Hi every one.

In ZvP i go 11 pool 18 hatch, so the protoss can't block my hatch.
But in ZvT i go 15 hatch 15 pool, and sometimes the terran put a supply depot or a engineering bay.

How do you react against this ? Throw down the pool ? kill the bay with 5 or more workers ?

Thanks for help.

Beezleking

Canada91 Posts

January 12 2012 11:16 GMT

Get 2-4 zerglings to kill the depot or try to kill the scv with a drone. After the building is down proceed as normal. An alternative is to place the hatchery at your third.

-Xartz-

United Kingdom5 Posts

January 12 2012 11:53 GMT

I tend to expand to another location however this is risky and dependent on the map. If the structure is constructed over 30% I would not waste mining time by pulling workers to destroy it however if its only slightly built its worth the loss.

Bart331

59 Posts

January 12 2012 12:01 GMT

I think safest response is getting asap pool and gas and transform your build into a normal speedling expand

EndOfLineTv

United States741 Posts

January 12 2012 15:27 GMT

if its just scv block, take a few workers down and kill it then do 16h 17 pool or 17h 18P.

If its ebay block:
take your third asap and treat it like your natural or macro hatch

JohnJohnson

United States49 Posts

January 12 2012 16:52 GMT

You have a few options:

1. You anticipate this and send 2 drones to expo, in the event there is a blocking scv, so you can fight it off, or at least have a better chance of preventing this

2. You can take your expo drone, send him a little earlier, and hide him behind the mineral line so that the terran doesn't see it.. Sometimes if people don't see your drone heading down there already, they will go into your main first to scout, then come back out when you send your drone.. Alot of times I have hidden a drone down there, and the scv runs into my main , then i just drop the expo once he goes up the ramp.

3. if he does successfully land a depot, just pool immediately and try and kill his scv. If he runs the scv off, just pool/gas/lord as you normally would, and when your lings come out you basically just sort of have to kill the depot and deal with a late expo.

TibblesEvilCat

United Kingdom766 Posts

January 12 2012 16:57 GMT

i just pool asap, drone abit more, take my gas, get a queen when pool pops and 2-6 lings, speed while the drone+lings take out the blocking building, its the same response as when protoss do that to me.

Disarm22

United States151 Posts

January 12 2012 17:07 GMT

i wouldn't recommend that opening vs toss. If you want to go hatch first, that's perfectly fine, but 14 or 15 hatch is the most standard opening for hatch first and will give you a better economy. If toss or terran block your hatch just throw down pool immediately followed by gas if you are going for a speedling opening. I leave that one drone poking at the pylon or depot until my 4 lings pop out. Against toss, just make sure to keep an eye on your ramp with an overlord or drone following that sneaky probe as he might very well pylon block your ramp. In which case your only legit option is to one base nydus or leave without gg.

Magus.421

France159 Posts

January 12 2012 17:10 GMT

I don't like hatch first in ZvP because of canon and pylon block. But it's not the problem here ^^

Thanks for your response, i'll try pool asap then gas.

zJayy962

1363 Posts

January 12 2012 17:13 GMT

#10

Unless he is doing some kind of 11/11 all in with SCVS, it really shouldn't be that big of a deal to have your hatch blocked. I suggest scouting immediately to see gas timings and to see if he is doing some kind of 2rax pressure/all in then proceed as if you were doing a late 14/14 16/17 hatch or to be safe a 20hatch. Terrans don't scv scout before 12 or 13 because it isn't worth blocking an expo to delay their orbital command. If Terran can successfully block your expo you can rejoice in the fact that he delayed his orbital command to do it therefore you are either:
1. Ahead of him in eco or
2. or come out even or
3. Behind because you made more than 4 lings.

xTrim

472 Posts

January 12 2012 17:24 GMT

#11

On January 13 2012 02:13 zJayy962 wrote:
Unless he is doing some kind of 11/11 all in with SCVS, it really shouldn't be that big of a deal to have your hatch blocked. I suggest scouting immediately to see gas timings and to see if he is doing some kind of 2rax pressure/all in then proceed as if you were doing a late 14/14 16/17 hatch or to be safe a 20hatch. Terrans don't scv scout before 12 or 13 because it isn't worth blocking an expo to delay their orbital command. If Terran can successfully block your expo you can rejoice in the fact that he delayed his orbital command to do it therefore you are either:
1. Ahead of him in eco or
2. or come out even or
3. Behind because you made more than 4 lings.

this is wrong...
scouting right after depot does not delay orbital at all

back to the OP.... if you can react very fast, just do a speedling expand...

its not as economical as hatch first, but it is good enouhg... just deal with it i guess...

Whatson

United States5357 Posts

January 12 2012 17:28 GMT

#12

It can be annoying to deal with, but take your third as your 'natural'. The biggest problem you'll face with this strategy is if the terran goes for some sort of marine-hellion harassment, it'll be harder for you to defend both your main and your third, since the distance is farther away most of the time.
Also, versus Protoss, I would recommend 14 hatch, it's more economic.
If it's a two-player map, I recommend always leaving a drone near your ramp/natural to stop any ramp-blocking or hatch-blocking.

itsme

Canada46 Posts

January 12 2012 17:39 GMT

#13

On January 13 2012 02:10 Magus.421 wrote:
I don't like hatch first in ZvP because of canon and pylon block. But it's not the problem here ^^

Thanks for your response, i'll try pool asap then gas.

I love hatch first vs protoss, cuz i always 9 drone scout, and hide my drone in his main in a 4 player map where most of the time he ffes. If he blocks my hatch, or cannon wall offs my hatch GREAT!, i just drop a proxy on his main while cancelling my other one and do a proxy roach cheese. Its pretty much gg if u can stop him from mining gas. another one would be to 13pool into proxy hatch. since he will be defending his natural but have no defense in his main, making him focus on his natural only. Either way i get the roaches out before his stalkers pop, and then pop 1 spine crawler for safety while i creep spread in his main. EVEN IF all else fails and your proxy dies at his main, if youre able to kill his main, you can just spread your creep tumor and he only has one base to work with cuz he cant pop the nexus back until he gets a robo and obs. Thats when you go muta ling and rape his army and build map control

steelcurtain09

United States87 Posts

January 12 2012 17:47 GMT

#14

On January 13 2012 02:24 xTrim wrote:

Show nested quote +

But scouting after the depot is a scout on 12. I think what he means is you have to scout before the depot if you want to block the hatch and the mining time you lose from pulling that scv is what slows down your rax and then your orbital.

My main reaction though is to immediately throw down my pool, but I won't put down my gas right then. My main reason for not taking my gas yet is if I am able to kill the scv and force the cancel on the depot I then want to be able to immediately put down the hatch instead of losing the extra mining time of that one drone and the minerals of the extractor. I will also do the recommended preemptive pull of two drones. That way if he goes to make a depot I can kill the scv and then the depot, but if he doesn't then i just take a potshot at the scv if possible and then go scout.

ddrddrddrddr

1344 Posts

January 12 2012 18:05 GMT

#15

Get pool, because if he does a big bunker rush you will have not have the chance to put down a spine for defense. The last few days I've seen terran bunker rushing every single time. I'm not sure why but it suddenly became a certainty.

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