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[G] CreatorPrime PvT - Page 14

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
Prev 1 12 13 14 15 16 17 Next All
monk
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States8476 Posts
July 15 2012 15:07 GMT
#261
For those of you who have been having trouble with 10-12 minute double reactor rax, medivac timings, Creator has recently made a new innovation to the strategy to help alleviate your worries. It has to do with gateway timings. For example, with Startale builds, you do 3 -> 5 -> 7 gateways. Standard gateway timings for 2 base protoss usually looks like 3 gates then add 3 gates between 8:30 and 9:00. However, this is not possible for a creatorprime style, because you get so much tech(2 forges, 4 upgrades, twilight, blink, robo bay) before adding those 3 gateways. Thus, if you follow the standard 3 into 6 gateway configuration, your gateways end up being added around the 10 minute mark, which is just slightly too late for medivac timings.

Creator's innovation is to go from 3 into 4 gateways, adding the 4th gateway at the 8:30 mark. His new build looks something like:
FE into 3 gate into robo into double forge into twilight into 4th gateway into robo bay into nexus/5th + 6th gateways, where the 3rd and 5th and 6th gateways are interchangeable, depending on your situation.
With this build, which has a faster 4th gateway and faster robo bay, you are now way more safe during a large variety of timings.
10-12 minutes: You have the extra gateway to pump out units you wouldn't normally have with the original creatorprime style. It only comes out to about 2 extra units at 10 minutes, but it makes a huge difference in this specific timing window when both armies are small.
12-14 minutes: You have slightly faster colossi to make frontal attacks impossible.
14 minutes beyond: Your 2-2 upgrades kick in and you're almost always 2 upgrades ahead of your opponent with a formidable army.

Other things to note:
Creator gets 3 sentries now instead of 4 and has been for a long time. This has been the trend in Korean PvT for a long time and isn't anything new.
Only 1 immortal instead of 2; pretty obvious versus double reactor opening
Gas timings: Creator gets extremely fast gas this game, partly because of his gate gas nexus opening. You generally won't want gas this fast.

Here's a link of a game:
http://www.own3d.tv/KhaldorTV/video/710881
Moderator
Serge89
Profile Joined May 2011
Belgium38 Posts
July 15 2012 17:05 GMT
#262
I have also seen him left his double forge style for fast forge + twilight, dont know if u have noticed. He's not focusing on templar like lots of players do and he makes more units for the 10-12mins timings.
Xaeldaren
Profile Joined June 2010
Ireland588 Posts
July 16 2012 21:07 GMT
#263
Here are two replays of my first attempts at doing this style. I pretty much get trashed. I've been on a break from SC2 for the past two weeks, but I didn't realise I was this awful:

http://drop.sc/222996

http://drop.sc/222995


Can anyone provide advice as to what needs improving in my play and how I can execute this build better? Thanks.
Aelfric
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Turkey1496 Posts
July 17 2012 22:29 GMT
#264
On July 16 2012 00:07 NrGmonk wrote:
For those of you who have been having trouble with 10-12 minute double reactor rax, medivac timings, Creator has recently made a new innovation to the strategy to help alleviate your worries. It has to do with gateway timings. For example, with Startale builds, you do 3 -> 5 -> 7 gateways. Standard gateway timings for 2 base protoss usually looks like 3 gates then add 3 gates between 8:30 and 9:00. However, this is not possible for a creatorprime style, because you get so much tech(2 forges, 4 upgrades, twilight, blink, robo bay) before adding those 3 gateways. Thus, if you follow the standard 3 into 6 gateway configuration, your gateways end up being added around the 10 minute mark, which is just slightly too late for medivac timings.

Creator's innovation is to go from 3 into 4 gateways, adding the 4th gateway at the 8:30 mark. His new build looks something like:
FE into 3 gate into robo into double forge into twilight into 4th gateway into robo bay into nexus/5th + 6th gateways, where the 3rd and 5th and 6th gateways are interchangeable, depending on your situation.
With this build, which has a faster 4th gateway and faster robo bay, you are now way more safe during a large variety of timings.
10-12 minutes: You have the extra gateway to pump out units you wouldn't normally have with the original creatorprime style. It only comes out to about 2 extra units at 10 minutes, but it makes a huge difference in this specific timing window when both armies are small.
12-14 minutes: You have slightly faster colossi to make frontal attacks impossible.
14 minutes beyond: Your 2-2 upgrades kick in and you're almost always 2 upgrades ahead of your opponent with a formidable army.

Other things to note:
Creator gets 3 sentries now instead of 4 and has been for a long time. This has been the trend in Korean PvT for a long time and isn't anything new.
Only 1 immortal instead of 2; pretty obvious versus double reactor opening
Gas timings: Creator gets extremely fast gas this game, partly because of his gate gas nexus opening. You generally won't want gas this fast.

