EPT[G] PvZ - 3 Base 3 Col vs 3 Hatch - Page 4
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xlava
United States676 Posts
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ZeromuS
Canada13410 Posts
This has been doing quite well for me but there are 2 situations I need some help in 1-- On Antiga, when I FFE they take the gold, how should I respond? If I see it early vs. late 2 -- If they go for mutas anyway and I shut them down very hard, is there a particular way i should proceed or just proceed as normal? With someone on my CSL team he went mass roach after I shut down the mutas and he busted my third on Shakuras Plateau. | ||
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Alejandrisha
United States6565 Posts
On March 22 2012 05:23 ZeromuS wrote: Ok Alej, I have two questions. This has been doing quite well for me but there are 2 situations I need some help in 1-- On Antiga, when I FFE they take the gold, how should I respond? If I see it early vs. late 2 -- If they go for mutas anyway and I shut them down very hard, is there a particular way i should proceed or just proceed as normal? With someone on my CSL team he went mass roach after I shut down the mutas and he busted my third on Shakuras Plateau. 1- need to know if he takes his nat behind it or not. if he doesn't, big ass roach or bling bust coming your way. if he does, i find a colo or immortal + 7gate timing does the trick... IDK if you can safely take your 3rd after that, as any 3 base bust will be that much stronger after he takes the gold. 2- in the past when i've shut down the mutas without taking much damage, 2 colossus + mass bstalker and the sentries you had anyway will do the trick. I usually get storm tech just in case, and cut colo earlier and switch into immortals for the transition--if he transitions into anything else (besides muta ling bling, in which case either hit with your colo before it gets out of hand or wait til you have some storm up), he's playing it pretty damn risky | ||
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Qxz
Canada189 Posts
On March 14 2012 04:49 kcdc wrote:(...) This is exactly what I was going to say. I've been doing the "Stephano/DRG-style" 12 min 200/200 roach push well before people started calling it Stephano/DRG-style, and I rarely see protosses holding that even on 2 bases. So even at pro level (which I'm far from), I don't see how they could ever defend a 3rd. The army described in the OP at 12:30 (1 Void ray, 4-5 Phoenixes, 7-8 Sentries, m Some safety Stalkers, if needed, Some zealots, +1/+1 ground upgrades, 1 Colossus) will certainly not hold it.I don't know how to beat the Stephano style, but I don't think SG into colossus with a 13 minute third is the solution. Too much tech, not enough meat on the army, too late on 3-base production if Z ever manages to trade units. Well, perhaps on Entombed Valley because that's a very easy to defend third, but on Antiga? Shakuras? Tal'Darim even? I don't think so. | ||
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RandomRice
United States303 Posts
On March 21 2012 08:15 Alejandrisha wrote: tried this vs hyun in playhem but he smashed me so hard with ling hydra with some roaches. i don't think it was the build, just that i've been playing vs zergs that weren't bw progamers :D will keep practicing! Alej, I've been practicing this build against my friend who plays a lot on the Korean server. He says that Protosses on KR do a similar build but instead of making phoenix behind 1 void, they chrono out 3 void rays and do a +1 zealot/voidray timing(off of 4 gates) against the zerg's third before taking a 3rd nexus and transitioning to colossus(the expo timing is slightly later but still before 10 minutes). It feels a lot safer and more powerful against a fast 3 hatch opener. We feel phoenixes don't apply enough pressure against a strong zerg who can defend against phoenix (making enough spores, keeping ovies alive) and they can still drone freely and do whatever the hell they want. Additionally, 3 void rays have a lot more staying power against the Stephano/DRG 12 minute roach max timing attack. Ideally you keep them alive after your timing and fly around the edge of their main/creep and contain them until they get some sort of lair tech to deal with them. What do you think about incorporating the zealot/voidray timing into the build instead of a phoenix followup? I wish I had some replays of our practice games but I didn't save any. T.T edit-Derp. I should have read the previous comments more carefully. this has already been brought up but not addressed. T.T On March 09 2012 17:50 CuHz wrote: i sometimes do a simliar build / style; but i pump out voids pretty much constantly to deal with corruptors or overlord drops whats your opinion on keepin the SG pumpin voids. vs mass'ing gateway stalkers instead. On March 09 2012 05:25 kcdc wrote: Yeah, that attack is why I favor doing a strong zealot+void timing at 8:20 rather than vanilla void+phoenix harass. A well-executed zealot+void pressure makes the speed roach timing much smaller. | ||
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-orb-
United States5770 Posts
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Borkbokbork
United States123 Posts
Most zergs will not attempt BL production unless they have 4 bases, correct? Shouldn't a Zerg be on 4 bases if we are on three? (yes I watched replays) | ||
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Alejandrisha
United States6565 Posts
immortal/blink feels safer on maps where colo can be dangerous. http://drop.sc/140435 http://drop.sc/140823 http://drop.sc/140825 http://drop.sc/140824 | ||
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mapleleafs791
United States225 Posts
On March 23 2012 00:08 Borkbokbork wrote: What time do brood lords normally get out by- (i know there will be variance...) Most zergs will not attempt BL production unless they have 4 bases, correct? Shouldn't a Zerg be on 4 bases if we are on three? (yes I watched replays) I really can vary too much, if a zerg rushes straight to them of only a few roaches i think 15 minutes isnt unreasonable but if they do heavy roach agro it can be pushed to 18 and if they go heavy muta ling counterattacking it can be as late as 20-22. You really just need to be checking for infestation pit/hive timings and formulate the timing from there. | ||
