EPThe had so many cannons everywhere. i knew if I tried to attach his front I would die to his Collossus void ray count. (deathball)
My question is what do you do against a turtling protoss ?
Replay example :http://drop.sc/107158
Zerg:What do you do against a Turtling Protoss?
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jojoleb
Lebanon180 Posts
he had so many cannons everywhere. i knew if I tried to attach his front I would die to his Collossus void ray count. (deathball) My question is what do you do against a turtling protoss ? Replay example :http://drop.sc/107158 | ||
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Farone
Netherlands1219 Posts
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Juice!
Belgium295 Posts
If he turtles, you can expand a lot aswell... So you can get the eco to get this | ||
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Candadar
2049 Posts
Nonetheless, expand everywhere. Get a shit ton of Corrupters. I mean, just a ridiculous amount and continue to get tech in basically everything. Get upgrades as well. Try to contain him on 3 bases, max. 2 would be ideal, but if he gets to 3, make sure to keep him there by massive denying, burrowed lings, etc. When he pushes out with his deathball, you should have the advantage with the ridiculous amount of money you should have banked. Use your huge corrupter ball to take out as many Colossi as possible, and then his Void Rays. You can refresh your army faster than his. If he starts massing gateway units, get what you need. Start getting Brood Lords even. If he sticks with Colli/Void Rays, I say get Brood Lords for the "mass cannons" and even more Corrupters to protect them. The thing to note is to save Larvae and save money once maxed and keep expanding. Get a lot of gas, and keep upgrading and teching. Your army may lose to his straight up, even like 50 Corrupters, but that's not the point. You can refresh faster than him and you can AFFORD to refresh faster. After you drop his army when he moves out, he may still have enough to keep trucking. Refresh with what you need and keep ramming into his asshole. He'll be forced to try and expand to continue to fund his gas heavy army, and you can keep denying him. The point of killing someone who is turtling is not to kill his base or break him. You need to starve him. | ||
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ButterMeUp
England76 Posts
On February 08 2012 23:20 Farone wrote: if he uses collo VR, then just bank a lot of minerals, make allot of corrupters (30-40), kill VRs+collosi, then build whatever units counter his remaining army Thats really really bad advice, 80 supply of corruptors is a terrible, terrible idea. To beat the turtle deathbal, well, there is no simple answer. There a sceveral ways of beating it, these can include: 1. Never let him get one. During the midgame, trade armys with him. Do multiprong attacks including drops or nydus to keep his army small. If you can trade armys, its looking good, as you can remax quicker than he can. 2. Drops and nydus play work really well for sniping tech or out of posistion units. 3. Midgame mutas can be devastating. You can pick of key tech, probes, pylons etc. But we warned, you are gonna want to get a huge muta ball with good upgrades. DO NOT engage the deathball with mutas, use them to base race and you will win majority of the time. 4. Broodlord infestor is the ultimate goal of ZvP when p turtles alot. This combo is basically the counter to the deathball but it has to be micro'd properly, also dont rush there, or you will die to midgame pushes. GL  | ||
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Candadar
2049 Posts
On February 08 2012 23:28 ButterMeUp wrote: Thats really really bad advice, 80 supply of corruptors is a terrible, terrible idea. To beat the turtle deathbal, well, there is no simple answer. There a sceveral ways of beating it, these can include: 1. Never let him get one. During the midgame, trade armys with him. Do multiprong attacks including drops or nydus to keep his army small. If you can trade armys, its looking good, as you can remax quicker than he can. 2. Drops and nydus play work really well for sniping tech or out of posistion units. 3. Midgame mutas can be devastating. You can pick of key tech, probes, pylons etc. But we warned, you are gonna want to get a huge muta ball with good upgrades. DO NOT engage the deathball with mutas, use them to base race and you will win majority of the time. 4. Broodlord infestor is the ultimate goal of ZvP when p turtles alot. This combo is basically the counter to the deathball but it has to be micro'd properly, also dont rush there, or you will die to midgame pushes. GL Against the normal deathball, yeah, that's great. But when we're talking about the VR/Colli only deathball, it isn't good enough. | ||
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Venomsflame
United States613 Posts
On February 08 2012 23:29 Candadar wrote: Against the normal deathball, yeah, that's great. But when we're talking about the VR/Colli only deathball, it isn't good enough. Uhm. What? Broodlord infestor will almost always be a better composition than any one that has 80 or more supply in corruptors. | ||
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BinxyBrown
United States230 Posts
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SelectStaR
United Kingdom129 Posts
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orionboss
United States45 Posts
http://www.gomtv.net/2012gsls1/vod/66838 it is game 1 | ||
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Candadar
2049 Posts
On February 08 2012 23:36 Venomsflame wrote: Uhm. What? Broodlord infestor will almost always be a better composition than any one that has 80 or more supply in corruptors. Since when does BL/Infestor cost efficiently counter mass VR/colli? | ||
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Berailfor
441 Posts
