I face this build regularly and I have to say I am surprised cause I don't feel it is that threatening, (although some people may have difficulties with it). I personnally go 3 hatchs (to mass speedlings), not necessarily a macro hatch (why not expand?) prefer gold if you can, stay low on drones (like around 35/40), take two gas; and mass up speedlings with +1 melee upgrade, while slowly teching to hydras (which usually come as a reinforcement during the push). I don't make spines except if I managed my macro badly and have too much minerals, because they are bad against immortals and zealots; I don't make extra queens either, or roaches for the same reason. Just put pressure with your speedlings while he is moving out, to delay the push and force some forcefields, and engage in a open space... I met some expand variation with this build. So when you killed the push, do not counter, rather drone a lot, and transition to spire (good vs robo) while being careful about some extra cheese like DTs.
Doing this, at my low master level, is kind of free win...
It hits 1min later than your push (10min for 2, 12 for 3), solves ling problem, much easier to drop micro, lets you get prism spd, 6range on colo is strong bait to make them want to target it when you drop micro and take 0 shots from roaches much like this vid: I wouldn't say it's bad, unless you think your own play is bad >.> b/c it's pretty much the same thing
This really makes me wonder... would it be possible to do a FFE build into a 2 base variation of this that hits at similar time? With the extra economy it'll be possible to pull out 2 robos and more gates right...?
On January 19 2012 06:35 JohnnySC wrote: It hits 1min later than your push (10min for 2, 12 for 3), solves ling problem, much easier to drop micro, lets you get prism spd, 6range on colo is strong bait to make them want to target it when you drop micro and take 0 shots from roaches much like this vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hm8pEwvLU98 I wouldn't say it's bad, unless you think your own play is bad >.> b/c it's pretty much the same thing
You just lose to mutas, and you can still lose to mass ling, or roach pretty easily, also much much more easy to lose beacause of a micro mistake with that build.
what are you talking about, its just the reverse of your build. you can lose to mass lings with the immortal strat and you have to warp zlots to counter balance. all you have to do is warp in some stalkers, as you said in your post. your going to scout with the harass anyways and reading mutas is a lot more obvious than any other build they do since it is full proof vs mass lings and its retarded to go roach muta that early on. I still have yet to lose vs mass lings. And you know as well as I do that mutas are horrible units that early on vs 4sentry + stalkers. I do lose to corruptors sometimes, but it rarely ever comes up and they're still dead b/c of the amount they invest just to kill 2colo. No range colo are the ultimate bait and I am confident that my micro is much better than theirs. So, I'll agree with you that doing it with colo isn't good for people in lower low masters/below that can't handle the micro. =D
First I want to thank you, amazing build that I've been using and haven't lost with :D
However, just recently I faced a zerg that got an early baneling nest and just busted down my zealot at the front door before my prism was able to scout the next. the bust and zerglings weren't enough to win (only at gold level), it did force me to push a minute late with 1 less immortal. I do feel like in Masters it could definitely be a problem. Have you ever faced a zerg that got a bnest? how did you react?
I do something similar, but im just high diamond whos sniffing on the master-flower...
If they go for no gas i usually chrono 2nd zealot and a stalker and go for early aggression, sometime they make misstakes and i can snipe a queen or something.
Then i drop the more common 2 zealot 2 sentry and snipe probes, dont want to show my immortals pre the main attack And you soon notice if you should go more zealot or stalker heavy, specialy after the main drop.
On January 21 2012 11:01 tKoCrawl wrote: First I want to thank you, amazing build that I've been using and haven't lost with :D
However, just recently I faced a zerg that got an early baneling nest and just busted down my zealot at the front door before my prism was able to scout the next. the bust and zerglings weren't enough to win (only at gold level), it did force me to push a minute late with 1 less immortal. I do feel like in Masters it could definitely be a problem. Have you ever faced a zerg that got a bnest? how did you react?
Thanks : )
Transition in to losing. Honestly I have no idea =D
On January 21 2012 11:01 tKoCrawl wrote: First I want to thank you, amazing build that I've been using and haven't lost with :D
However, just recently I faced a zerg that got an early baneling nest and just busted down my zealot at the front door before my prism was able to scout the next. the bust and zerglings weren't enough to win (only at gold level), it did force me to push a minute late with 1 less immortal. I do feel like in Masters it could definitely be a problem. Have you ever faced a zerg that got a bnest? how did you react?
