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[G] SPeCiaLiST's Guide to ForGG's Multiharass TvZ

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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Specialist
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
United States803 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-25 22:06:20
January 25 2012 11:36 GMT
#1
Hi, this is LgNSpecialist from team Legion. I go by SPeCiaLiST, AllinKing, and xiLith in ladder, which all of them are in high GMs.
I have been watching forgg's stream for a while, and I picked up a few builds from him which are really good. In this thread, I want to dissect his play so that you guys can also execute this fun TvZ build. The fair warning here is that this is a crisp build order where one misstep can mess up the whole b.o., so I advise you to try this only if you have good enough multitask skills. Also, before you read this guide, it might be a good idea to watch my youtube video or replays so that you get a general idea to work with.

Build order

+ Show Spoiler +
10 Supply
12 Barrack
13 Gas
15 Orbital
15 Marine -> scout
16 Supply
16 2nd Marine
18 Factory
18 Gas
19 Reactor (after reactor put tech lab near starport)
19 3rd Supply
20 Put scvs to 2nd gas
22 Starport
When hellions pop out: 5:24
Arrive at zerg base at around 6:00
4 Hellions arrive at 6:24

Swap starport with tech lab from barracks -
32 start cloak as priority
32 Supply
32 1st banshee (exactly 32/35 to 35/35)
Rally banshee to zerg’s base
38 Supply

When banshee comes out: 6:50 - target queen as a priority
Distract queens with hellions

7:24 - cloak is finished
Get 2nd banshee
Go CC then get tech lab from barrack
Add factories to the tech labs (You must have 2 banshees ALIVE before this)

Get drop ship and harass with 4 hellions
Research Blue Flame
Get 2 gases in the expansion


There are 3 chances to outright kill or damage tremendously the zerg. You must focus on these 3 attack stages very carefully. The good thing about this build is that there are 3 chances to do the damage, so if one fails you can still make a comeback.

Attack Phase 1: 4 hellions

+ Show Spoiler +
The first 4 hellions should pop out and arrive zerg's base at around 6:30 mark. What these units have to do is to harass the zerg as much as possible. The good thing about this build is that you don't need to kill or deny the creeps as you do with normal hellion openings, so don't be afraid to run in to 1 spine crawlers into the main/natural's mineral lines to roast some drones. The timing is such that the zerg won't have rock solid defense up front in the natural, or if they do, they would be committing too much at the early stage. This is such a effective harass because you will not only kill drones and damage their economy, but you will also confuse him to the state where he will not be as focused to follow properly. There are many times where hellions just go right inside the zerg's main and the zerg called out the GG.


Attack Phase 2: 2 Cloaked Banshees

+ Show Spoiler +
Right as 4 hellions annoy the zerg and die with the mission accomplished, here comes the cloaked banshee. If the zergs do not counter properly, it will be an instant win, as zerg won't be able to detect cloak. If the hellions previously damaged drones, banshees can easily pick off those weak drones first. However, you must not overcommit. These banshees have to be alive the entire time. The reason for this is the map control -> these banshees can easily snipe 3rd before the mutas/zerg's anti-air to the 3rd. In addition, these banshees are there to pressure zergs to go to muta tech, which is really important.


Why muta?

+ Show Spoiler +
1. Banshees denying the 3rd expansion is annoying
2. Zerg thinks you may be going for whatever build that won't have enough air defense
3. Alternatives are bad
-> Infestors - terrible choice vs mech
-> ling/banes - terrible vs mech (esp with blue flame)
-> pure roaches - scariest counter, you need to do a lot of annoying work with banshees so that the zerg comes to you for possible finishing blow, where you can just have to defend then to win.


Optional Attack Phase 2.5: 6-8 hellions

+ Show Spoiler +
When you harass with banshees and notice that zerg is droning up and relying too much on small static defense with little army, you can opt to harass with 6-8 hellions that you will have from the reactor hellions while you were harassing with banshees. If you notice that defense is too tight to do much damage, just save those hellions for Attack Phase 3.


Attack Phase 3: 4 thors attack timing
+ Show Spoiler +

Whenever 4 thors are out, it's the time to push. It seems like the optimal number because of following reasons.

1. If you wait for 6+, you are giving zerg too much time to mass roaches.
2. If you go with only 2, they are too few a number to do a finishing blow to the zerg.

Whenever you push out with 4 thors, rally hellions, repairing scvs, and 2 banshees to the most forefront thor, as thors move slowest. Also make sure to rally the factories to the one of the traveling thors as well, because reinforcement of 2 thors at a time is essential for a successful push.


