Hi, this is LgNSpecialist from team Legion. I go by SPeCiaLiST, AllinKing, and xiLith in ladder, which all of them are in high GMs. I have been watching forgg's stream for a while, and I picked up a few builds from him which are really good. In this thread, I want to dissect his play so that you guys can also execute this fun TvZ build. The fair warning here is that this is a crisp build order where one misstep can mess up the whole b.o., so I advise you to try this only if you have good enough multitask skills. Also, before you read this guide, it might be a good idea to watch my youtube video or replays so that you get a general idea to work with.
10 Supply 12 Barrack 13 Gas 15 Orbital 15 Marine -> scout 16 Supply 16 2nd Marine 18 Factory 18 Gas 19 Reactor (after reactor put tech lab near starport) 19 3rd Supply 20 Put scvs to 2nd gas 22 Starport When hellions pop out: 5:24 Arrive at zerg base at around 6:00 4 Hellions arrive at 6:24
Swap starport with tech lab from barracks - 32 start cloak as priority 32 Supply 32 1st banshee (exactly 32/35 to 35/35) Rally banshee to zerg’s base 38 Supply
When banshee comes out: 6:50 - target queen as a priority Distract queens with hellions
7:24 - cloak is finished Get 2nd banshee Go CC then get tech lab from barrack Add factories to the tech labs (You must have 2 banshees ALIVE before this)
Get drop ship and harass with 4 hellions Research Blue Flame Get 2 gases in the expansion
There are 3 chances to outright kill or damage tremendously the zerg. You must focus on these 3 attack stages very carefully. The good thing about this build is that there are 3 chances to do the damage, so if one fails you can still make a comeback.
The first 4 hellions should pop out and arrive zerg's base at around 6:30 mark. What these units have to do is to harass the zerg as much as possible. The good thing about this build is that you don't need to kill or deny the creeps as you do with normal hellion openings, so don't be afraid to run in to 1 spine crawlers into the main/natural's mineral lines to roast some drones. The timing is such that the zerg won't have rock solid defense up front in the natural, or if they do, they would be committing too much at the early stage. This is such a effective harass because you will not only kill drones and damage their economy, but you will also confuse him to the state where he will not be as focused to follow properly. There are many times where hellions just go right inside the zerg's main and the zerg called out the GG.
Right as 4 hellions annoy the zerg and die with the mission accomplished, here comes the cloaked banshee. If the zergs do not counter properly, it will be an instant win, as zerg won't be able to detect cloak. If the hellions previously damaged drones, banshees can easily pick off those weak drones first. However, you must not overcommit. These banshees have to be alive the entire time. The reason for this is the map control -> these banshees can easily snipe 3rd before the mutas/zerg's anti-air to the 3rd. In addition, these banshees are there to pressure zergs to go to muta tech, which is really important.
1. Banshees denying the 3rd expansion is annoying 2. Zerg thinks you may be going for whatever build that won't have enough air defense 3. Alternatives are bad -> Infestors - terrible choice vs mech -> ling/banes - terrible vs mech (esp with blue flame) -> pure roaches - scariest counter, you need to do a lot of annoying work with banshees so that the zerg comes to you for possible finishing blow, where you can just have to defend then to win.
When you harass with banshees and notice that zerg is droning up and relying too much on small static defense with little army, you can opt to harass with 6-8 hellions that you will have from the reactor hellions while you were harassing with banshees. If you notice that defense is too tight to do much damage, just save those hellions for Attack Phase 3.
Whenever 4 thors are out, it's the time to push. It seems like the optimal number because of following reasons.
1. If you wait for 6+, you are giving zerg too much time to mass roaches. 2. If you go with only 2, they are too few a number to do a finishing blow to the zerg.
Whenever you push out with 4 thors, rally hellions, repairing scvs, and 2 banshees to the most forefront thor, as thors move slowest. Also make sure to rally the factories to the one of the traveling thors as well, because reinforcement of 2 thors at a time is essential for a successful push.
