2
BW Jeez weekly GF 2020
WardiTV 2021
2021 AfreecaTV GSL Super Tournament 1
MCC 2021 Qualifiers
NGS Storm Division S2 Quals
NGS Storm Division S2 Qual. 4
ESEA S36 - NA Premier
ESEA S36 - EU Premier
ESEA S36 - AU Premier
cs_summit 7

Upcoming

Bombastic StarLeague 11
Rogue City Rumble
IEM Katowice 2021
Masters Clash Champ. 2021
NGS Storm Division S2 Qual. 7
NGS Storm Division S2 Qual. 6
NGS Storm Division S2 Qual. 5
MCC 2021 Qualifier 2
DH Masters Spring 2021
BLAST Premier Spring Showd.
ESL Pro League Season 13
IEM Katowice 2021
BLAST Premier Spring Groups
DreamHack Open Jan 2021
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2021 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.