On February 09 2012 01:31 Candadar wrote: Since when does BL/Infestor cost efficiently counter mass VR/colli? Since never lol. Your correct, don't morph broods until after you have killed off all/most of the voids. The infestor buff was the time when void ray colossi became outdated. Because infestor corruptor just owns it too hard. And Zerg also have learned not to build hydras lol | ||
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FLiP491
United States124 Posts
On February 08 2012 23:28 ButterMeUp wrote: Thats really really bad advice, 80 supply of corruptors is a terrible, terrible idea. Actually this is not terrible advice. Ok 30-40 is way too many. But a good way to kill a vr/col based deathball is to overmake corruptors and then sac and remax. The idea is if he turtles you have a huge eco lead, and you need to make that matter when both hit 200 food. If your roach hydra or bl infestor army gets crushed it's gg, you can't remax in time to kill an army with a stockpile of cols I'm assuming this is in the lower leagues and this guy doesn't have gm level micro/control. If he does, then bl corrupter infestor can trade well enough, or drop blings, or lots of other things.. | ||
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Arisen
United States2382 Posts
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Kira__
Sweden2672 Posts
also the protoss can get a maximum of 3 bases, (some maps 2) if you go mutalisk and he tries to make a deathball of voidray colossi. Sure he could make 20 cannons in each base, but then he will have no army the problem is what to do if the protoss techs to storm and slowly continues to expand and playing passively... I have no solution to that myself  | ||
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kcdc
United States2311 Posts
(1) fast third -> roach -> muta -> mass expand -> broodlord infestor; and (2) fast third -> roach -> roach timing attack as P takes third. For #2, P will probably try to turtle behind chokes with forcefields, so you will want to get OL drops or tunneling claws. If P does get a void+colossus deathball, corruptors are a good response. If P gets a deathball with storm, archons, mothership, void rays and carriers, Z is basically screwed, but corruptors are still the best choice. You'll have to split micro and storm dodge the heck out of your corruptors to do much damage tho. Multipronged roach drops are good in late game as well. | ||
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Canuckelhead
Canada29 Posts
2. I like that you use your 'lings to try to knock down rocks. But you also need to use them to scout the map and look for pylons and probes. 3. You see that P has taken gas at his expo. This should tell you some sort of tech play is coming. 4. Good to scout that Stargate play, a little bit earlier would have helped a lot. 5. You have 22 'lings not doing anything. Knock down the rocks to your pocket expo and to his pocket third. He's going to want it eventually, open the path up for yourself to counter/deny it. You eventually do this but it's too late by then. If you're going to make units, do something with them. If they're sitting in your base, they'd be better off being drones. 6. P is taking a third. EXPAND!!!!! Your opponent is giving you the map. Use it. Expand everywhere. Your pocket expo, the 3 o'clock main and natural. Take them. Spread creep and bank larvae. Tech to hive. Your opponent is going to sit and macro on his 3-base to get a deathball. 7. I don't really like the Muta tech choice here, unless you're going to mass them. Your opponent already has two stargates. You don't know if he has Blink/Templar archives and then you lose a bunch of Mutas to do a little damage to his main. 6. You're still making Corruptors and Roaches. Commit to a unit composition. Either go mass Muta (30+) or a more traditional Roach/Corruptor/Infestor (by the way, you still have no Infestation pit at 15 minutes against a turtling P) 7. You haven't taken the gas at your third or fourth. This is over. 8. Your upgrades are slow as well. You ivnested in double evo, pump those upgrades! 9. Your Muta control needs a lot of work. Your army just doesn't look very strong, does it? The mix and match, grab bag approach vs. his deathball? 10 You have two hatcheries not in your Hatch hotkeys and your larvae injects need a lot of work. I'm not going to watch the rest because the game is essentially over. To beat a deathball Protoss, you need one of two things. 1) a giant ball of Mutas and a map that allows you to have a million expos to force a base race, with a Spine wall to back it up. OR 2) a Zerg deathball of Infestor/Broodlord. Protoss literally applies 0 pressure to you. He goes fast double Stargate, delaying his tech and hurting his econ. P is basically saying to you, I'm not scared of Broodlords and Infestors, here, take the map. Your response needs to be, "have you seen 20+ Broodlords before? Here, take a look..." Instead you waivered on what units you wanted, lost a tonne of stuff for free and never really maxed on your end tier units. Against that 3 base turtle, take the map, drone hard and tech hard. | ||
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Kasha_Not_Kesha
United States71 Posts
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Facultyadjutant
Sweden1876 Posts
On February 08 2012 23:36 Venomsflame wrote: Uhm. What? Broodlord infestor will almost always be a better composition than any one that has 80 or more supply in corruptors. Sadly not againt vr/colli Collussus rip infestors trying to get close and spread voidrays decimate everything. It is just incredibly frustrating. | ||
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HaXXspetten
Sweden15718 Posts
Edit: Also, as others pointed out, if he's going VR/Colo, well just make a ****load of corruptors with a little support and you should be fine... I hate going VR/Colo, it's so easy to hard-counter :/ | ||
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