Just a bunch of roaches: That's why every attack phase counts. Little by little, as you kill more drones and slow his tech, the 4 thor timing push will be more successful. If attack phase 1 and 2 get completely shut down, zerg might be easily crush attack 3 phase.
What you won't lose to: ling/banes/mutas/infestors.
Defend with everything at the ramp. You will have 1 banshee out by then. If they roach rush, they probably will not be as ready for cloakshees -> GG!
Case 2 Mutas in my base but thors are already traveling in the middle of the map toward enemy's base + Show Spoiler +
1st, don't panic. 2nd, DON'T pull back the army. 3rd. pull scvs AWAY from the mutas and defend with 2 thors that are coming out of factories. Meanwhile, 4 thors push will run rampant.
Case 3 Too many roaches just destroyed my 4 thor push. + Show Spoiler +
Option 1 GG out Option 2 Defend at natural if you can successfully do so, then get 3rd asap into 3/3 200/200 mech. Watch out for brood lord timing and get vikings as appropriate.
I will post some reps after server check is done. Also, I execute this build quite a lot on my stream so you might wanna check it out sometime.
On January 26 2012 00:10 aebriol wrote: Roach hydra is actually quite good against this as a zerg. Like, 8-10 hydras, rest roaches.
Without lots of hellions, tanks, plenty of marines, hydras do well
It's sadly ... about the only build in existence where hydras make some kind of sense in ZvT.
(roach bane queen also, but then you have to see it coming sooner so you can get out 6 or 8 queens).
Disagree, thors outrange hydras and just 2shot them and they're effectively an overpriced weaker roach. I laugh every time a zerg makes hydras vs me, seriously they are SO awful vs terran.
ForGG harassment strategies work because he understands how to abuse Terrain and get the enemy to push or tech in ways he's already prepared for, Copy the build order isn't gonna get you any easy wins.
On January 26 2012 03:13 aaycumi wrote: ForGG harassment strategies work because he understands how to abuse Terrain and get the enemy to push or tech in ways he's already prepared for, Copy the build order isn't gonna get you any easy wins.
The opening build order essentially forces the Zerg down certain tech paths based on your own unit composition and timings. If you read the post, the OP actually talked about possible transitions the Zerg could do, maps to do it on, compositions to use.
Great guide, I've been really interested in his style for a long time, just haven't had the time to watch his stream lately
On January 26 2012 01:05 Pokebunny wrote: Disagree, thors outrange hydras and just 2shot them and they're effectively an overpriced weaker roach. I laugh every time a zerg makes hydras vs me, seriously they are SO awful vs terran.
This. Hydras are effectively an overpriced weaker roach in all 3 MU's. The only time Z should make hydras is for funky all-ins or if they have a strong need for AA and queens/corruptors won't cut it. I can't say how many times I would have died to queens walking their slow asses off creep to attack me, but Z instead opts for crappy hydras, so I LOL all over his army.
ive had i few people do this to me a few times, could you post replays of you doing this? i usually beat it easily by just spamming lings and a few banelings to bust his wall directly after holding the banshee harass and then kill scvs like crazy and leave them there while i expand and tech.
maybe the people im playing against are doing it wrong? i cant watch youtube shit so please please could you post replays
On January 26 2012 03:44 spbelky wrote: What's your typical Armory timing look like? and when do you halt/restart marine production?
After I fully harass with 2 banshees, I have many monies in my bank. That's when I throw down the 2 factories, and armory. I don't have the kind "I have to put this at X time" for 2 factories and armory and so forth.
On January 26 2012 03:44 spbelky wrote: What's your typical Armory timing look like? and when do you halt/restart marine production?
After I fully harass with 2 banshees, I have many monies in my bank. That's when I throw down the 2 factories, and armory. I don't have the kind "I have to put this at X time" for 2 factories and armory and so forth.
thats what i thought, directly after your banshee harass you are extremely vulnerable to counter attack, am I right?