Thanks : )
I've never had a baneling bust attempt before my 3rd gateway unit was out (sentry). I'm not sure it's possible. Once that sentry (the first of many sentries coming out of that gate) is out you can buy a lot of time or even make him waste most of his banelings.
I've never done this but I heard dropping an immortal on banelings and picking it up again is a lot of fun :D
On January 19 2012 08:45 ctypewriter wrote: This really makes me wonder... would it be possible to do a FFE build into a 2 base variation of this that hits at similar time? With the extra economy it'll be possible to pull out 2 robos and more gates right...?
Holy shit that sounds like it would be so much fun... having TWO warp prisms and harass with both of them simultaneously? sounds like a party 2 me :D I'm gonna see if I can come up with a reasonable build involving warp prism immortal harass off of an FFE and what sort of timing attack would be the strongest...
This is a really great 1base build to challenge ur opponents micro. This is working really well at diamond level where zerg tend to rely heavily on their macro to beat one base all ins.
To any lower level players working on an immortal build like this, the key is getting the 4 sentries as early as possible to save up energy, and then hitting those FF perfectly, also make sure to FF the ramp, as if u kill the expo its GG for the zerg. Also keep ur WP behind ur army just on the edge of creep, if u lose ur WP its GG as you normally don't have a reinforcing pylon.
I recommend not doing the WP harras until the rest of ur build is finely tuned. What I'm doing atm is getting the WP first out of the robo and scouting (I know) with it, and then going to the watch tower and warping in a zealot to take it. Many times the zerg will overeact by overbuilding units at this stage of the game and you can deny the zerg information as to when the push is coming, making it harder to hold the 10 minute push.
With perfect army positioning and micro/ff's I dont think this push is possible to hold. That amount of FF combined with that DPS makes this push down right imbalanced. (fun idea: try doing this push without any sentries and see how hard you get crushed by just about anything except pure roach, it will really make you repect the power of good FF vs zerg).
On January 19 2012 08:45 ctypewriter wrote: This really makes me wonder... would it be possible to do a FFE build into a 2 base variation of this that hits at similar time? With the extra economy it'll be possible to pull out 2 robos and more gates right...?
Holy shit that sounds like it would be so much fun... having TWO warp prisms and harass with both of them simultaneously? sounds like a party 2 me :D I'm gonna see if I can come up with a reasonable build involving warp prism immortal harass off of an FFE and what sort of timing attack would be the strongest...
Unfortunately I think any immortal timing off a FFE loses to muta, would have been a nice non-allin idea though.
On January 18 2012 18:32 Macpo wrote: I face this build regularly and I have to say I am surprised cause I don't feel it is that threatening, (although some people may have difficulties with it). I personnally go 3 hatchs (to mass speedlings), not necessarily a macro hatch (why not expand?) prefer gold if you can, stay low on drones (like around 35/40), take two gas; and mass up speedlings with +1 melee upgrade, while slowly teching to hydras (which usually come as a reinforcement during the push). I don't make spines except if I managed my macro badly and have too much minerals, because they are bad against immortals and zealots; I don't make extra queens either, or roaches for the same reason. Just put pressure with your speedlings while he is moving out, to delay the push and force some forcefields, and engage in a open space... I met some expand variation with this build. So when you killed the push, do not counter, rather drone a lot, and transition to spire (good vs robo) while being careful about some extra cheese like DTs.
Doing this, at my low master level, is kind of free win...
when i see (like lubber said) mass lings i switch to 5 gate instead of 3 gate pumping only zealots.it becomes more easy to win vs mass lings.
sadly zergs finally know how to counter this now TT, however on xelnaga map it still works very well if u manage to snipe a couple of ovies and get good force fields
I am loving this build alot and I feel it is the best PvZ allin there is, however in its current form it is ironically vulnerable to a 7rr from zerg due to the fast tech to robo. I wanted to request that someone uploads a replay of how to get up the robo as fast as possible while being safe from the 7rr, I know that alot of ppl will say just get sentries etc, but when I try it I dont have enough sentries to hold the ramp and my immortal is too late (they snipe my buildings at ramp with ovie vision). Could someone please help me with a BO as I am terrible with that type of thing.
Note: (I normally get a Wp from the robo first to scout)
On January 26 2012 02:18 Host- wrote: this build is so frustrating to play against..I can smell it a mile away, have a larger army, 6+ spines, and still lose.
I have been doing alot of testing with a friend and mass ling +1 and spinecrawler rape this pretty hard (with slow tech to hydra)
EPT
