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[D][G] Zealot-Archon Macro PvZ - Page 3

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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SidewinderSC2
Profile Joined November 2011
United States236 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-27 16:40:30
December 27 2011 16:31 GMT
#41
So, kcdc.. I've actually used the opener you've suggested and I really like it! Thanks for the tip!

OP updated.
Harmonized
Profile Joined August 2010
57 Posts
December 27 2011 18:22 GMT
#42
Considering you have like 0 defense early on, would this opening work on maps like Shattered temple where you can´t build a full wall? Even if you do have 2 cannons, without a zealot or sentry I don´t really see how you would deal with simple ling runby´s!
SidewinderSC2
Profile Joined November 2011
United States236 Posts
December 29 2011 09:13 GMT
#43
On December 28 2011 03:22 Harmonized wrote:
Considering you have like 0 defense early on, would this opening work on maps like Shattered temple where you can´t build a full wall? Even if you do have 2 cannons, without a zealot or sentry I don´t really see how you would deal with simple ling runby´s!


Well, any build requires logical adjustment in less than ideal game situations. I mention potential all-ins in the first couple of sections, but the basic answer is that if you can scout an all-in coming then you should only put 1 Stargate down, make extra cannons, a sentry or two and just micro your best.. same goes for any Forge Expand opener.

I've had success with this build on Shattered in particular, usually due to the Zerg trying to 2-base all-in, it failing and me just running them over with a counter push at some point. You do need to have top notch scouting to make this work, so if you're not confident in that then you can always run something different, or just take later gasses for more cannons, possibly only put 1 Stargate down, etc. I do have an alternate opener in the build order that does better on maps where walling off fully isn't exactly convenient.
Markwerf
Profile Joined March 2010
Netherlands3728 Posts
December 29 2011 09:39 GMT
#44
It's silly to plan zealot/archon play so far ahead. Zealot/archon stinks hard against pure roach armies or roach/hydra armies. It's a fine followup against ling based armies but having a guide or pre-planned plan to go for it is just poor play I think, if you see or suspect mostly roach play I'd always advise to go stalker/colossus instead.
SidewinderSC2
Profile Joined November 2011
United States236 Posts
January 02 2012 20:16 GMT
#45
Updated the build to give a few extra options and scouting reads.
mashix
Profile Joined December 2010
Singapore21 Posts
January 03 2012 04:30 GMT
#46
I can imagine that this build might have a hard time vs 2 bases hydra lings. I will consider to either have a faster robo, stop at 2 or 4 voidrays and start building phoenixes OR to rush to chargelots if zerg doesn't have a fast 3rd or very late 3rd.
SidewinderSC2
Profile Joined November 2011
United States236 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-06 06:15:26
January 06 2012 06:14 GMT
#47
On January 03 2012 13:30 mashix wrote:
I can imagine that this build might have a hard time vs 2 bases hydra lings. I will consider to either have a faster robo, stop at 2 or 4 voidrays and start building phoenixes OR to rush to chargelots if zerg doesn't have a fast 3rd or very late 3rd.


Hydra/Ling timings are actually really easy to hold with this build and often result in a free win. You should have, at minimum, Zealots out and Hydras are the same speed off creep as Zealots, meaning if they try to fight at all they are losing everything and with acceptable Void Ray micro you shouldn't lose any.

The biggest problem with this build is actually blind 2-base Spire play, which is actually dumb from Zergs but it just happens to work out considering I'm not following my Void Rays up with anything. I'm working on adjustments to change the unit composition a bit for Mutas considering losing your Void Rays is really harmful. Other than that, against standard Roach/Hydra, which is what most Zergs will do in reaction to your 2 Stargates, this build has a really nice winrate.
RRDjhonn
Profile Joined January 2012
34 Posts
January 24 2012 19:41 GMT
#48

mmm im pretty sure that this is not working in my league Low master EU, because 9/10 games zergys focus on imbalisk/tons of spines/spore gameplay, if they saw FFE drone up to fast spire always and they had spire up around 8:30 mark so when u cames with 4 voids or 3 voids and zealots pressure, you have been just raped with 10-14 mutalisks and then zerg just go to your base and enjoy with free probes.

this build seems solid, but with the current metagame not think it works because if zerg dont scout 7gateway +1 weapon all-in after FFE they just get spire first.
Yaki
Profile Joined April 2011
France4234 Posts
January 24 2012 20:35 GMT
#49
interesting build, gonna work on it some time soon when i'll have the time. thanks
MC ■ MarineKing ■ LosirA ■ To someone who has lost after trying his best, no words from the winner can console him.
WolfBro
Profile Joined December 2011
United States59 Posts
January 27 2012 05:06 GMT
#50
When do you take your 3rd and 4th gas with the zealot/void ray harassment?
Mutown
Profile Joined February 2012
United States13 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-26 07:16:48
February 26 2012 07:15 GMT
#51
Hey Sidewinder, I really like this build! Do you have any more replays? It would be great if you had some from the latest patch and against roach/infestor, banneling/roach or nydus hydras.
ipwntbarney
Profile Joined September 2011
United States141 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-26 10:24:13
February 26 2012 10:22 GMT
#52
Zerg here. How would this build do against a 2-base roach/ling all-in? I do one that usually arrives at your base with 7 roaches and ~20 lings at around 7:30, which seems to be around the time that the first 2 voids pop out. If I deny scouting sufficiently, how would you respond? The first set of roaches and lings could probably do sufficient damage to put me ahead, and I could just make spores and extra queens, and set up for a roach/hydra follow-up before you could get enough archons to defend.
[UoN]Sentinel
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States11320 Posts
July 18 2012 02:17 GMT
#53
I'm going to bump this because this build just singlehandedly won me a tournament. Well my Ro8 was against a protoss but my other four sets were all against zergs and I used this to beat all of them!