On January 26 2012 03:44 spbelky wrote: What's your typical Armory timing look like? and when do you halt/restart marine production?
After I fully harass with 2 banshees, I have many monies in my bank. That's when I throw down the 2 factories, and armory. I don't have the kind "I have to put this at X time" for 2 factories and armory and so forth.
thats what i thought, directly after your banshee harass you are extremely vulnerable to counter attack, am I right?
Not really. Counter attack won't do a thing because I still have 2 banshees in my arsenal, as well as 2 thors/2 hellion productions.
On January 26 2012 05:42 spbelky wrote: OK so after the banshee harass, your main production is going to be 2 tech factories and a reactor factory off 2base... sounds good.
More newbie questions: When do you get upgrades, and do you get armor or weapon? or 2 armory and get both? O_o
whenever you have money left while running all 3 factories... and always get weapon upgrade for every terran upgrades
On January 26 2012 05:42 spbelky wrote: OK so after the banshee harass, your main production is going to be 2 tech factories and a reactor factory off 2base... sounds good.
More newbie questions: When do you get upgrades, and do you get armor or weapon? or 2 armory and get both? O_o
whenever you have money left while running all 3 factories... and always get weapon upgrade for every terran upgrades
"always" is pretty strong, a lot of Thor rushes prefer +1armor against zerg because it makes zerglings less effective especially in combination with scv repair. Tanks definitely benefit from the weapons which is clearly the right upgrade in almost every instance for other mech units too but there are times where armor can work as well.
On January 26 2012 05:42 spbelky wrote: OK so after the banshee harass, your main production is going to be 2 tech factories and a reactor factory off 2base... sounds good.
More newbie questions: When do you get upgrades, and do you get armor or weapon? or 2 armory and get both? O_o
whenever you have money left while running all 3 factories... and always get weapon upgrade for every terran upgrades
"always" is pretty strong, a lot of Thor rushes prefer +1armor against zerg because it makes zerglings less effective especially in combination with scv repair. Tanks definitely benefit from the weapons which is clearly the right upgrade in almost every instance for other mech units too but there are times where armor can work as well.
ah but u have hellions so +1 attk hellions will do a better job of handling lings i think all pros always get attack first regardless of whatever upgrade it is
How do you deal with Broodlord/Corruptor/Infestor with mass queens for transfusion in case the game goes late?
I find it nearly impossible to fight effectively and even if you can trade evenly, zerg will be back to 200/200 in a minute with random unit which you can't possibly have answer to..
On January 26 2012 06:51 Everlong wrote: How do you deal with Broodlord/Corruptor/Infestor with mass queens for transfusion in case the game goes late?
I find it nearly impossible to fight effectively and even if you can trade evenly, zerg will be back to 200/200 in a minute with random unit which you can't possibly have answer to..
On January 26 2012 06:51 Everlong wrote: How do you deal with Broodlord/Corruptor/Infestor with mass queens for transfusion in case the game goes late?
I find it nearly impossible to fight effectively and even if you can trade evenly, zerg will be back to 200/200 in a minute with random unit which you can't possibly have answer to..
On January 26 2012 03:52 eu.exodus wrote: ive had i few people do this to me a few times, could you post replays of you doing this? i usually beat it easily by just spamming lings and a few banelings to bust his wall directly after holding the banshee harass and then kill scvs like crazy and leave them there while i expand and tech.
maybe the people im playing against are doing it wrong? i cant watch youtube shit so please please could you post replays
edit ; i called scvs drones -_- lol
i also do this against any >2 hellion opening with 90% win rate. The hellion banshee opening leaves the terran with thin production caps, so mass spam sling bling always takes him down (on 25..30 drones). Even if the first wave does not completely destroy him, commiting to sling bling always was worth the risk ..
Please can you delete this guide because soon every terran will do it, so zerg will find out a counter to it and my freewin against zergs will be over.
