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On February 27 2012 06:37 Treyus wrote:
seems like a 3 stalker rush could be hard to deal with if performed correctly unless you end up with 2 stalkers before his 2nd and third come out. The scouting you do with a 3 stalker rush is specifically to deny the proxy pylon of a 4gate but seems like it would be good for denying the proxy gates as well. also if you don't outright crush him early you're probably going to lose those 2gates and core and pylon so it seems risky vs someone who manages to hold. BUT like i said if you get 2 stalkers out while the 3 stalker rush is still at 1 you could do some decent damage i suppose
In the GSL VOD linked in the OP, JYP did a 3 stalker rush opening and still managed to lose because Hero managed to pick off probes and micro well enough to get both of them on equal footing.
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I haven't been able to test this but wouldn't this be very strong in PvT as well ? A 1 zealot 1 stalker poke can already do damage so if you have 2 stalkers sooner than that, shouldn't you be able to kill all the terran early army ?
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yes it would be strong in PvT, but if the terran scouts it he can just put down a bunker.
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On February 26 2012 23:26 hooahah wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2012 23:13 LittleWM wrote:
So do these stalkers typically come before a cannon can be finished? probably not but if the guy invested in a forge+cannon that early then he's already lost
I don't really see why. Proxy things by their nature are a risky investment and 2 stalkers cost more than a forge and a cannon.
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United Kingdom20326 Posts
On February 28 2012 02:17 LittleWM wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2012 23:26 hooahah wrote:On February 26 2012 23:13 LittleWM wrote:
So do these stalkers typically come before a cannon can be finished? probably not but if the guy invested in a forge+cannon that early then he's already lost I don't really see why. Proxy things by their nature are a risky investment and 2 stalkers cost more than a forge and a cannon.
If i scout in pvp and see no buildings i am sure as hell going to freak the f*** out
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I don't see this build as an all in. Half of the idea of a proxy is that your opponent wil not scout it in time. 2 stalkers doing enough damage will put you at an insurmountable lead and I believe that if your opponent chronos WG research instead of his 2nd stalker or provides a late zealot, its an instant victory. Now I'm trying to se what would happen if both players pulled it off.
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I saw this build on NA ladder on Shattered Temple (I'm mid masters Toss). I ended up losing because i had mostly zealots in response to the proxy which I scouted with my 13 food scout. It's pretty difficult to hold if you haven't seen it before.
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So i tested it today and found out, that it works against terrans also especially good as it hardcounters alls Builds with early Marines and Factory Rushes.
But the Micro Intensity is really strong.
My takeaways so far:
Dont research Warpgate before atleast 3 Stalkers are out, if u have the Chance to kill him u dont even need it.
Kill Probes/workers! This is very important, as u need to make sure that u are still even.
If he makes Canon, throw down a robo and rush for 2 Immortal drop with Speed Prosem for Harrasement. Its very good i think. And the Canons come before the Stalker just, if he skips the Core or scoutet directly... So u will still have Time to make significant Damage.
It seems to me that, a Chargelot/Archon Counter Push would kill u hard, if he manage to throw u back with Canons, as u cant forcefield the ramp to hold him off.
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On February 28 2012 02:35 BankTank wrote:
So i tested it today and found out, that it works against terrans also especially good as it hardcounters alls Builds with early Marines and Factory Rushes.
But the Micro Intensity is really strong.
My takeaways so far:
Dont research Warpgate before atleast 3 Stalkers are out, if u have the Chance to kill him u dont even need it.
Kill Probes/workers! This is very important, as u need to make sure that u are still even.
If he makes Canon, throw down a robo and rush for 2 Immortal drop with Speed Prosem for Harrasement. Its very good i think. And the Canons come before the Stalker just, if he skips the Core or scoutet directly... So u will still have Time to make significant Damage.
It seems to me that, a Chargelot/Archon Counter Push would kill u hard, if he manage to throw u back with Canons, as u cant forcefield the ramp to hold him off.
what are you talking about? stalkers come out before cannons and stalkers also beat cannons..
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You dont have tested it? Have you? He will at least have one Zealot at this time...
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Hmm...well, you'll still have to mine the gas, right? Isn't it pretty much instantly scouted?
No buildings, gas being mined early on = not some weird 15 nexus, not proxy zealots, not forge/cannons.....stalkers, doh.
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United Kingdom20326 Posts
On February 28 2012 02:42 TylerThaCreator wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 02:35 BankTank wrote:
So i tested it today and found out, that it works against terrans also especially good as it hardcounters alls Builds with early Marines and Factory Rushes.
But the Micro Intensity is really strong.
My takeaways so far:
Dont research Warpgate before atleast 3 Stalkers are out, if u have the Chance to kill him u dont even need it.
Kill Probes/workers! This is very important, as u need to make sure that u are still even.
If he makes Canon, throw down a robo and rush for 2 Immortal drop with Speed Prosem for Harrasement. Its very good i think. And the Canons come before the Stalker just, if he skips the Core or scoutet directly... So u will still have Time to make significant Damage.
It seems to me that, a Chargelot/Archon Counter Push would kill u hard, if he manage to throw u back with Canons, as u cant forcefield the ramp to hold him off. what are you talking about? stalkers come out before cannons and stalkers also beat cannons..
Pretty sure stalkers are not cost effective against well placed cannons
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if he goes for defensive cannons it's almost always a free win. By the time 2-3 stalkers get up his ramp, there will maybe be 1-2 cannons warping in and almost always there will be buildings that you can shoot at that are not covered by the cannons.
if he went for a standard proxy 2 gate with zealots it can get a bit tricky though. you have a low probe count so microing vs a few zealots is tough while you wait for the stalkers to run across the map
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On February 27 2012 06:54 chuky500 wrote:
I haven't been able to test this but wouldn't this be very strong in PvT as well ? A 1 zealot 1 stalker poke can already do damage so if you have 2 stalkers sooner than that, shouldn't you be able to kill all the terran early army ?
it would be decent harass, and sure you could kill a couple marines and scvs, but against a competent terran, you will likely equalize or be slightly behind in econ, with two proxy gates on the map in a pvt going into midgame. not good.
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Well if he is bad and tries some Kind of Proxy Factory without walloff it will be a free win :D
But this would just be a blind counter with a big amount of Luck.
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This is just a quick all in proxy 3 stalker rush. 3 Stalker rush is a pretty common build, using chronos on your stalker instead of warp gate if you're not all inning with it.
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On February 26 2012 08:36 Payson wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2012 06:57 Arcanefrost wrote:
10 pylon
10 gate
Cb nexus
12 gas
14 core
14 gate
14 pylon
Cb stalkers from here on out Thanks! Are there specific reasons you go for the build? When is the build basically dead though when you play? I'd assume you need to deal significant damage before warp gate finishes for your opponent.
I just stole it from hero  it seems to be the perfect amount of econ to keep chronoboosting out constantly.
If he has only 1 pylon powering his gateway you can snipe it fast, otherwise you need to kill probes and stalkers. I usually ignore zealots and just go for the stalkers and then go for the probes. It's good vs anything as long as you don't get scouted too fast. Cb units out of 2/3 gates is the counter.
http://drop.sc/122240 replay vs gm toss
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Does anyone have a video of this being performed correctly that don't require a season pass?
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EPT
