EPT[G] Stephano-Style ZvP – The 12 Minute Max-Out - Page 3
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yoona2012
Denmark196 Posts
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TangSC
Canada1866 Posts
On March 30 2012 07:24 yoona2012 wrote: nice guide, the "Step 4 - Economic Considerations:" could have been left out. I know what you mean, it doesn't seem like a big deal, but a lot of players neglect the importance of maximizing their mineral economy. I can't emphasize how important it is to reach the 16 drone saturation, drones mining 2 per patch at 3 hatcheries as soon as possible. | ||
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darkscream
Canada2310 Posts
2 base all in all day erryday | ||
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oOOoOphidian
United States1402 Posts
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CrazyF1r3f0x
United States2120 Posts
Oh C'mon that can't be the only way  | ||
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HyperionDreamer
Canada1528 Posts
On March 30 2012 07:34 TangSC wrote: I know what you mean, it doesn't seem like a big deal, but a lot of players neglect the importance of maximizing their mineral economy. I can't emphasize how important it is to reach the 16 drone saturation, drones mining 2 per patch at 3 hatcheries as soon as possible. Fantastic job on this guide Tang. It's got a very different flavour to your normal timing attack guides - good job with producing a macro guide.  | ||
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oOOoOphidian
United States1402 Posts
there is literally an entire thread right next to this one devoted to beating this style. watch drg vs genius from ro32 and finals last season or lucky vs puzzle from gstl, there are tons of 3 base protoss builds in there that defend this | ||
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Fliparoni
205 Posts
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Markwerf
Netherlands3728 Posts
A super fast 6 gate can hit at 8 and you really need to have roaches well under way by then to stop that really. Also one thing I think is good is too simply skip zergling speed. The emphasis is on roaches anyway and you don't need many lings or at all with this guide. Against a +1 attack 6 gate your lings don't do too much and investing in speed for them is not that great imo. Skipping the speed means faster +1 ranged attack so that actually finishes before or during a potential attack. Super fast +2 ranged attack in case of P taking a third is also quite nice. As for when protoss can take a third safely the proper way to handle I think is just to go up to 6 gasses and a 4th base asap and then teching muta or infestors. Gradually you want to switch into a ling style later on as that is just much better with infestor/broods. Getting burrow, burrowmove and drops can all be ok as they often pay themselves off but I think eventually you'll always should be switching to broods/infestor and eventually ling upgrades. | ||
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CrazyF1r3f0x
United States2120 Posts
On March 30 2012 07:51 oOOoOphidian wrote: there is literally an entire thread right next to this one devoted to beating this style. watch drg vs genius from ro32 and finals last season or lucky vs puzzle from gstl, there are tons of 3 base protoss builds in there that defend this Yeah I know about the thread, I was just trying to pull stuff from you Zergies >_> | ||
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Orek
1665 Posts
On March 30 2012 08:16 Markwerf wrote: I think some of the timings are a bit on the late side. Roach warren and evo should probably be 6:30 instead of 7:00 for example. A super fast 6 gate can hit at 8 and you really need to have roaches well under way by then to stop that really. Also one thing I think is good is too simply skip zergling speed. The emphasis is on roaches anyway and you don't need many lings or at all with this guide. Against a +1 attack 6 gate your lings don't do too much and investing in speed for them is not that great imo. Skipping the speed means faster +1 ranged attack so that actually finishes before or during a potential attack. Super fast +2 ranged attack in case of P taking a third is also quite nice. As for when protoss can take a third safely the proper way to handle I think is just to go up to 6 gasses and a 4th base asap and then teching muta or infestors. Gradually you want to switch into a ling style later on as that is just much better with infestor/broods. Getting burrow, burrowmove and drops can all be ok as they often pay themselves off but I think eventually you'll always should be switching to broods/infestor and eventually ling upgrades. Those Roach Warren and Evo timings are something Stephano can still improve in my opinion. Stephano plays more generic and risky way compared to DRG. DRG delays his roach warren and evo chamber by as much as 1 full minute depending on his scouting while Stephano rarely change his timings. Not that Stephano is bad, its just that literally no Protoss in EU and NA are good enough to punish Stephano for playing that way. | ||
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mYiKane
Canada1772 Posts