Here's a link of a game:
http://www.own3d.tv/KhaldorTV/video/710881

Can we get some "new" replays with that modified style, maybe you doing it ?
Tomorrow never comes until its too late...
Wampaibist
Profile Joined July 2010
United States478 Posts
July 21 2012 01:17 GMT
#265
so timing on the first colossus isn't very important and more so centered on supply(130)?

ZeromuS
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada13389 Posts
July 21 2012 04:07 GMT
#266
On July 18 2012 07:29 Aelfric wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 16 2012 00:07 NrGmonk wrote:
For those of you who have been having trouble with 10-12 minute double reactor rax, medivac timings, Creator has recently made a new innovation to the strategy to help alleviate your worries. It has to do with gateway timings. For example, with Startale builds, you do 3 -> 5 -> 7 gateways. Standard gateway timings for 2 base protoss usually looks like 3 gates then add 3 gates between 8:30 and 9:00. However, this is not possible for a creatorprime style, because you get so much tech(2 forges, 4 upgrades, twilight, blink, robo bay) before adding those 3 gateways. Thus, if you follow the standard 3 into 6 gateway configuration, your gateways end up being added around the 10 minute mark, which is just slightly too late for medivac timings.

Creator's innovation is to go from 3 into 4 gateways, adding the 4th gateway at the 8:30 mark. His new build looks something like:
FE into 3 gate into robo into double forge into twilight into 4th gateway into robo bay into nexus/5th + 6th gateways, where the 3rd and 5th and 6th gateways are interchangeable, depending on your situation.
With this build, which has a faster 4th gateway and faster robo bay, you are now way more safe during a large variety of timings.
10-12 minutes: You have the extra gateway to pump out units you wouldn't normally have with the original creatorprime style. It only comes out to about 2 extra units at 10 minutes, but it makes a huge difference in this specific timing window when both armies are small.
12-14 minutes: You have slightly faster colossi to make frontal attacks impossible.
14 minutes beyond: Your 2-2 upgrades kick in and you're almost always 2 upgrades ahead of your opponent with a formidable army.

Other things to note:
Creator gets 3 sentries now instead of 4 and has been for a long time. This has been the trend in Korean PvT for a long time and isn't anything new.
Only 1 immortal instead of 2; pretty obvious versus double reactor opening
Gas timings: Creator gets extremely fast gas this game, partly because of his gate gas nexus opening. You generally won't want gas this fast.

Here's a link of a game:
http://www.own3d.tv/KhaldorTV/video/710881

Can we get some "new" replays with that modified style, maybe you doing it ?


I would absolutely love this. I would like to watch these replays as I have a hard time dealing with the medivac timings and heavy rax. I really feel super contained at the 12 minute mark to 2 bases. It might just be me underestimating how strong my army is though.
StrategyRTS forever | @ZeromuS_plays | www.twitch.tv/Zeromus_
etherealfall
Profile Joined December 2011
Australia476 Posts
July 21 2012 04:08 GMT
#267
I would say you should be able to expand after 2 colossus as long as you can defend drops well. It can feel uncomfortable but he has to account for your colossus production with vikings and during the set up of the third, I would start the tech switch to templars.
Alejandrisha
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States6565 Posts
July 21 2012 04:31 GMT
#268
funny to see the standard sentry count decline over time. at one point is was SIX on many maps :p
get rich or die mining
TL+ Member
ZeromuS
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada13389 Posts
July 21 2012 04:35 GMT
#269
On July 21 2012 13:31 Alejandrisha wrote:
funny to see the standard sentry count decline over time. at one point is was SIX on many maps :p


We also didnt like templar with the amulet. Collossus were "better"
StrategyRTS forever | @ZeromuS_plays | www.twitch.tv/Zeromus_
Alejandrisha
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States6565 Posts
July 21 2012 04:36 GMT
#270
On July 21 2012 13:35 ZeromuS wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 21 2012 13:31 Alejandrisha wrote:
funny to see the standard sentry count decline over time. at one point is was SIX on many maps :p


We also didnt like templar with the amulet. Collossus were "better"

I never liked colossus at all in pvt in when they were the cool thing to get. i was always doin super fast HT plays haha. naniwa kinda convinced me colossus were better by idk ALWAYS going stalk colossus in pvt and winning every game :p
get rich or die mining
TL+ Member
DmQu.Nguyen
Profile Joined July 2012
Afghanistan1 Post
July 21 2012 06:36 GMT
#271
Is this a playstyle that is still working?
Whitewing
Profile Joined October 2010
United States7483 Posts
July 21 2012 06:46 GMT
#272
On July 21 2012 13:31 Alejandrisha wrote:
funny to see the standard sentry count decline over time. at one point is was SIX on many maps :p


Well, people are getting better with their forcefield efficiency, and obviously you want to minimize the amount of gas you have to spend on sentries, so if you can achieve the same effect with 3 as you can with 4, it's only natural =p.