On January 26 2012 10:20 TanTzoR wrote: Please can you delete this guide because soon every terran will do it, so zerg will find out a counter to it and my freewin against zergs will be over.
Thanks.
hehe, learn to play some other styles also, there is no hard counter so it's all gud
Its a great guide but the OPs statement that everyone goes +weaps instead of armor is not only wrong but foolish. Critical damage for thors and hellions will not change with +1weapons in this type of push, +1armor will definitely be preferable in this strategy.
On January 26 2012 11:04 statikg wrote: Its a great guide but the OPs statement that everyone goes +weaps instead of armor is not only wrong but foolish. Critical damage for thors and hellions will not change with +1weapons in this type of push, +1armor will definitely be preferable in this strategy.
Thanks for criticism but why you calling me foolish? It's def a personal preference and weap upgrades are good in long term (faster 3 att up). And besides, upgrades that early is not a deal breaker anyhow.
On January 26 2012 11:04 statikg wrote: Its a great guide but the OPs statement that everyone goes +weaps instead of armor is not only wrong but foolish. Critical damage for thors and hellions will not change with +1weapons in this type of push, +1armor will definitely be preferable in this strategy.
Thanks for criticism but why you calling me foolish? It's def a personal preference and weap upgrades are good in long term (faster 3 att up). And besides, upgrades that early is not a deal breaker anyhow.
I am not calling you foolish, just this particular statement. Since this build is basically an all-in (sure you COULD do damage that would make it not all in) then you probably only get an opportunity to do 1upgrade and in that case +1 armor is definitely better. If u claim that you transition into a macro game from this build, then you must have ridiculous macro skillz. I have seen forgg do this build on his stream and he typically leaves immediately if the thor push dies.
its good for them deal with other kinds of of built
and if you have no korean micro mech is the cost efftive way to deal with them you just become like a protoss who built a death ball and your force the zerg to spend more and gas and every zerg is gas hungry
and if they built mass mutas they die even with mass roach is hard to stop it without a saturated fast 3rd
On January 26 2012 11:26 ff7legend wrote: How would you deal with a early bane bust... I know you will have banshees to clean it up, but won't the damage already be done?
you have enough hellions to deal with that
and vs roach you have banshees and if you scout no expo then you built a bunker that should be enough
Just tried it out in 3 games and won every vs high master and GM players even though I messed up a the build order a few times. I added a medivac as reinforcement to the push to heal scvs and any marines alive, but primarily you can use it to pick up thors that are getting targeted by roaches and drop them behind the frontline to get repaired.
Also the genius of lifting your barracks to hide all the tech, really everyone should do this in TvZ especially since there is a small window of time after marine 2 is built until you can afford the reactor. To help hide everything even better I keep just 1 marine behind the supply depots at the ramp and the second one on patrol in the back of the base to stop overlord scouting. With the 4 thor push I believe its most important to snipe queens first, once they are dead you can leave the banshees on hold position which really helps out against the roaches.
On January 27 2012 01:43 saaaa wrote: does a reactor hellion expand delay this build?
i think you have the same banshee+cloak timings with a hellion expand.
The expansion will be delayed by quite a bit because you need to build the 2nd reactor once you put the factory down. Going straight into expo and then banshees will also probably outright die to fast roaches.
However it might still be good!
I think you should try it out and note the timings of of when you have 2 cloaked banshees and the 4 -thor push with blue flame hellions and compare it to the original build.
I saw this build quite a few times on Specialist's stream last night. It catches most zerg players off guard, interestingly the immobility of the 4 thor push results in a LOT of base trade scenarios...
If your opponent is going pure roach, no spire do you suggest continuing banshee production for the thor all in and cutting some hellion?
Also i find a medivac is invaluable during the 4 thor push since it allows for thor micro and scv micro in case they have banes.
It's funny because i've also been stealing this build from forgg. Whenever you push out with your thors, it just feels so weak, but somehow you get the win. Then upon watching the replay you realize hey had like 20 drones the whole game or just got up to 40 but no units.
