EPT[G] AoWııııııııı's PvT Zealots Zealots Everywhere - Page 6
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Oboeman
Canada3980 Posts
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AoWLuXus
Korea (South)109 Posts
On January 05 2012 06:30 matrius wrote: Wow, nice replay. I am truly excited to try this out, and certainly can't hurt my TvP, which is not good at the moment. I was surprised at the expansion timing I must say! And drops, which usually hurt me a lot look to be easy to deal with, which I can't tell you how awesome that is. In fact, because you have so many expansions, even IF a nexus was sniped (which has happened to me more than once), it just isn't a problem, just move your probes around to one of the other bases. You play better than I do when you don't concentrate and I'm glued to the monitor, I must say. Um, there was one point where I thought some stalkers could have really helped - when he attacked your 5th base. You pulled in a round of zealots (like 10). If you had made stalkers, you could have increased your dps (as your zealots had a complete surround) and you could have picked off the medivacs too. I wonder why not? You make it look easy, I would like to see another, and an example of when this didn't work out so well. So far the results have been very lopsided. Or, are you thinking you want to keep counters to yourself for now? Thank you again! I'm going to go into counters when I get time. About the stalkers thing, at that point in the game it was painfully obvious I couldnt lose the game, so couldnt concentrate. I positioned my zealots bad and I didnt warp in Stalkers, cuz then I wouldnt have gas for my 3/3. If you notice the timing, when my 2/2 finish I have exactly enough gas for 3/3, so couldnt afford stalkers. | ||
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Ravomat
Germany422 Posts
On January 05 2012 02:42 AoWLuXus wrote: My apologies! I think I underestimated how many people would find the ideas too abstract -- but Im grinding games as I write this so I can upload replays ASAP! Well, as long as there are no replays it's just a claim and therefor theory-crafting. All you did was saying that zealots are good in PvT. While I agree with this statement you said they are also very good in a very specific situation (aggressive drops to actively trade) which I don't believe until you've proven it via replays. Now to the replay: It's a game against a ridiculously passive Terran who does absolutely nothing and gets steamrolled eventually because you can do whatever you want. You took a greedy 3rd base and got away with it. 4rax marine pressure would have killed your 5sentry 1zealot force with ease. Also I only saw 1 warp prism and that only after 12min when you're on 4 bases already. I thought a trademark of this style would be aggressive zealot trades, I didn't see any. All I saw was greedy play vs turtle play which the greedy guy always wins. You could have done everything you wanted after you took your 3rd. I am still not convinced. How about you post a replay where you lose or at least don't play a super passive guy. | ||
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AoWLuXus
Korea (South)109 Posts
On January 05 2012 06:56 Ravomat wrote: Well, as long as there are no replays it's just a claim and therefor theory-crafting. All you did was saying that zealots are good in PvT. While I agree with this statement you said they are also very good in a very specific situation (aggressive drops to actively trade) which I don't believe until you've proven it via replays. Now to the replay: It's a game against a ridiculously passive Terran who does absolutely nothing and gets steamrolled eventually because you can do whatever you want. You took a greedy 3rd base and got away with it. 4rax marine pressure would have killed your 5sentry 1zealot force with ease. Also I only saw 1 warp prism and that only after 12min when you're on 4 bases already. I thought a trademark of this style would be aggressive zealot trades, I didn't see any. All I saw was greedy play vs turtle play which the greedy guy always wins. You could have done everything you wanted after you took your 3rd. I am still not convinced. How about you post a replay where you lose or at least don't play a super passive guy. Problem is: even as rank 1 gm, you get matched with noobs like the one I played (he's high master)... It's hard to find good Terrans in particular on ladder. I can only pray I get lucky and get someone like ThorZaIN, but meanwhile you'll have to settle for replays against high master noobs. Edit: that sounded like I was rank 1 gm, which I am not. I'm just stating that as a general problem with ladder. Edit2: if you watch replay, my 3rd wasnt greedy. I could defend it with the saved up cb I had. It's a quick 3rd, yes, but it's perfectly safe! | ||
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5unrise
New Zealand646 Posts
It would be nice to have more than 1 replay of this actually working. Can you upload more? I think a good build need at least 5 replays to prove that it is a stable build. | ||
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AoWLuXus
Korea (South)109 Posts
On January 05 2012 07:24 5unrise wrote: Hey dude, It would be nice to have more than 1 replay of this actually working. Can you upload more? I think a good build need at least 5 replays to prove that it is a stable build. This is a common missunderstanding. This is not a guide about a build. This is a guide of a way to approach mid-game PvT. and yes, replays are coming as soon as I meet more Terrans. There are almost no Terrans on EU ladder ... and my friends are scared of my zealot strat... I will add replays as soon as I can. | ||
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Ravomat
Germany422 Posts
On January 05 2012 07:14 AoWLuXus wrote: Problem is: even as rank 1 gm, you get matched with noobs like the one I played (he's high master)... It's hard to find good Terrans in particular on ladder. I can only pray I get lucky and get someone like ThorZaIN, but meanwhile you'll have to settle for replays against high master noobs. Edit: that sounded like I was rank 1 gm, which I am not. I'm just stating that as a general problem with ladder. Edit2: if you watch replay, my 3rd wasnt greedy. I could defend it with the saved up cb I had. It's a quick 3rd, yes, but it's perfectly safe! A 3rd nexus at 6:20 right when the first expo finishes is pretty damn greedy if you ask me. For me to believe it was safe I have to ask for more replays especially against 4rax plays. You have no knowledge of what terran is doing. All you know he built a bunker though I have seen 2rax plays which get a bunker to deceive protoss. I just don't believe it's safe especially because you start your double upgrades right after you start building your 3rd base. Any dedicated push should at least kill your 3rd. Though I realize I can't blame you for your opponent's negligence of scouting. | ||
