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[G]Map Distance & Travel Time
What’s New Jan. 13 2013 Added new maps for 2013 Ladder Season 1 = Akilon Flats and Newkirk District Dec. 18 2012 Ninja added 4 non-ladder maps: Metropolis, Whirlwind, Abyssal City, and Bel'shir Vestige. Updated Ohana image and How to Read section on Stalker/Zergling movement speed =2.95. + Show Spoiler + June 13 2012 Added Condemned Ridge as Season 8 started. Removed old maps. Used smaller images for better layout. June 07 2012 Added non-worker movement speed travel time images. Cut many contents to make this thread simple and focused. Apr. 12 2012 Rearranged contents as Season 7 started. Better Daybreak LE image is introduced. Mar. 30 2012 Added annouced Season 7 ladder maps = Daybreak LE, Metropolis LE and Ohana LE. Changed some contents accordingly.
Oops! Late to the party… Introduction I’m pretty sure many of you have experienced similar situation to the picture above. Had I sent my drone a little bit earlier, the drone could have gotten into Terran base. I knew that 2nd Supply Depot would usually go down at 2min 50sec. What I didn’t know was how long a drone would take to travel from my base to opponent’s base. To avoid this scenario, I did some research on worker travel time and map distance. Since it took hours to finish, I thought sharing my research with community would save many people’s time. The research was originally done for scout timings, but it should be useful for any early game push/cheese, defending against them, or choosing strategy based on map distance. Shorter travel time means that early push is easier to pull off = harder to defend, and that having slow units doesn't punish mobility as much. This is still a work in progress. New ladder maps will be updated, and new contents will be added with requests. Please leave comments if you find this thread helpful.
Sample Image WORKER movement speed=2.81 SCV, Drone, Probe, DT, Archon + Show Spoiler +Akilon Flats & Newkirk District Cloud Kingdom & Daybreak Ohana & Antiga Shipyard Condemned Ridge & Entombed Valley Shakuras Plateau & Tal’darim Altar Metropolis & Whirlwind Abyssal City & Bel'shir Vestige
STANDARD movement speed=2.25 Marine, Marauder, Ghost, Siege Tank, Viking(ground), Roach, Hydralisk, Infestor, Zealot, Sentry, Immortal, Colossus + Show Spoiler +Akilon Flats & Newkirk District Cloud Kingdom & Daybreak Ohana & Antiga Shipyard Condemned Ridge & Entombed Valley Shakuras Plateau & Tal’darim Altar Metropolis & Whirlwind Abyssal City & Bel'shir Vestige
SLOW movement speed=1.88 Thor, HT + Show Spoiler +Akilon Flats & Newkirk District Cloud Kingdom & Daybreak Ohana & Antiga Shipyard Condemned Ridge & Entombed Valley Shakuras Plateau & Tal’darim Altar Metropolis & Whirlwind Abyssal City & Bel'shir Vestige
How to read + Show Spoiler +For the most part, images should be self-explanatory, but there are several things you need to keep in mind in interpreting the numbers in the images. 1. Numbers in images are in [Blizzard Seconds], not real seconds. 2. Starting point at each base is always south side of CC/Hatchery/Nexus. This is because this research was originally done for my Zerg drone scout timings. (larvae always spawn at south side) Most maps today are symmetrical, but distances to first ramp are different from one starting position to another because of this. 3.Allow for a margin of error. No external program was used to measure all distances. In fact, I just sent a drone while watching the timer. 30seconds is somewhere between 29.1-30.9 sec or so, but not 35 sec for sure. 4.On maps where there is a clear choke point or another ramp in front of natural base that is reasonably far enough from the ramp at main base, (Shakuras Plateru for example) distance to each ramp/choke is shown in images. On other maps where natural's choke point is close to the main ramp, (Daybreak for example) distance is shown only to the main ramp. 5.Units can take multiple paths. Paths for A->B and B->A are different on some maps and the directions are shown with arrows. 6.Green lines instead of yellow lines mean no close position spawns. Whenever a scouting worker arrives at an intersection with a green line for the first time in game, the path in green line should not be taken because there is 0% chance your opponent’s base is there. Only after scouting 1 base, should the scouting worker take a green path to scout 2nd possible place for opponent’s base. In other words, when a worker takes a green path, you “already know” where your opponent is. 7.Blue lines are used for paths that are blocked by destructable rocks at start. 8.Travel time for 2.25 and 1.88 are not from direct test results but calculated from 2.81 results. +25% for 2.25 and +50% for 1.88 from 2.81 results. 9. Stalker and Zergling have 2.95 movement speed, which have about -5% traveling time from 2.81 results. Rounding and measurement margin of error makes -5% decrease fairly insignificant. I've decided it's not worth my time to make another images just for stalker/zergling because the difference is 2 sec maximum even for the longest distance. Without decimal number level accuracy, it is almost pointless. Just subtract 1~2 seconds from 2.81 worker speed images for long distances if needed. 10.Marine=2.25 applies to all units with 2.25 movement speed. Units' movement speeds are for those without any upgrades = roach without glial reconstitution, zealot without charge etc. Same for other movement speeds. 11. All images are from Liquipedia page http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Maps#1v1_2Some images are different from actual ladder maps of those used in tournaments. However, the test was done with actual maps, so the results can be trusted regardless of the images that do not match exactly to ladder/tournament maps.
