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Latchy
Australia121 Posts
On March 30 2012 06:43 Maitolasi wrote: TDA - 4gate wars Metalopolis - so tired of this map Antiga - I can't deal with terran drops on this map This | ||
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Berailfor
441 Posts
On March 30 2012 06:27 synd wrote: I laugh pretty hard at your reasons why you veto X maps because they're mainly wrong. Anyway here are my vetos and a little more insight about the maps Vetos: Taldarim Altar LE, why? -The 4g threat in PvP -A lot of proxy locations -Long rush distances are arguably good for PvT but they also make mutas super good because of their mobility and you can't counter attack too because of the distance -6-10pool are pretty much free entry to your base because of the huge distance to cover with a wallin Metalopolis -Again a lot of proxy locations -FFE is literally fucked up because of the huge distance to cover. Ling/bling or roach allins are ultra viable -Very hard to take 3rd/4th -1/1/1 - the ramp is that awful :/ Most likely my 3rd veto will be Ohana because I didn't have the chance to play around with it. I don't know anything about the standard proxy locations, viable builds, proxy pylons and etc. I just need more time to give my opinion Now about the remaining map pool which you bashed because of your bad reasoning. I'll say only about Korhal/Entombed and Antiga which imo you hate the most. Korhal: 1/1/1 isn't viable here because of the long rush distance and the terrain. There are a lot of high/low grounds where you can force a lot of tank siege downs and delay the rush enough for you to counter it perfectly. Now about the FFE wallin -> just check this thread Drops are also easy to hold because there's no empty space behind the bases and you can easily places some cannons and a HT or two to complete deny them. The only problem is the 3rd base which isn't hard at all to take and defend in PvZ (except for infested terrans spam from high ground) but I really dislike it PvT since that game of Stephano vs Polt (pre-MLG, can't remember the tournament) where Polt just hugged the walls with the sieged tanks and completely destroyed him. The 3rd definitely needs to get redesigned. Entombed Valley The rush distances are awful, okay I agree on this. FFE is really easy to do, if you watch GSL you'll see that the toss players cover it really easily by covering only 1/2 of the ramp. I'd say that even early pool rushed are hard to do here. Drop play can be completely denied by placing cannons at sides of the bases and 1/2 HTs because there's no empty space The 3rd is ultra easy to defend Antiga Shipyard FFE is a pain in the ass on some spawn locations but mostly you'll need a 2 cannon coverage if you're gonna wallin near the Nexus which I like more because of the mid/late game. Still FFE near the ramp is also good No, blink stalkers aren't good at this map because if you split your army well you can completely deny them and just make an expand of 2 immortals. Again drops are easy to deny because there's no empty space and cannons on sides and 1/2HTs deny them. The 3rd is also easy to take, I don't know how easier can it get? (except for entombed valley easy xD). The rush distances are also okay and it's pretty much a balanced map except for the big problem which is taking a 4th base... First at foremost, your post is appreciated to the community in the sense that you put effort into explaining your PoV and thoughts. Now lets get onto the problems. You bash another player telling saying "because of your bad reasoning." which we have no clue first of all what league your in, second of all you could word that in a way to not basically give an "F you" to the person your talking to. And you SHOULD as team liquid is against direct player bashing like that. Next, we don't even know who your addressing as you didn't quote anyone. And if we are on "bad reasoning." well proxies on TDA is the worst thing I've ever heard of, the best position would be midmap and the distance from there is still long enough that you should be loling at the noob who tried it. Second, a 7-10 pool will easily be fended off with a cannon placed down on a standard forge timing. And a 6 pool on any map you should expect them to get into your base, and defend in the adequate forge first manner of placing pylon at your mineral line. Your reason for walling at your nexus on antiga is also extremely flawed. The ONLY reason it's decent is to stop early pools from killing you. The mid/lategame you speak of is worse as it allows easier busts up your ramp and WAAYYY easier runbys when your out on the map. Also many people here have VERY valid reasons for not liking Korhal. So all in all. Even though your post was long and thought out by you. YOU tell other people their reasoning is bad. Yet I can see MANY flaws in your reasoning. So please, next time refrain from doing such in such an impolite manner and maybe I would be so inclined to point out the things you said that were blatantly wrong. | ||
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Sated
England4983 Posts
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hzflank
United Kingdom2991 Posts
In theory I really like Antiga, but I actually get a lower winrate on it than any other map. If I had a 4th veto it would be Korhal. | ||
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Sakray
France2198 Posts
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Ozira
Sweden150 Posts
I will probably veto tal'darim, been playing it for ever, I like it, but PvP is so frustrating on it, maybe Metalopolis too, not sure though. Havent played much on Ohana but it looks decent atleast | ||