Hey i kinda ran into a bit of trouble while using this build. I use this build almost every tvz i play now and crush very zerg that decides to go muta. I so far have lost all my games when the zerg goes infestors am i suppose to play the style out the same way vs infestors?
On January 27 2012 14:24 Protossrush wrote: Hey i kinda ran into a bit of trouble while using this build. I use this build almost every tvz i play now and crush very zerg that decides to go muta. I so far have lost all my games when the zerg goes infestors am i suppose to play the style out the same way vs infestors?
This also works well vs Stephano style. The few games I've played using this build against infestor-upgraded ling is by mixing in more banshees to snipe infestors,and getting siege tanks. If i'm not mistaken, pure mech play is pretty good against Stephano style.
On January 27 2012 01:43 saaaa wrote: does a reactor hellion expand delay this build?
i think you have the same banshee+cloak timings with a hellion expand.
The expansion will be delayed by quite a bit because you need to build the 2nd reactor once you put the factory down. Going straight into expo and then banshees will also probably outright die to fast roaches.
However it might still be good!
I think you should try it out and note the timings of of when you have 2 cloaked banshees and the 4 -thor push with blue flame hellions and compare it to the original build.
i checked it..
i'm wrong you can not afford to build a CC between this.. i tried every single option..
it works decent if you go for 1rax FE and then Reactor Hellion and you get the same timings of cloak (5-10s later maybe) and banshee but no way with a "normal" reactor hellion expand.
On January 26 2012 05:42 spbelky wrote: OK so after the banshee harass, your main production is going to be 2 tech factories and a reactor factory off 2base... sounds good.
More newbie questions: When do you get upgrades, and do you get armor or weapon? or 2 armory and get both? O_o
whenever you have money left while running all 3 factories... and always get weapon upgrade for every terran upgrades
"always" is pretty strong, a lot of Thor rushes prefer +1armor against zerg because it makes zerglings less effective especially in combination with scv repair. Tanks definitely benefit from the weapons which is clearly the right upgrade in almost every instance for other mech units too but there are times where armor can work as well.
In unit Testing, Thors benefit more from +1 armor vs Zerglings/Roach more.. but thats not including hellions.
+1 attack does not help kill roaches faster with thors, But Hellions benefit from the +1 attack vs roach. +1 Armor will not help hellion vs roach because going from 16 to 15 doesn't change the # of hits to kill, its 6 hits with or without the armor upgrade..
Thor cant outrun roach, and 5 roaches beat a +0 armor thor. Hellions will end up tanking for thors and get to maximize their splash with the +1 attack.
So it is probably wise to get +1 attack first vs this type of composition.
If there primarliy zerglings, then +1 Armor is the better choice, since +1 attack does nothing for thor/ hellion with blue flame vs zerglings.
how do you beat this as zerg? There's no way you can scout what he's doing. This build is extremely strong and the timing is super powerful. I lost to diamond terran today using this and that normally don't happen.
I feel one of the stronger point of this build is banshee forces zerg to bundle up into a sim-city, along with hellions. As a result when the thor comes if you're caught off-guard there's no way you can flank it, and it's insta gg.
On January 29 2012 17:38 evanthebouncy! wrote: how do you beat this as zerg? There's no way you can scout what he's doing. This build is extremely strong and the timing is super powerful. I lost to diamond terran today using this and that normally don't happen.
I feel one of the stronger point of this build is banshee forces zerg to bundle up into a sim-city, along with hellions. As a result when the thor comes if you're caught off-guard there's no way you can flank it, and it's insta gg.
As someone who plays a very similiar style regularly I can give my opinion on this. There is a set of circumstances that occur very rarely, but when they do I almost always lose.
1.) MOST IMPORTANT - Minimize the hellion damage. I know it sounds simple, but I'm amazed by how many times a Zerg will scout my front, see a reactored factory on the wall, and have next to no response in their base. Put a spine crawler in each mineral line, use some simcity with evo chambers and your pool, and block the ramp with queens.