Orek's Articles/Guides + Show Spoiler +
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Very helpful research Thanks for the work you put into this. I personally would like to see the time it takes slow roaches to travel across a given map, and also speedlings (since I use these units most often). Thinking about travel time on different maps could be a very important factor in perfecting given timing attacks.
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Awesome stuff, many thanks!! I always wondered about these numbers, but I was too lazy to do what you did.
Orek, keeping me lazy since 2012.
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Orek, thanks for taking the time to share this research! Anything to get an edge.
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Added Season 7 Maps announced recently.
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Thank you <3, good work man
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wrong ohana image. Might wanna fix that
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Nice. Thx for your work!
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On April 01 2012 05:47 IronManSC wrote: wrong ohana image. Might wanna fix that
Hi. OP here. Thank you for pointing that out. I didn't notice that. Since I got all images from Liquipedia, and thats the only image for Ohana there, I might have to use it for now until new one gets uploaded. Daybreak is 6m1hyg version as well in the image. I will edit and mention to avoid confusion. Thank you.
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Wow the scout timings are fairly close to each other with this map pool, the biggest factor that impacts play will be number of starting locations and the meta of build X or Y being more likely simply because of matchup/map.
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United States8476 Posts
Really cool. Can you do Calm before the Storm just for fun and to see just how far those distances are?
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map symmetry is indeed screwed up in some maps
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a while ago? that's almost 2 years old
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Thank you, been looking for something like this. Appreciate it
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That's funny. 42 seconds between Metalopolis cross and 44 seconds between TDA cross. Never realized that.
Thanks for the work.
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Blizzard really needs to make sure that their maps are symettrical. Having a longer distance to your ramp is worse, so they should make it the same for all spawns, so one player doesn't get a significant advantage right away.
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It's great to actually see these numbers.
I am curious as to if the daybreak numbers assume the rocks in the middle are up or down. Does that dramatically change travel time?
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On April 11 2012 00:44 Arcane86 wrote: It's great to actually see these numbers.
I am curious as to if the daybreak numbers assume the rocks in the middle are up or down. Does that dramatically change travel time?
it's assuming the rocks are up, if they're down it shaves about 5 seconds off.
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I wanted to add a creep worksheet.
http://tinyurl.com/c2tf45n
Note that the spreadsheet itself is locked. You'll have to copy the whole thing into a different spreadsheet file to use it.
Between this worksheet and the data you provided, a zerg player (or someone playing against a zerg) should be able to calculate travel times under varying degrees of creep coverage. It's crude but should offer a reasonable approximation.
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Hi, OP here. Contents are rearranged for new Season 7.
On April 11 2012 00:44 Arcane86 wrote: It's great to actually see these numbers.
I am curious as to if the daybreak numbers assume the rocks in the middle are up or down. Does that dramatically change travel time? Introduced new and better Daybreak LE image to answer this question.
On April 10 2012 15:56 kofman wrote: Blizzard really needs to make sure that their maps are symettrical. Having a longer distance to your ramp is worse, so they should make it the same for all spawns, so one player doesn't get a significant advantage right away. As I wrote it in How to Read section no.2, those numbers to main ramps are from southern side of CC/Hatchery/Nexus where larvae pop for Zerg. Most maps today are symmetrical in that regard
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Thanks for your work. These things are always great to look at.
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awesome work. maybe a bit on which scouting worker to send (i.e. 12 or 14) to get into base before the rax/depot block off the ramp
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OP here. Added non-worker movement speed travel time. 2.25 movement speed data should be most helpful as many early units such as marine, roach, zealot etc. are all 2.25. Many early game cheese/pushes involve these units, so knowing travel time of these units must be crucial.
Looking forward to hearing further feedbacks.
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Great topic, very useful to know when expecting sillyness such as cheese or some sort of weird all-in. Thanks for posting this and putting a ton of time into this.
Keep up the good work.
