EPTGood work though, it's updated to be more like how stephano plays it, and while there's already several guides on the matter, this is definitely the most comprehensive and well written one.
[G] Stephano-Style ZvP – The 12 Minute Max-Out - Page 5
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Tobberoth
Sweden6375 Posts
Good work though, it's updated to be more like how stephano plays it, and while there's already several guides on the matter, this is definitely the most comprehensive and well written one. | ||
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enykie
Germany64 Posts
I would only build roaches as long as he tries to take the third, after that you need to transition into somehing. (diamond level) | ||
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oOOoOphidian
United States1402 Posts
On March 30 2012 18:35 enykie wrote: The counter is: maxout of 2 bases with stalker/colosus or do drops. There is a good chance that, the zerg misses the window to get additional gases up plus spire/spines for corrupter. I often got steamrolled after i denied their third and maxed out with roaches. I would only build roaches as long as he tries to take the third, after that you need to transition into somehing. (diamond level) If you deny the third I recommend going muta because they won't have the gas to properly stop it and mutas help you deny their economy and prevent them from getting a deathball. Faster BL/Infestor is also an option, though you absolutely have to hit a timing before they attack with 3+ colossus or get a mothership deathball. | ||
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Tobberoth
Sweden6375 Posts
On March 30 2012 18:35 enykie wrote: The counter is: maxout of 2 bases with stalker/colosus or do drops. There is a good chance that, the zerg misses the window to get additional gases up plus spire/spines for corrupter. I often got steamrolled after i denied their third and maxed out with roaches. I would only build roaches as long as he tries to take the third, after that you need to transition into somehing. (diamond level) It's a quite common transition to start building the spire as you move forward with your roaches. As you trade armies and deny third, you remax on muta/ling instead of roaches, which means that any units which are really strong vs roaches are hardcountered immediately in the next attack. | ||
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Sebast1aan
Belgium163 Posts
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Grimmid
Romania4 Posts
 (. Why you maked this guide . Is a great one btw. | ||
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Markwerf
Netherlands3728 Posts
Overall it really just depends on the map how to counter this. On maps with an easy third like entombed valley you can hold this attack easily with stargate into sentries and some (semi) walls and then proceed to kill them with colossi of three bases before hive hits (zerg is better off not trying the roach spam but teching quicker). On maps with a slightly harder to defend third but where muta's are fairly weak as cloud kingdom straight robo after FFE does well. With fast immortals/stalker/sentry you can expand just fine and blink can stop muta's quite well on this map, plus the map is small so it's easy to push before broods come out. Finally on maps like korhal compound or tal darim, ie. the third is hard to take fast and muta play is quite strong you can only do a strong 2 base attack now imo. Two base attacks are also very hard to hold for Z on those maps and if they follow the timings in this guide they will usually be too late too hold. If they really cut drones early and defend well you could probably transition from a blink timing into a third. | ||
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TangSC
Canada1866 Posts
On March 30 2012 19:35 Tobberoth wrote: It's a quite common transition to start building the spire as you move forward with your roaches. As you trade armies and deny third, you remax on muta/ling instead of roaches, which means that any units which are really strong vs roaches are hardcountered immediately in the next attack. I see IdrA and Darkforce go spire quite early in ZvP and aim for a giant muta flock in late game. I'm a big fan of Muta/Roach/Ling, though I never see it from Stephano. | ||
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Oerbaa
Scotland184 Posts
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TangSC
Canada1866 Posts
On March 31 2012 00:46 Oerbaa wrote: Really nice guide, looking forward to the next one hope its "DRG ZvT - The 8:40 Roach/Ling/Baneling "All-In or Is it?", i thought it was Violet who first started doing this though, anyways this should help my Zvp :D ty again I know violet does it too, but I saw DRG do it first - not sure who actually invented it. | ||
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freetgy
1720 Posts