2.) You defended the hellion strike with managable losses (You'll rarely ever be able to stop them from killing any drones, don't worry about that.). Immediately send zerglings to the front of the Terran's base. (4-8 lings). You should notice some red flags: no tank fire, only mass marines defending, maybe a handful of other hellions. Nothing to explain where the rest of the gas is going. With nothing to explain where the gas is going you should immediately sac an overlord and see what's going on. You'll either see the techlab startport or a lack of other production facilities and know banshees are coming.
Two spores at each base (1 in mineral line, 1 on other side by queen) shuts down banshees with ease.
3.) Now that you've minimized the damage from the hellions, brushed away the banshee followup, you can focus on the big push you know is coming. Immediately take a 3rd and pump roaches. These builds don't usually allow for many tanks, if any, and thors fall fairly easily to large roach numbers.
In my experience, when the above happens, there's not much left for me to do.
It's so fun to watch forgg do this. I've always wanted to give this a shot, but been too lazy to actually figure the build out for myself. I've seen him do a couple variations on his stream before: in to bio instead of 4 thor push, mass hellion folowup, 4-6 banshee followup, etc. This looks quite in depth though, thanks.
On January 29 2012 17:38 evanthebouncy! wrote: how do you beat this as zerg? There's no way you can scout what he's doing. This build is extremely strong and the timing is super powerful. I lost to diamond terran today using this and that normally don't happen.
I feel one of the stronger point of this build is banshee forces zerg to bundle up into a sim-city, along with hellions. As a result when the thor comes if you're caught off-guard there's no way you can flank it, and it's insta gg.
As someone who plays a very similiar style regularly I can give my opinion on this. There is a set of circumstances that occur very rarely, but when they do I almost always lose.
1.) MOST IMPORTANT - Minimize the hellion damage. I know it sounds simple, but I'm amazed by how many times a Zerg will scout my front, see a reactored factory on the wall, and have next to no response in their base. Put a spine crawler in each mineral line, use some simcity with evo chambers and your pool, and block the ramp with queens.
2.) You defended the hellion strike with managable losses (You'll rarely ever be able to stop them from killing any drones, don't worry about that.). Immediately send zerglings to the front of the Terran's base. (4-8 lings). You should notice some red flags: no tank fire, only mass marines defending, maybe a handful of other hellions. Nothing to explain where the rest of the gas is going. With nothing to explain where the gas is going you should immediately sac an overlord and see what's going on. You'll either see the techlab startport or a lack of other production facilities and know banshees are coming.
Two spores at each base (1 in mineral line, 1 on other side by queen) shuts down banshees with ease.
3.) Now that you've minimized the damage from the hellions, brushed away the banshee followup, you can focus on the big push you know is coming. Immediately take a 3rd and pump roaches. These builds don't usually allow for many tanks, if any, and thors fall fairly easily to large roach numbers.
In my experience, when the above happens, there's not much left for me to do.
Thank you, rarely i see such detailed answer. Even if its not me asking.
reminds me of TLO's build, only that he got less hellions and double banshee of starport without cloak and a raven. But from there it was pretty much the same push I think, with ~4Thors. But I also think he played it less allinish, so maybe not really TLO's build
On January 29 2012 17:38 evanthebouncy! wrote: how do you beat this as zerg? There's no way you can scout what he's doing. This build is extremely strong and the timing is super powerful. I lost to diamond terran today using this and that normally don't happen.
I feel one of the stronger point of this build is banshee forces zerg to bundle up into a sim-city, along with hellions. As a result when the thor comes if you're caught off-guard there's no way you can flank it, and it's insta gg.
As someone who plays a very similiar style regularly I can give my opinion on this. There is a set of circumstances that occur very rarely, but when they do I almost always lose.