That said, like the guy above me, what do you do against a 2-base roach/ling all in? And how early do you have to scout it to adequately prepare? Just wall off tightly with cannons or what? Because I've had trouble on Daybreak with this build and maps with wide chokes in general are hard to counter that all in push.

And again, very resilient. I too lost my natural and won the finals of the tourney. And it's reminiscent of Brood War corsair -> zealot archon goon builds so it comes more naturally.
Нас зовет дух отцов, память старых бойцов, дух Москвы и твердыня Полтавы
ineversmile
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States583 Posts
July 19 2012 20:26 GMT
#54
Do you have replays of those top 4 matches from the tournament, Sentinel? That would be awesome.
Nostradamus.146@AM, Nostradamus.398@KR, Nostradamus.922@EU http://www.teamliquid.net/blog/ins
Belial88
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States5217 Posts
July 19 2012 20:53 GMT
#55
On January 25 2012 04:41 RRDjhonn wrote:

mmm im pretty sure that this is not working in my league Low master EU, because 9/10 games zergys focus on imbalisk/tons of spines/spore gameplay, if they saw FFE drone up to fast spire always and they had spire up around 8:30 mark so when u cames with 4 voids or 3 voids and zealots pressure, you have been just raped with 10-14 mutalisks and then zerg just go to your base and enjoy with free probes.

this build seems solid, but with the current metagame not think it works because if zerg dont scout 7gateway +1 weapon all-in after FFE they just get spire first.


That sounds like the metagame from half a year ago... infestors is where it's at now. That, and roach/hydra/corruptor (particularly against stargate openers).
How to build a $500 i7-3770K Ultimate Computer:http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=392709 ******** 100% Safe Razorless Delid Method! http://www.overclock.net/t/1376206/how-to-delid-your-ivy-bridge-cpu-with-out-a-razor-blade/0_100
ineversmile
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States583 Posts
July 19 2012 21:14 GMT
#56
On July 20 2012 05:53 Belial88 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 25 2012 04:41 RRDjhonn wrote:

mmm im pretty sure that this is not working in my league Low master EU, because 9/10 games zergys focus on imbalisk/tons of spines/spore gameplay, if they saw FFE drone up to fast spire always and they had spire up around 8:30 mark so when u cames with 4 voids or 3 voids and zealots pressure, you have been just raped with 10-14 mutalisks and then zerg just go to your base and enjoy with free probes.

this build seems solid, but with the current metagame not think it works because if zerg dont scout 7gateway +1 weapon all-in after FFE they just get spire first.


That sounds like the metagame from half a year ago... infestors is where it's at now. That, and roach/hydra/corruptor (particularly against stargate openers).


If you check the date, it is half a year ago....
Nostradamus.146@AM, Nostradamus.398@KR, Nostradamus.922@EU http://www.teamliquid.net/blog/ins
j.k.l
Profile Joined September 2012
112 Posts
September 14 2012 21:20 GMT
#57
is this build still effective? if not which guide do you suggest to follow in the current metagame?
~ Spirit will set you free ~
SidewinderSC2
Profile Joined November 2011
United States236 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-15 03:38:38
September 15 2012 03:33 GMT
#58
This build is likely still effective at lower levels, but since the meta has changed so much since when this was posted (~9 months ago), I am going to say this is not a particularly stable build. Even in the build notes, it mentions a common 3rd timing of 7:30.. haha. This build would straight up lose to 3-base Muta builds.. so, yeah, it has huge holes. You might still win against 3-base Infestor builds though, which are sort of common, only because hitting fungals on Charge Zealots with good energy efficiency is pretty hard.

In the modern meta, I would use the Mothership Expand and transition into Zealot Archon after your 3rd is established (instead of straight to Carriers). The idea behind that is Vortex + all Melee units = huge efficiency.

If you win with this build now, it's likely because it's so unexpected, or because your opponent makes a lot of mistakes.
kmillz
Profile Joined August 2010
United States1548 Posts
September 15 2012 04:04 GMT
#59
On September 15 2012 06:20 j.k.l wrote:
is this build still effective? if not which guide do you suggest to follow in the current metagame?


Ahhh..I hate you for bumping this. I didn't even realize it was posted in December and was considering incorporating it into my play seeing how effective it was...meta game has indeed changed :[
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