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MrFrenchy
Canada37 Posts
On March 30 2012 08:46 Malstriks wrote: How do you deal with 2 base colossus/sentry pushes using this build? A well executed 2 colossi push hits at 12 minutes- and in my experience as a protoss it isn't very effective against a maxed roach army. Just make sure to engage him before he hits your third- when the forcefields run out he is dead. | ||
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-KarakStarcraft-
United States258 Posts
On March 30 2012 08:16 Markwerf wrote: I think some of the timings are a bit on the late side. Roach warren and evo should probably be 6:30 instead of 7:00 for example. A super fast 6 gate can hit at 8 and you really need to have roaches well under way by then to stop that really. Also one thing I think is good is too simply skip zergling speed. The emphasis is on roaches anyway and you don't need many lings or at all with this guide. Against a +1 attack 6 gate your lings don't do too much and investing in speed for them is not that great imo. Skipping the speed means faster +1 ranged attack so that actually finishes before or during a potential attack. Super fast +2 ranged attack in case of P taking a third is also quite nice. As for when protoss can take a third safely the proper way to handle I think is just to go up to 6 gasses and a 4th base asap and then teching muta or infestors. Gradually you want to switch into a ling style later on as that is just much better with infestor/broods. Getting burrow, burrowmove and drops can all be ok as they often pay themselves off but I think eventually you'll always should be switching to broods/infestor and eventually ling upgrades. These comments are all really off base. You should study DRG/Stephano replays. Skipping ling speed is awful. The 6:30 Roach Warren is only if you scout the early pressure or 6 gate coming. You can't be scared of monsters under the bed or you fall behind. That and no one 6 gates anymore. | ||
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VoirDire
Sweden1923 Posts
11:00 Roach/Ling Aggression with +1 (No additional gas) You should have a large army of roaches with +1 and speed completed or nearly so. Deny 3rd base, pressure protoss natural (kill units, cyber core, force him to use Force Field) I think it should be emphasized that the the whole build revolves around a roach/ling timing more of less is exactly @10:30 with ~150 supply in ling/roach. If you get lair with the first 100 gas roach speed and +1 will finish at 10:30 and then you should be able to strike immediately, anything else is sub-optimal. It's also almost never a good idea to max out on roaches. Other than that, great guide! | ||
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Markwerf
Netherlands3728 Posts
On March 30 2012 09:16 Karak wrote: These comments are all really off base. You should study DRG/Stephano replays. Skipping ling speed is awful. The 6:30 Roach Warren is only if you scout the early pressure or 6 gate coming. You can't be scared of monsters under the bed or you fall behind. That and no one 6 gates anymore. I'm not saying you should always have a fast roach warren but any time you see the +1 being researched right away along with the 3rd/4th gas not being taken too fast you would be better off with a faster roach warren as either just +1 zealot pressure or some sort of 6/7/8 gate is quite likely then. And don't be so stupid to think 6 gate isn't anymore, it's still being used a lot (6, 7 or 8 gate really is the same, 7th and 8th gate are not really neccesary but often used anyways). As for skipping ling speed temporarily, it is really good. Against pressure you'll not be needing the ling speed as you should be making practically pure roach, for pushing the third you don't need it either. If you decide not to mass roaches you can always get ling speed still. | ||
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Mithridates
United States446 Posts
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MilesTeg
France1271 Posts
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MilesTeg
France1271 Posts
On March 30 2012 10:21 Mithridates wrote: Good luck trying to take a third nexus against this build. I expect that 2 base allins out of Protoss will become more prominent because of this build Not trying to give you a miracle solution, but one way to start is to not take a 3rd at the worst possible moment (around the 12th minute when he's maxed). A quicker 3rd around 8:00 is the way to go IMO; turtling may have its merits too. | ||
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MilesTeg
France1271 Posts
On March 30 2012 09:16 Karak wrote: These comments are all really off base. You should study DRG/Stephano replays. Skipping ling speed is awful. The 6:30 Roach Warren is only if you scout the early pressure or 6 gate coming. You can't be scared of monsters under the bed or you fall behind. That and no one 6 gates anymore. You should be scared of the monsters, people need to stop relying on scouting so much or that's the best way to get stupid, build order losses. But anyway RW at 7:00 is way early enough. | ||
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