But yeah, watching old games, people sucked horribly with forcefields (except for MC).
Strategy"You know I fucking hate the way you play, right?" ~SC2John
Indrium
Profile Joined November 2010
United States2236 Posts
July 22 2012 00:13 GMT
#273
On July 21 2012 13:07 ZeromuS wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 07:29 Aelfric wrote:
On July 16 2012 00:07 NrGmonk wrote:
For those of you who have been having trouble with 10-12 minute double reactor rax, medivac timings, Creator has recently made a new innovation to the strategy to help alleviate your worries. It has to do with gateway timings. For example, with Startale builds, you do 3 -> 5 -> 7 gateways. Standard gateway timings for 2 base protoss usually looks like 3 gates then add 3 gates between 8:30 and 9:00. However, this is not possible for a creatorprime style, because you get so much tech(2 forges, 4 upgrades, twilight, blink, robo bay) before adding those 3 gateways. Thus, if you follow the standard 3 into 6 gateway configuration, your gateways end up being added around the 10 minute mark, which is just slightly too late for medivac timings.

Creator's innovation is to go from 3 into 4 gateways, adding the 4th gateway at the 8:30 mark. His new build looks something like:
FE into 3 gate into robo into double forge into twilight into 4th gateway into robo bay into nexus/5th + 6th gateways, where the 3rd and 5th and 6th gateways are interchangeable, depending on your situation.
With this build, which has a faster 4th gateway and faster robo bay, you are now way more safe during a large variety of timings.
10-12 minutes: You have the extra gateway to pump out units you wouldn't normally have with the original creatorprime style. It only comes out to about 2 extra units at 10 minutes, but it makes a huge difference in this specific timing window when both armies are small.
12-14 minutes: You have slightly faster colossi to make frontal attacks impossible.
14 minutes beyond: Your 2-2 upgrades kick in and you're almost always 2 upgrades ahead of your opponent with a formidable army.

Other things to note:
Creator gets 3 sentries now instead of 4 and has been for a long time. This has been the trend in Korean PvT for a long time and isn't anything new.
Only 1 immortal instead of 2; pretty obvious versus double reactor opening
Gas timings: Creator gets extremely fast gas this game, partly because of his gate gas nexus opening. You generally won't want gas this fast.

Here's a link of a game:
http://www.own3d.tv/KhaldorTV/video/710881

Can we get some "new" replays with that modified style, maybe you doing it ?


I would absolutely love this. I would like to watch these replays as I have a hard time dealing with the medivac timings and heavy rax. I really feel super contained at the 12 minute mark to 2 bases. It might just be me underestimating how strong my army is though.


http://www.sc2-replays.net/de/replays/?adv_search=1&all=1&event=74

They're in there.
etherealfall
Profile Joined December 2011
Australia476 Posts
July 22 2012 12:22 GMT
#274
What do you do verse 15cc into 4 rax + SCV pull?
Alejandrisha
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States6565 Posts
July 23 2012 01:08 GMT
#275
On July 22 2012 21:22 etherealfall wrote:
What do you do verse 15cc into 4 rax + SCV pull?

you'd see it coming out of the gate with your stalker(s) and from there, Id advise against adding any sentries and I would tell you to make pure cb'd stalkers and get maximum kiting distance from his base to yours. obviously, it will still be tough since you've invested in the robo at that point, and probably the 2 forges as well. cancel +1/+1 immediately if you've started them
get rich or die mining
TL+ Member
Abusion
Profile Joined March 2011
United Kingdom184 Posts
July 23 2012 01:33 GMT
#276
On July 23 2012 10:08 Alejandrisha wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 22 2012 21:22 etherealfall wrote:
What do you do verse 15cc into 4 rax + SCV pull?

you'd see it coming out of the gate with your stalker(s) and from there, Id advise against adding any sentries and I would tell you to make pure cb'd stalkers and get maximum kiting distance from his base to yours. obviously, it will still be tough since you've invested in the robo at that point, and probably the 2 forges as well. cancel +1/+1 immediately if you've started them

can't you just make a lot of cannons?
Pylons + Probes
etherealfall
Profile Joined December 2011
Australia476 Posts
July 23 2012 02:05 GMT
#277
Not enough time i think. I'll keep your advise in mind if i come across it again alejandrisha
-MoOsE-
Profile Joined March 2011
United States236 Posts
July 27 2012 18:13 GMT
#278
So do we use this new variation against the double tech lab too, or just the double reactor.
The King in the North Fighting
velego
Profile Joined December 2011
Spain8 Posts
July 27 2012 21:05 GMT
#279
I use to do this build on high/top master (as my standard PvT) and both styles are viable and powerful. With the old one is easier to defend on the top of a ramp, but you will need really good ff against a good terran to take your third (if he goes 5 rax before third)
With the new style is a bit more difficult to defend if he tries to drop and attack your natural at the same time because you would have only one inmortal and less sentrys, but the first colossi is done about 1 minute earlier, so you would take your third 1 minute before in the worst scenario.
"Mi life for Aiur"
Yue13
Profile Joined July 2012
11 Posts
July 28 2012 16:05 GMT
#280
I have been using this lately.
This build is really strong
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