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
Want to smash some Zerg face before he gets up in yours with that hellish Brood Lord Infestor ball and plants 40 spine crawlers at every expansion? You caught my eye with this line. YES YES YES! Tired of confronting that and forced to engage time and time again Maxed vs Maxed with perfect micro against fungals and brood lords. Tired of speed roaches denying my 2base allin, tired of speed roaches killing my thirds (this isn't a complete solution but it's close enough for my play level). 5 wins and counting using this. Most recent time, the Zerg took out the chat shotgun, loaded it with whine-mo (Its like ammo, but in chat), and spewed it out before GG. If the prospect looked hopeless to defeat the style, you know you're doing something right. Thanks, Alej. I'll save the fungal dodging, brood blinking, and spine wading for Korhal Compound and Metalopolis. Antiguua Shipyard Yeah, Antig-goo-a does turn really purple in PvZ. Goo everywhere! | ||
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charliexjustice
United States42 Posts
Would the early game build order be changed at all by a 16 nex? Also, on some maps like antiga and entombed, I like to get a 2nd cannon at the front just to be safe, but I noticed that with this build it delays my gases and messes things up. Should I not get that 2nd cannon, since this build is vs non gas openers by zerg? It just seems like one cannon can't quite cover the whole front, and I hate when those 4 zerglings are attacking the pylon on the very edge because the cannon can't reach them. Thanks, Charlie | ||
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How2getMaster
Germany124 Posts
Greetings. | ||
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Eladen
Slovakia54 Posts
I started trying this nice build just recently, and I am doing fine if the Zerg lets my third uncontested, or puts just a little pressure. However, I have a hard time dealing with dedicated attacks, like in this game I played with a friend. http://drop.sc/150317 Is it macro/micro/scouting/timings related? Could you help me with some pointers, what to do better to not die to this? thanks  | ||
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Dujek
United Kingdom276 Posts
Would you recommend this build to a Platinum player trying to improve his macro? If not can you think of an alternative? | ||
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How2getMaster
Germany124 Posts
But in other games I lost horribly. At the moment I am playing another build I saw TITAN do vs Stephano. It´s the 4 Gate +1GroundAttack Push with fast Third (~8min) With mass/nonstop Immortal production into double Robo Colossus. This build also has Blink ready at the time the push comes. ~Timings: FFE 4 Gates +1 start at 6.15min 2.-3. Gas ~7min Then you take your third ~8min (at this time you only have 3 sentrys and 1 Zealot) So scout properly and place Cannons in time! With constant Immortal production and smart ff placement you should be able to fend of the push!! Greetings. | ||
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-MoOsE-
United States236 Posts
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ZeromuS
Canada13410 Posts
On April 12 2012 09:33 -MoOsE- wrote: can this hold the stephano push? I think something needs to be clarified with regards to the many roach thing If your opponent isn't actually maxed at 12 minutes in the replay then roach spam isn't the issue, instead its your build not being done optimally. Kill as many queens as you can with the 5 pheonix, by reducing larva counts and disrupting the Zerg's injection timing you can reduce the number of roaches they can have really quickly which is often enough to provide you a chance to hold the third. Practice your forcefields and work on sim city. If you have decent sim city and you can force field well you have the opportunity to cut the roach army into sections you can handle. Keep in mind the third timing as well. I was having a hard time taking my third then when I tried to take it earlier, I ended up doing much better. There is a point in PvZ when doing this kind of build provided here where your minerals go way up and your gas is crazy low. If this happens, you didn't expand to your third early enough. If you have 1000 minerals and zero gas when your third is going down thats ok, if you can't take the third because of ground pressure and you have 2k min and 0 gas you did something really wrong. Having 1k minerals when taking the third is ok because you end up with a nexus (down to 600 minerals) a couple pylons and some cannons. Also something to think about for simcity: on Entombed, wall in at the ramp closes the nat after taking your third and wall at the third so the only entrance to your base is the ramp. If they want to attack the wall at the side of the third they will need to leave, walk the long way around and then try and break the wall. This takes a while giving you time to get an extra collossus out or build more energy and get more units which goes a really long way. | ||
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tuukster
Finland114 Posts
On April 12 2012 09:33 -MoOsE- wrote: can this hold the stephano push? It has the potential to hold it, but it always comes down to your micro when his push comes, regardless of what specific build you do. Shitty forcefields = you're dead. Fight in a wide open area = you're dead. A lot of players cry that mass roach is imba, but I'm quite sure that 9 times out of 10, they lost because they engaged the zerg army in a really bad position or they didn't have enough (or good) forcefields. Range 4 roaches will never beat your protoss army with range 6 stalkers/immortals and range 9 colossi, IF you block him from getting right in your face. | ||
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RemarK
United States452 Posts
Edit: Oh wow never realized you were Chrono. I think we've played once or twice :p | ||
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-VoidRay-
57 Posts
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