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AoWLuXus
Korea (South)109 Posts
On January 05 2012 08:05 Ravomat wrote: A 3rd nexus at 6:20 right when the first expo finishes is pretty damn greedy if you ask me. For me to believe it was safe I have to ask for more replays especially against 4rax plays. You have no knowledge of what terran is doing. All you know he built a bunker though I have seen 2rax plays which get a bunker to deceive protoss. I just don't believe it's safe especially because you start your double upgrades right after you start building your 3rd base. Any dedicated push should at least kill your 3rd. Though I realize I can't blame you for your opponent's negligence of scouting. WORST WORST WORST case scenario, I would be forced to cancel my 3rd, and then I would be infinitely ahead anyway. It's only greedy if you're praying your opponent doesnt know or doesnt assume which I am not. I'm playing calculatedly. 'tis not greed, it's game understanding. | ||
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chestnutcc
India429 Posts
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frignr
United States19 Posts
It looks like zealots won't do much, at least not till charge | ||
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AoWLuXus
Korea (South)109 Posts
On January 05 2012 08:19 chestnutcc wrote: omg epic replay, maxed at 15 minutes and an endless swarm of 3/3 zealots. Would like to see some transition based replays though. This will be hard. Most of my opponents just die. But hopefully I get a good Terran like ThorZaIN or Kas soon. | ||
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AoWLuXus
Korea (South)109 Posts
On January 05 2012 08:24 frignr wrote: What would you do against a mass reaper strategy like this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xo62-G1T99s It looks like zealots won't do much, at least not till charge I dont play on NA server, so I dont run into stupid strategies like mass reaper :D jokes aside, I would probably warp in Stalkers ^^ | ||
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Tz1k1
England6 Posts
Strategies look nice, and i look forward to seeing them on stream more often! | ||
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VashTS
United States1675 Posts
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AoWLuXus
Korea (South)109 Posts
game one was against my mid-master friend XeRoX game two was against his mid-master friend | ||
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Irishkimbob
Ireland1 Post
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AoWLuXus
Korea (South)109 Posts
On January 05 2012 13:55 Irishkimbob wrote: CHeers for this guide bro its looking good :D Finding it very useful in terms of improving my play and gerel builds vs terran :D cant wait to crush some noob terrans wiv ma zealots :D ♥ | ||
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matrius
100 Posts
I tried this strat/approach out a few times with good success so far. I lost my natural to a 1-1-1, but then the next time held. Both times I won the game. In the second game that I held my natural, I did a counter attack that wasn't very efficient - can be hard to attack a bunkered/sieged up terran. One game I lost, but it was my fault, new to strat, didn't macro properly. He attacked with MMMG, and I couldn't get off my FF. One thing that is that I don't know what to do after my third. Zealots, even with upgrades, start to be less effective in ball encounters, and on maps like metalopolis, I find it hard to flank...would love to see some replays of that map, and look forward to reading transitions... On January 05 2012 12:34 AoWLuXus wrote: In all seriousness, I only ran into 1 Terran on ladder today... but as compensation I posted two random replays of Nexus Nexus and ghost drop ♥ game one was against my mid-master friend XeRoX game two was against his mid-master friend | ||
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caradoc
Canada3022 Posts
I just think he stumbled upon a style in a couple games, it worked in those situations, then decided to write a guide about it as though it was really fleshed out. The fact that he's now 'grinding out games' to get replays despite the fact that he advises other people to grind 'thousands of games' (like him?) in order to get a sense of the timings, and the fact that there is zero content in the OP kinda annoys me-- he's compensating for content with claims and promises and ego and hand waving on how its a philosophy rather than a strategy and doesn't have any sense of actual timings or scenarios that the build encounters. He can't even answer questions on how to mitigate getting really behind in tech while facing a very turtley opponent which would be the biggest issue this 'philosophy' encounters. I happen to think it's an interesting idea, but the pretensiousness irritates me to no end. He's posturing as some benificent helpful expert on everything, (I guess its just too bad that even as rank 1 GM he has to face noob masters on the ladder so can't give us rabble better replays) but he actually doesn't have the experience of playing this build in a variety of situations either. The idea has some potential in some situations, the 'Guide' aspect of this is *sigh*. imo, should just be honest and present it as what it is, an interesting idea, and a [D] thread-- calling it a guide and treating it as such actually hampers discussion. re: the actual style itself, in the FPVOD, you shouldn't place your buildings like that. good drop play will rip you apart because you're essentially building a terran drop zone with a narrow choke where your zealots will be useless and he can take out all your buildings. | ||
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MrFrenchy
Canada37 Posts
Have you played this build against/have tips for holding a strong 1-1-1? Using this style I got rolled by a 1-1-1ing terran who faked an expansion (diamond league). | ||
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