What you will lose to if you were to lose
+ Show Spoiler +

Just a bunch of roaches: That's why every attack phase counts. Little by little, as you kill more drones and slow his tech, the 4 thor timing push will be more successful. If attack phase 1 and 2 get completely shut down, zerg might be easily crush attack 3 phase.

What you won't lose to: ling/banes/mutas/infestors.


Maps that best work:


+ Show Spoiler +
entombed valley, shattered temple, metalopolis, antiga shipyard


OPTIONAL stuff you can do

Preliminary bunker rush
+ Show Spoiler +

Bunker with 1 scv and 1 marine in the natural's mineral patch: overreaction by zerg will make you further ahead


A medivac (4 hellion) drop after 2 banshees
+ Show Spoiler +
If you think the zerg is relying too heavily on front door static defense, you can hellion drop for further drone harass.


Some troubling situations/How to overcome

Case 1 If they roach rush you early
+ Show Spoiler +
Defend with everything at the ramp. You will have 1 banshee out by then. If they roach rush, they probably will not be as ready for cloakshees -> GG!


Case 2 Mutas in my base but thors are already traveling in the middle of the map toward enemy's base
+ Show Spoiler +
1st, don't panic. 2nd, DON'T pull back the army. 3rd. pull scvs AWAY from the mutas and defend with 2 thors that are coming out of factories. Meanwhile, 4 thors push will run rampant.


Case 3 Too many roaches just destroyed my 4 thor push.
+ Show Spoiler +
Option 1 GG out
Option 2 Defend at natural if you can successfully do so, then get 3rd asap into 3/3 200/200 mech. Watch out for brood lord timing and get vikings as appropriate.


I will post some reps after server check is done. Also, I execute this build quite a lot on my stream so you might wanna check it out sometime.


Some Sample Executions by me

+ Show Spoiler +




REPLAYS


http://drop.sc/97998
http://drop.sc/97999
http://drop.sc/97996
http://drop.sc/97997


Finally, check out the TvP build that I previously posted if you want some refreshing tvp style http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=290571 and I would like to thank iSTop for helping me fine tune this build.
StiX
Profile Joined September 2010
Netherlands220 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-25 11:41:19
January 25 2012 11:40 GMT
#2
Yeah I've noticed this build as well, although not in such detail as you described.. Thanks!
"Think for yourself, question authority" Timothy Leary
saaaa
Profile Joined November 2010
Germany419 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-25 12:36:31
January 25 2012 12:01 GMT
#3

i searched for this in details but never could find this.

thanks!

do you have replays of forgg playing this style?
deanyo
Profile Joined December 2010
United Kingdom206 Posts
January 25 2012 14:24 GMT
#4
thank you, such a fun build
twitch.tv/deanyo
-Aura-
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States209 Posts
January 25 2012 14:33 GMT
#5
Yeah, this build looks like it's great to use in a BoX, thanks a lot.

Also, so happy that LgN got another Terran. Fighting!
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Liquid get more Terrans please...
aebriol
Profile Joined April 2010
Norway2066 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-25 15:11:09
January 25 2012 15:10 GMT
#6
Roach hydra is actually quite good against this as a zerg. Like, 8-10 hydras, rest roaches.

Without lots of hellions, tanks, plenty of marines, hydras do well

It's sadly ... about the only build in existence where hydras make some kind of sense in ZvT.

(roach bane queen also, but then you have to see it coming sooner so you can get out 6 or 8 queens).
RoarMan
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
Canada745 Posts
January 25 2012 15:38 GMT
#7
Nice write up and really appreciate the youtube videos! They're very helpful.
All the pros got dat Ichie.
BONE
Profile Joined August 2010
United States176 Posts
January 25 2012 15:40 GMT
#8
Thanks for taking the time to make this!!!
Pokebunny
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States10654 Posts
January 25 2012 16:05 GMT
#9
On January 26 2012 00:10 aebriol wrote:
Roach hydra is actually quite good against this as a zerg. Like, 8-10 hydras, rest roaches.

Without lots of hellions, tanks, plenty of marines, hydras do well

It's sadly ... about the only build in existence where hydras make some kind of sense in ZvT.

(roach bane queen also, but then you have to see it coming sooner so you can get out 6 or 8 queens).