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OP here. Added New Season 8 Map "Condemned Ridge" As you can see from images, this map is even bigger than Tal'darim Altar. Maps are getting bigger and bigger each season. Cheese is getting harder and harder to pull off... maybe for good. Less rage quit, more love.
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Thank you for your hard work! This is very helpful
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This is pretty useful. Really helps vs those terrans that wall off super fast (I'm protoss).
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Wow Condemned Ridge is so big on 5 and 11 positions, this just gives me another reason to veto it. I doubt it will stay for more then 1 season.
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First time i read this post, was just now. To the OP, your a man of my caliber! I like it, because too many are simply judging a map by its analyzer numbers. I do cross checks my self, and using different test groups of mobs, from various locations in the map. Good to see that there are more people able to think for them selfs. ( not to be rude to anyone )
Your a analyzer your self, and im guessing your pretty systematic when you do stuff too hehe. I analyze my self every waking second, because its a part of my diagnosis, even it does make a lot of problems, it has its advantages.
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I too would love to see this sort of analysis done for slow roaches on all the ladder maps, that would be pretty swell to see:D But I agree with everyone else, thank you for your hard work, and not being lazy like the rest of us...
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Awesome research and many thanks for the time you put into this!
It looks like that whenever you spawn in a south location you can pretty much expect that if there is anything asymmetrical its on your side and its relatively "safe" to calculate an extra 1-2 seconds of travel time compared to north spawning.
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On March 29 2012 01:14 Orek wrote: ... new contents will be added with requests ...
1. The Stalker (movement speed = 2.9531) would be a useful addition, since he is often used early on. 2. Total travel time for lings on the maps (hard on the 4 player maps of course, easy on Ohana) would be nice. With one glance you could see when a 15 pool arrives at your natural (or main). Maybe ling timings are enough for an own thread, though ...
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Do you think you might update this? For GSL maps and such.
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On November 16 2012 18:40 IPS.Blue wrote: The Stalker (movement speed = 2.9531) would be a useful addition, since he is often used early on. Good suggestion. Stalker =Zergling, so it would help for early pool situations as well.
On December 13 2012 23:59 Semmo wrote: Do you think you might update this? For GSL maps and such. Honestly, I never expected that ladder map pool would be this stagnant. Nothing has changed for half a year now since the introduction of Condemned Ridge in June. My original intention was to maintain up-to-date ladder maps in this thread, but now that you mentioned it and considering how Blizzard has been reluctant to introduce new maps, I guess including non-ladder maps wouldn't hurt. Thanks for asking.
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OP here. Finally new maps for ladder Jan. 13 2013 Added new maps for 2013 Ladder Season 1 = Akilon Flats and Newkirk District
I've waited this day for ... 7 months lol.
On June 13 2012 12:45 Orek wrote: OP here. Added New Season 8 Map "Condemned Ridge" As you can see from images, this map is even bigger than Tal'darim Altar. Maps are getting bigger and bigger each season. Cheese is getting harder and harder to pull off... maybe for good. Less rage quit, more love.
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this is really awesome, thank you op for putting time and effort into this!
I love when old threads like these get bumped because im too lazy to search for them but Im curious enough that reading them is really fun :D
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Thank you for keeping this thread updated! Really helps a lot.
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Yet again another bad excuse I got from a player... He said that Akilon's path was longer than any ladder maps. But all I can see is that it's even one of the shortest path we're ever getting... Oh well. Thank you for your effort though. Greatly appreciated.
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Some of these values are actually really surprising, but things you have to remember are that most of the time the time it takes to move from the main building to your ramp does not matter, you should calculate based on ramps when you want to look at rush timings.
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Excuse the necro, but it would be nice to continue this thread with updates for the new maps. Would be a handy resource to have.
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On April 21 2013 04:54 xxjcdentonxx wrote: Excuse the necro, but it would be nice to continue this thread with updates for the new maps. Would be a handy resource to have. I think you can't edit thread this old, although maybe the mods will allow it, but that will only happen if the OP is still active .
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On May 11 2013 07:36 moskonia wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2013 04:54 xxjcdentonxx wrote: Excuse the necro, but it would be nice to continue this thread with updates for the new maps. Would be a handy resource to have. I think you can't edit thread this old, although maybe the mods will allow it, but that will only happen if the OP is still active .
Unfortunately, I (OP) don't have HotS, nor do I have plan to get one in the near future. Therefore, none of my threads, including this one, will be updated at least for several months to come. But no special skill is required to check map distance/travel time, so anyone can make a similar thread for HotS as long as the person is willing to continue to update it all the way to the end of HotS.
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