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Rasputincz
Czech Republic95 Posts
I post replay i would apprecite if someone can tell me what i did wrong cuz i dont have clue :p Maybe i could use forcefields better but except that i dont know. This situation happense to me everytime i use this build. That was the main reason why i completely stopped using it for some time. Help will be appreciated! ![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-265842.jpg) | ||
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DarKcS
Australia1237 Posts
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Rasputincz
Czech Republic95 Posts
On June 21 2012 23:45 DarKcS wrote: Usually 2 immortals +1 is the recommended timing because you want to hit before the Zerg gets to 160 food. lol. i meant the ideal attack time. When to push or if i lost cuz some other reason... | ||
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Salivanth
Australia1071 Posts
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aZealot
New Zealand5447 Posts
 /leap I like this build though, I've done it a couple of times as my first foray into FFE builds and won each time. Thanks, OP. Edit/ I did feel a little dirty doing it the first time, though. He even had hydras out and it didn't make a difference. | ||
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Cutebone
United States62 Posts
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Salivanth
Australia1071 Posts
aZealot: You're right. It is. Herp derp. | ||
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PlacidPanda
United States246 Posts
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Masvidal
Korea (South)213 Posts
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lorestarcraft
United States1049 Posts
On June 26 2012 11:11 Masvidal wrote: You know what makes this build really good? Making a Stargate instead of a Robo, and making VoidRays instead of Immortals. You have to drop proxy pylons, which is a drawback. But the build can be stopped once the sentries are either sniped or out of energy (if the zerg scouts it, and is good) because immortals can be focused down by roaches (or surrounded by lings). Neither of those things can happen with Voidrays. Something I just started playing around with, and I haven't gotten a full build order worked out yet only doing this build or slight variants with a stargate substituted for robo, VRs substituted for immortals, and proxy pylons substituted for prism, but I can see how there might be something there - the only real options for zerg are hydras or queens, because mutas would take too long with him already committed to roach/ling and aren't good vs mass stalker anyway, and spore crawlers can't move, so they just die to ground army then VRs come in. and both hydras and queens are gas heavy and slow, plus cut down on his roach count, which is good for zealot stalker sentry. just a thought. All that requires more gas which means less sentries, also he can ignore your voids and kill you. | ||
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RemarK
United States452 Posts
On June 26 2012 11:11 Masvidal wrote: You know what makes this build really good? Making a Stargate instead of a Robo, and making VoidRays instead of Immortals. You have to drop proxy pylons, which is a drawback. But the build can be stopped once the sentries are either sniped or out of energy (if the zerg scouts it, and is good) because immortals can be focused down by roaches (or surrounded by lings). Neither of those things can happen with Voidrays. Something I just started playing around with, and I haven't gotten a full build order worked out yet only doing this build or slight variants with a stargate substituted for robo, VRs substituted for immortals, and proxy pylons substituted for prism, but I can see how there might be something there - the only real options for zerg are hydras or queens, because mutas would take too long with him already committed to roach/ling and aren't good vs mass stalker anyway, and spore crawlers can't move, so they just die to ground army then VRs come in. and both hydras and queens are gas heavy and slow, plus cut down on his roach count, which is good for zealot stalker sentry. just a thought. Genius has an excellent void ray into gateway all-in build, it hits with 2-3 void rays and +1 attack around 10:00 mark iirc. Immortals are a lot stronger than void rays vs roaches, but voids are better at denying scouting, forcing different reactions, and you can hit a bit faster. | ||
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jtixs
United Kingdom150 Posts
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Schneeflocke
Canada89 Posts
I love doing this because it puts everything into the protoss's hands, if you can't execute you will get wrecked by smelly roaches. | ||
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Protosnake
France295 Posts
So i feel the need to ask, what exactly stop this all-in ? | ||
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Masvidal
Korea (South)213 Posts
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JLew
Canada353 Posts
On June 26 2012 12:28 RemarK wrote: Genius has an excellent void ray into gateway all-in build, it hits with 2-3 void rays and +1 attack around 10:00 mark iirc. Immortals are a lot stronger than void rays vs roaches, but voids are better at denying scouting, forcing different reactions, and you can hit a bit faster. What GSL games does he do that in? | ||
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FakeDeath
Malaysia6060 Posts
On June 26 2012 11:11 Masvidal wrote: You know what makes this build really good? Making a Stargate instead of a Robo, and making VoidRays instead of Immortals. You have to drop proxy pylons, which is a drawback. But the build can be stopped once the sentries are either sniped or out of energy (if the zerg scouts it, and is good) because immortals can be focused down by roaches (or surrounded by lings). Neither of those things can happen with Voidrays. Something I just started playing around with, and I haven't gotten a full build order worked out yet only doing this build or slight variants with a stargate substituted for robo, VRs substituted for immortals, and proxy pylons substituted for prism, but I can see how there might be something there - the only real options for zerg are hydras or queens, because mutas would take too long with him already committed to roach/ling and aren't good vs mass stalker anyway, and spore crawlers can't move, so they just die to ground army then VRs come in. and both hydras and queens are gas heavy and slow, plus cut down on his roach count, which is good for zealot stalker sentry. just a thought. I disagreed though. Stargate play are easily defended now since zerg has adapted to it. All you need is some queens and roaches and a few spores to defend these stargate with gateway push. Personally, i find it much easier to defend compared to the sentry immortal push. People have shifted more towards robo play since the Stephano 12 min max roach became popular. A early 4 gate +1 pressure on the third of zerg and the followup of robo with 3 immortals or 2 immortals with warp prism is a really strong all-in compared to the void ray+gateway all-in IMO. To beat the sentry/immortal all-in, you must know it is coming before hand AND ENGAGE his sentry/immortal with your lings to force out forcefields when he pushes out or threaten to counterattack and also snipe some sentries since they are they key in the pushes. If you managed to snipe most of the sentries and force out lots of forcefield,you probably hold the push much much easier. Most zerg make the mistakes of building spines and making mass roaches with lings try to beat the army head on which you are not supposed to do. You must flank his army and bait out forcefield and continuously produces more roaches+ lings until you have enough to overwhelm him. Most people make this mistake | ||
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LiSAuCE
United States47 Posts
Makes it even that much stronger. I just tried getting one more immortal and it makes this all in even scarier. | ||
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jdsowa
405 Posts
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LiSAuCE
United States47 Posts
On July 02 2012 08:11 jdsowa wrote: This build is very strong, because barring tremendous mistakes, zerg cannot kill a protoss army straight up unless they have broodlords. The whole issue stems from the fact that the counter to the stalker and the immortal is the zergling. But the zergling can't be effective since protoss moves in a ball. It's incredibly horrible design, but that's the game we've been given. I'm sorry, but that's a false statement. Zerg can absolutely stop this build. Good flanks, focus of sentries, and if they went roach hydra, sniping the warp prism. Not saying this is easy to stop obviously, but you need broodlords to stop this???? Please | ||
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