EPTAnd your post was after the last edit of the OP anyway.
[H] Mid-masters, completely stuck ZvP cannot win. - Page 3
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zatic
Zurich15310 Posts
And your post was after the last edit of the OP anyway. | ||
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zazzn
Canada54 Posts
Here's where you go wrong. You send 3 drones to chase his probe, leave 2 drones out 1 to chase probe one to attack pilon all the time while they should be mineing. You make a extractor and a evo chamber super early hurting econ again. Why do you need gas? What will ling speed give you nothing at this piont since it's only going to be zealots heading your way since he forged first and you saw that with the OL. Also you where about 10 harvesters behind at the 6-7 min mark which is really really bad, yous hould be at least even or 5-10 ahead. In short you lost the game right from the start... Recommendations Ignore the probe at the start, send your 2nd OL to the exp to watch for any funny business. Most protoss will not throw a pilon down unless the probe is being harassed... If you want to 15 FE just take your 3rd, however, I recommend against that since you can easily be cannoned there too. Open 11 pool (destiny style) done to 15, 1 set of lings and a queen, expand at 18. 14 gas/13 pool, drone to 15, queen / ling. However, when you get to about 15 drones, you can peel off 2 drones, and try to attack the probe microing 1 drone so that it's always in front of the probe so it can never place a pilon. If you are able to kill the drone this way, then you don't even need the set of lings yet. Now you have 2 big options to murder protoss 3 spine ol/cree OL because you started early gas, and you can use the first 100 for speed, next 100 for lair and the rest for roaches with the lings/spines. If you want a macro game, you pull the drones off the gas if you know you are going to be able to kill the probe and just leave 1 on there to mine to 100 gas. At 25/28 supply you should have enough to make a 3rd. immediately after placing the 3rd I make a roach warren, and keep droning... At this time I get back on gas, and when the warren pops I make 4 roaches to protect my 3rd from zealot harass. After that's delt with you keep droning. Tipically if they do the zealot harass I will keep droning to about 56 drones. Somewhere after the zealots I put a evo chamer, get a lair get +1 ranged and take all my gases. I also send in a lord to see if they have all 4 gases. If so, it makes my move to Hydra even faster, and before making anymore roaches or lings I'm making hydras off 6 gas while getting range upgrade. If it's air agression you flat out win and he cannot harass you at this point becuase of the hydra, so I feel safe to start a 4th while making more army. YOu should also be getting drop tech around the time you have 6-8 hydra's because they are going to be useless in about 3-5 min when COLS start to pop. at that time I start adding alot of roaches to the army and getting ready to drop and multi prong... I'll load up alot of units head to the main head and a small group to the natural.... The re-enforcements should be rallied to his 3rd that probably just started or just finished. Back at home you need to be getting an infestation pit and another evo. You should also consider a 5th if you have money because when he counters your attack you will most likely not be able to hold one base, that you need mineing. You'll have a huge eco lead now and will have prevented the 3rd which is the most important. Now it's just you needing to transisiion to roach corruptor/ling/ once you kill the cols re-add the hydras and morph into broodlords and GG no re. Sounds a lot easier than it is to pull off... But having that early lair and roach warren allows you to stop air/dt/and a host of other things and doesn't put you behind because you will have tech to be the agressor not the one sitting back and taking the thrashing form a death ball. Game 2 Again you make too many lings, you supply block yourself at 26 which is really bad early game and ling speed is going to do absolutely nothihng for you when he blocks. With his weak ass wall which wasn't blocked and only had 1 cannon, you could have bane busted the hell out of him or used that spine creep trick. Your ol spoted the robo bay and the gates meaning no air. It's near the 10 min mark and he has almost no units... Clearly it's tech going on at this point you need to know what is going on... Delaying that lair this long cost you because you can't make overseers or speed lords. You finally have a bigger econ, but you have ZERO creep spread. Why don't you ever replace the OL's that die at his base? You can easily hot key them to take the long way to his base so they are ready to go in after the first few die. 10 min mark he hasn't expanded he hasn't pushed you have no idea what is going on and you need intel VERY VERY BAD.... When he moves out