Disagree, thors outrange hydras and just 2shot them and they're effectively an overpriced weaker roach. I laugh every time a zerg makes hydras vs me, seriously they are SO awful vs terran.
Semipro Terran player | Pokebunny#1710 | twitter.com/Pokebunny | twitch.tv/Pokebunny | facebook.com/PokebunnySC
aaycumi
Profile Joined March 2011
England265 Posts
January 25 2012 18:13 GMT
#10
ForGG harassment strategies work because he understands how to abuse Terrain and get the enemy to push or tech in ways he's already prepared for, Copy the build order isn't gonna get you any easy wins.
DawN883
Profile Joined November 2011
Sweden558 Posts
January 25 2012 18:14 GMT
#11
Thank you for another great (G) good work!
If the dead are not raised, Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die
Whatson
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
United States5356 Posts
January 25 2012 18:20 GMT
#12
On January 26 2012 03:13 aaycumi wrote:
ForGG harassment strategies work because he understands how to abuse Terrain and get the enemy to push or tech in ways he's already prepared for, Copy the build order isn't gonna get you any easy wins.

The opening build order essentially forces the Zerg down certain tech paths based on your own unit composition and timings. If you read the post, the OP actually talked about possible transitions the Zerg could do, maps to do it on, compositions to use.

Great guide, I've been really interested in his style for a long time, just haven't had the time to watch his stream lately
¯\_(シ)_/¯
kcdc
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2311 Posts
January 25 2012 18:43 GMT
#13
On January 26 2012 01:05 Pokebunny wrote:
Disagree, thors outrange hydras and just 2shot them and they're effectively an overpriced weaker roach. I laugh every time a zerg makes hydras vs me, seriously they are SO awful vs terran.


This. Hydras are effectively an overpriced weaker roach in all 3 MU's. The only time Z should make hydras is for funky all-ins or if they have a strong need for AA and queens/corruptors won't cut it. I can't say how many times I would have died to queens walking their slow asses off creep to attack me, but Z instead opts for crappy hydras, so I LOL all over his army.
spbelky
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States623 Posts
January 25 2012 18:44 GMT
#14
What's your typical Armory timing look like? and when do you halt/restart marine production?
eu.exodus
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
South Africa1186 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-25 19:14:33
January 25 2012 18:52 GMT
#15
ive had i few people do this to me a few times, could you post replays of you doing this? i usually beat it easily by just spamming lings and a few banelings to bust his wall directly after holding the banshee harass and then kill scvs like crazy and leave them there while i expand and tech.

maybe the people im playing against are doing it wrong? i cant watch youtube shit so please please could you post replays

edit ; i called scvs drones -_- lol
6 poll is a good skill toi have
Specialist
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
United States803 Posts
January 25 2012 19:08 GMT
#16
On January 26 2012 03:44 spbelky wrote:
What's your typical Armory timing look like? and when do you halt/restart marine production?


After I fully harass with 2 banshees, I have many monies in my bank. That's when I throw down the 2 factories, and armory. I don't have the kind "I have to put this at X time" for 2 factories and armory and so forth.
eu.exodus
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
South Africa1186 Posts
January 25 2012 19:12 GMT
#17
On January 26 2012 04:08 SpecialistSc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 26 2012 03:44 spbelky wrote:
What's your typical Armory timing look like? and when do you halt/restart marine production?


After I fully harass with 2 banshees, I have many monies in my bank. That's when I throw down the 2 factories, and armory. I don't have the kind "I have to put this at X time" for 2 factories and armory and so forth.


thats what i thought, directly after your banshee harass you are extremely vulnerable to counter attack, am I right?
6 poll is a good skill toi have
Specialist
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
United States803 Posts
January 25 2012 19:15 GMT
#18
On January 26 2012 04:12 eu.exodus wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 26 2012 04:08 SpecialistSc wrote:
On January 26 2012 03:44 spbelky wrote:
What's your typical Armory timing look like? and when do you halt/restart marine production?


After I fully harass with 2 banshees, I have many monies in my bank. That's when I throw down the 2 factories, and armory. I don't have the kind "I have to put this at X time" for 2 factories and armory and so forth.


thats what i thought, directly after your banshee harass you are extremely vulnerable to counter attack, am I right?


Not really. Counter attack won't do a thing because I still have 2 banshees in my arsenal, as well as 2 thors/2 hellion productions.
spbelky
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States623 Posts
January 25 2012 20:42 GMT
#19
OK so after the banshee harass, your main production is going to be 2 tech factories and a reactor factory off 2base... sounds good.

More newbie questions: When do you get upgrades, and do you get armor or weapon? or 2 armory and get both? O_o
ODKStevez
Profile Joined February 2011
Ireland1225 Posts
January 25 2012 20:47 GMT
#20
Thanks, i'll just be starting Terran and this is a great start to read ^_^
Luppa <3
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