not like it was very enjoyable before that. | ||
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TangSC
Canada1866 Posts
On March 31 2012 03:05 freetgy wrote: PvZ will become so unplayable 8/ not like it was very enjoyable before that. Well Stephano's style is certainly difficult to play against, but that doesn't mean PvZ is unplayable. It can be frustrating but you have to remember no matter what level you play at, your opponent will make mistakes. Also, if you're really on your game and lining up your timings perfectly, you can force Zerg to make mistakes. Don't ever get in the habit of thinking "X build is too strong I can't win," especially when there is a community of players ready to help you out if you ask! | ||
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Warzilla
Czech Republic311 Posts
On March 31 2012 05:45 TangSC wrote: Well Stephano's style is certainly difficult to play against, but that doesn't mean PvZ is unplayable. It can be frustrating but you have to remember no matter what level you play at, your opponent will make mistakes. Also, if you're really on your game and lining up your timings perfectly, you can force Zerg to make mistakes. Don't ever get in the habit of thinking "X build is too strong I can't win," especially when there is a community of players ready to help you out if you ask! Some clever person once said that relying on a opponent making mistakes isnt a good way of thinking  | ||
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TangSC
Canada1866 Posts
On March 31 2012 06:04 YosHGo wrote: Some clever person once said that relying on a opponent making mistakes isnt a good way of thinking Haha well I didn't necessarily mean relying on your opponent to make mistakes, but you should always know your opponent isn't perfect and be confident in your own abilities. . .Each time I play Stephano I tell myself I'm going to win. I never do win. But I still tell myself I will! | ||
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Geiko
France1944 Posts
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Forbidden17
666 Posts
On March 31 2012 17:29 Geiko wrote: This style is quite good, but I've heard it can be very tricky to defend 7minute 5 warp gate pushes followed by 7 gate blink stalker all-ins. how exactly do you get warpgate to complete before the 7min mark off a ffe? o.o | ||
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aebriol
Norway2066 Posts
On March 31 2012 18:04 Forbidden17 wrote: how exactly do you get warpgate to complete before the 7min mark off a ffe? o.o You make the gates around 7 minutes and warp in at 8:10 or so Build time is 65 in game seconds. He just worded that weirdly. | ||
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Geiko
France1944 Posts
On March 31 2012 18:04 Forbidden17 wrote: how exactly do you get warpgate to complete before the 7min mark off a ffe? o.o I call it the UltraGreedy GFE against Z who I expect will be playing greedy. You basically skip scout, go nexus first, and instead of going Forge gate pylon gas, you go gate gas pylon forge and skip the cannon all together, just get a zealot to defend. With a proxy pylon you can warp at their base at 7:00 with six +1 zealots. Warp gate is so early that if your opponent is doing a 2 base all-in, you can defend it with first round of warpins, otherwise, it just hits a timing that zergs aren't used to. On March 31 2012 18:08 aebriol wrote: You make the gates around 7 minutes and warp in at 8:10 or so Build time is 65 in game seconds. He just worded that weirdly. No I really warp things at 6:50 ^^ | ||
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Forbidden17
666 Posts
On March 31 2012 18:08 aebriol wrote: You make the gates around 7 minutes and warp in at 8:10 or so Build time is 65 in game seconds. He just worded that weirdly. edit: nvm he clarified and i posted this around the same time | ||
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Forbidden17
666 Posts
On March 31 2012 18:11 Geiko wrote: I call it the UltraGreedy GFE against Z who I expect will be playing greedy. You basically skip scout, go nexus first, and instead of going Forge gate pylon gas, you go gate gas pylon forge and skip the cannon all together, just get a zealot to defend. With a proxy pylon you can warp at their base at 7:00 with six +1 zealots. Warp gate is so early that if your opponent is doing a 2 base all-in, you can defend it with first round of warpins, otherwise, it just hits a timing that zergs aren't used to. wow sounds a little risky, I assume it's only viable if you scout a gassless opening? would you do this against a zerg who takes gas? as your build sounds optimized for that early +1 zealot timing with the first (i'm assuming first?) warp-in, what if your opponent hits you with a ling/baneling all in, would you have the gas to warp in sentries reactively? | ||
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