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-y0shi-
Germany994 Posts
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Lassepetri
Denmark112 Posts
On a different note, and slightly off topic I guess, I was wondering whether there were maps which was regarded OP for toss? We hear about zerg OP maps (fx rampless nat) and terran OP maps (fx dropfriendly). When is a map OP from a toss PoV, and are there maps in the S7 pool, that should be considered toss overpowered? Thanks | ||
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Nactra
France3 Posts
Antiga shipyard: Use of a non tournament feature (gold) last veto will probably be Tal darim altar. i'm fine with 4gate wars but i think a map this big is too far ahead of our current metagame. | ||
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Arcanefrost
Belgium1257 Posts
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Anari
United States9 Posts
On April 03 2012 18:50 -y0shi- wrote: Why dont more people veto korhal? Taking a 3rd there seems to be dual-sight level of impossible against zerg I love Korhal not only because the Tileset is awesome and how it creates some very fun games, but because in a PvZ I have found that they are met with similar limitations of grabbing the third as we do. I have found that blink stalkers have the ability to be as mobile as a zerg force. This mobility allows you to safely snipe the third before the zerg is able to get his units their to protect it. But, take my words with a grain of salt because I am only in Platinum league. + Show Spoiler + I am going to be vetoing: -TDA - Because fuck 4gates -Metal - I am tired of this map, and I don't like it vs Z -Antiga - Not even sure why, I just don't like playing on it. | ||
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Gladiator6
Sweden7024 Posts
1. Shattered Temple 2. Metalopolis 3. Korhal I'm not really so good with analyzing, but I analyze some of the pros that has the highest winrate on ladder. And their vetoes are same as mine, I know it's kind of silly but they probably know more than I do, and most of their vetoes makes sense. I will probably veto as they do in next season as well. | ||
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Balgrog
United States1221 Posts
2) Metalopolis, FFE is hard to hold, trying to FFE is impossible in the upper left spawn. Stoping drops from doing alot of damage when close air is miserable and near impossible. 3) Korhal Compound, vs. Z that map is the biggest pain in the ass, basically no matter what you do you SHOULD lose to a speedling 1 base all in, 4 wall wall off is a pain in the fucking ass, takes for ever to get up, with the speedling "all-in" they can keep you on 1 base, in the beginning, and if you FFE it's basically GG | ||
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Sated
England4983 Posts
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Dujek
United Kingdom276 Posts
On April 03 2012 18:50 -y0shi- wrote: Why dont more people veto korhal? Taking a 3rd there seems to be dual-sight level of impossible against zerg In Apollo's video tutorial about Korhal he shows you that it's easier to wall of your fourth than your third. And if you can defend that you basically get a free base. At first I didn't like the map but it's becoming one of my favourites now that I know how to FFE properly on it. | ||
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Nikoras
United States115 Posts
Korhal doesn't bother me because 2 pronged aggression is so potent on that map PvZ. Would veto Antiga but I'm hesitant because it's kind of a widely accepted tournament map | ||
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Skyro
United States1823 Posts
Drops seem harder to stop on Shattered Temple than on Antiga for me. Easier to defend with a few well-placed cannons. That smoke area is a PITA on Antiga is really annoying but not as annoying as that ledge behind your main mineral lines on Shattered where dropships can hide. Also I don't really like how Shattered basically forces super late game scenarios since there is essentially 1 choke that you can defend (with PFs and mass spines) which protects 6(!) bases. On Antiga you get much earlier aggression since the 4th is hard to take which leads to more interesting games. edit: oh I forgot they removed Shattered. Rather remove Korhal though than Antiga. | ||
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Chemist391
United States368 Posts
Let's see a poll in the OP? | ||
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hersimp
Norway40 Posts
I really am not comfortable on this map in PvZ. Not really in PvT either. The distance to the third is horrible. Plus the high ground above it might cause trouble sometimes. Siege Tanks, Brood lords etc. I dont think there will be others now that Shattered are gone tho. Have'nt decided about Daybreak yet. I think it's a hard map in PvZ since the 3rd is abit far away, plus the entrance up to the natural might easily cause trouble when defending agression at the 3rd. 2base all-ins are a good alternative, but its a big map so dunno how effective it will be. The opponent will have good time to prepare. You also need really good observer/scouting placements in PvT i think, to avoid stim snipes of the expo I love that Metropolis is in the pool now. One of my favourites. I also really like Cloud Kingdom | ||
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K3Nyy
United States1961 Posts
TDA PvP is so fun, I don't know why everyone hates it lol. Never tried Ohana but from what I remember it didn't look that good. | ||
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