you run your whole army home, which is really bad because you don't even have a fighting retreat nor do you pressure his front door. This is the point that you need to stall... He want's to attack but you cannot let him because you don't have a big enough army... However, if he splits his army it's to small to fight yours effectively hence he has to ball. If you had drop tech you could drop his main while he was attacking piligaging his tech bulidings bulidings. In this specific game you could have pressured his front door becuase you had some units and it wasn't really defended. My rule of thumb is if I have 3 bases I need 4 hatches. You also always should consider haveing an extra for a base you expect to die if attacked... Your production was just reduced by a 1/3 losing your 3rd base. After killing his cols, you have no route to counter because of the sentries and wall. Your corruptors are useless now as well since there are no cols, and you are not going to hive still. After that you keep making roach ling, while he transitions to immortal stalker/sentries... You know that's a much stronger combo than what you have.... Again HYDRA's are amazing again here, they will eat though the stalkers, rape the sentries and immortals..... The roaches are just fodder for them. Summary of why you lose -Poor scouting -Poor tech choices -Poor decision making I'm going to go ahead and assume the other 2 replays are the same. Pm me if you want to chat some more. Lates. | ||
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Deleted User 81929
243 Posts
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holydevil
United States145 Posts
It's a 9 ov, 14 ext, 14 pool, 15 ov + Q + 2 lings, 20 hatch, 22 2nd queen, drone to 26-29 and drop roach at 5:00. Drone up to 34 and make ov's to 68 while makeing roaches (5-9?) and lings behind it. When you attack you want to go lair and get a third. | ||
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Makura
United States317 Posts
You mentioned protoss having so many options but if I have found when I'm playing a macro game, cutting some "macro" for additional safety is really nice. blind early evo chamber allows for fast +1 melee (im a fan of ling based play but i suppose you could do range instead) and allows reaction spores (or in my case) 2 blind spores. If dts or air dont come, you are limiting where observers can see so hide your tech a lil better (just a little). I almost always get a macro hatch prior to taking a 3rd because it ensures safety from 2 base all ins from sear production and often, the toss will blindly send (usually on shakuras) 6-8 zealots to your 3rd which you can deny vision of until then with speedlings over roach play and then get that free pick off while keeping ur 2 base REALLY sateratured and then have urself a nice transfer when you take a 3rd or if your comfortable double expanding. in addition, zerg has a lot of "all ins" that can be done and are really fun to do usually cause they involve nydus play. I often like to go 14/14 and at 15 speed, 6 lings and queen. You'd be amazed how many times you can get run bys simply cause the toss expects ~2 lings and be a HUGE annoyance plus allows you to work on your multi tasking early. If you kill enough a roach all in can follow (yes it will be delayed cause its reactionary but it works so well if they spend an enterity trying to clean out 4-5 (usually 1-2 die from running by the cannon) lings. Another thing is if ur behind from early play, dont be afraid to all in (speedling fast nydus all in is super effective into hydras if they play super turtly at their natural after losing their main). Failing to get the nydus down once doesnt ensure loss either if you keep at it from multiple points (perhaps try distrcting with an overseer). GL | ||
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RaKooNs
United Kingdom397 Posts
On November 22 2011 22:55 Xana wrote: I find the keyword is agression, in one way or the other. The first agressive move I do on most maps, is to plant my hatchery on their expansion if they try to FFE. This delays their FFE by more than a minute if you do it properly, and easily pays back the 75-150 minerals you lose cancelling said hatch. It more often than not also forces an extra cannon, if he doesn't want to wait for his first Zealot to stop you from keeping up the rebuilding of the hatch everytime it nears completion. This alone delays a 6-7gate with up to a minute. It delays 2sg openers even longer. If I fail on getting the hatch down at his natural, my agressive move is getting early ling upgrades. 1/1 lings deal extremely well with massive gateway pushes, if you engage it early enough. My 2c This is a really dumb suggestion on a map such as shakuras, im a protoss player and i know that that ramp is impenetrable. I'm not sure what the answer to you're query is but it is certainly not agression. | ||
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