1.) MOST IMPORTANT - Minimize the hellion damage. I know it sounds simple, but I'm amazed by how many times a Zerg will scout my front, see a reactored factory on the wall, and have next to no response in their base. Put a spine crawler in each mineral line, use some simcity with evo chambers and your pool, and block the ramp with queens.
2.) You defended the hellion strike with managable losses (You'll rarely ever be able to stop them from killing any drones, don't worry about that.). Immediately send zerglings to the front of the Terran's base. (4-8 lings). You should notice some red flags: no tank fire, only mass marines defending, maybe a handful of other hellions. Nothing to explain where the rest of the gas is going. With nothing to explain where the gas is going you should immediately sac an overlord and see what's going on. You'll either see the techlab startport or a lack of other production facilities and know banshees are coming.
Two spores at each base (1 in mineral line, 1 on other side by queen) shuts down banshees with ease.
3.) Now that you've minimized the damage from the hellions, brushed away the banshee followup, you can focus on the big push you know is coming. Immediately take a 3rd and pump roaches. These builds don't usually allow for many tanks, if any, and thors fall fairly easily to large roach numbers.
In my experience, when the above happens, there's not much left for me to do.
I like this build. It's often that the hellion harass is so annoying that they forget detection, and you autowin. I've noticed that sometimes he waits until two banshees to harass. What are your thoughts on this?
I usually wait for 2 banshee unless my hellions don't do much damage.
As soon as one banshee moves in you can bet a pair of queens are being made, one from each base, or they go for spores right away.
If your hellions roast more than 6-8 drones wait until you have two banshee and spring it on them to surprise them. Cloak will be done and you can easily double team the queens, then focus fire any spores before they can pop.
Thanks for the guide dude. I watch ForGGs stream all the time and wanted to try some of the strategys he does. I think he says that he specifically does certain strats on ladder to work on his timings and micro.
I also saw you play probably the two funniest games against QXC where he rushed you two games in a row and BMed about being the new Allinking
Well thank you very very much for this build. I have been doing a bio build intended to teach lower leagues to macro properly, while I still need to learn and improve my Macro I found that Bio vs Zerg is well a bad choice all around. So I started looking for a tankless build and found this one!
My TvZ which was at about 35% win rate, improved tremendously. In the last 10 TvZ I have won 8 of them. This is definitly a more Micro intensive build then I am use to and it also teaches map awareness (Got to prevent that third base). I am very very much thankful for the post and hope to see other posts like this. BTW, if anyone knows a good tankless build for TvT that would be appreciated, right now I am at 52% win rate in TvT and I find that I always loose to the turtles since Bio isn,t all that good and I fear that this build would not work to well vs, marine, thank and viking. (I know there is always the iEchoic built but since the BFH nerf marines just kill the hellions.)
Looking forward to more amazing posts.
Edit : High Silver / Low Gold Terran is my ranking on BNet incase anyone was curious.
On February 08 2012 02:47 DoctorFunk wrote: I like this build. It's often that the hellion harass is so annoying that they forget detection, and you autowin. I've noticed that sometimes he waits until two banshees to harass. What are your thoughts on this?
The two banshees would add more surprise damage if not scouted once you enter the Zerg base, but it also runs the risk of giving zerg more time to blindly put down spores if he has a hunch, since he has not scouted an expo.
a questiont hough about this buid. What happens if zerg response is...well I have my main and natural defended with expos, terran has invested heavily into harassment (hellion/cloak shees), time to do a 2 baseroach/zergling/bling all in? At that point, youre looking at the a defence of maybe 6 hellions and a thor or two at max...seems troublesome
To answer your question.... 2 thors and banshees defend well vs bling sling roach. You have to keep your banshees alive the op mentioned this. Just bring them back and repair.
If zerg tries to all in your already ahead in economy and you can afford to take some damage and still be ahead.
As a zerg player, I am wondering about a possible roach hydra overseer drop to counter this.... But I never can tell for sure if the terrans are following up with thors until it's too late it seems. If they go tanks instead I would have to gg on the spot right?
EPT
