EPT[G] How to micro vs early pools in ZvZ - Page 2
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BinxyBrown
United States230 Posts
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Flexx
United States87 Posts
My question is: Do you find it necessary to tailor your response depending on the different variations of early pool all ins? For example, a "standard" 6 pool, vs a 6 pool + spine, vs a 6 pool + spine + all drones. I personally believe there are different ways and methods to handle each, and would love to hear your perspective on it. | ||
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Kornholi0
Canada634 Posts
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BinxyBrown
United States230 Posts
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doner0
United States233 Posts
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Nickemwit
United States253 Posts
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Tobberoth
Sweden6375 Posts
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Roynalf
Finland886 Posts
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JEEPFiretruck
Australia106 Posts
On November 25 2011 22:49 ShrieK wrote: If they come lay two spines, doesn't this throw a wrench in your whole strat? In that case, it seems like you're the one on a timer This is the only type of early pool i have trouble with with my 14g 14p open.. i have no idea how to beat it cause the lings can just camp the spines.. if i pull drones to attack i cant get a good surround :S | ||
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ETisME
12343 Posts
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Highwayman
United States181 Posts
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ElPeque.fogata
Uruguay462 Posts
He timed the spine so the lings will be there to fight your drones. If you attack there you will lose drones to the lings and mining time. And he will cancel and rebuild if you are close to killing it. Instead build your own spine crawler and queen (or two spines) so that he cant move the spine in range of your mineral line. Try not to lose any drones, and make lings constantly. You will just want to attack when your hatch is low on health. Your spine will not be too late compared to his, cause he has to wait auntil his lings reach your base to start it, which is just seconds away from your own pool. After your own spine or two are done, he can only cause damage with his spine to your hatch, cause his lings would have to enter your spine's range to attack anything. When you got enough stuff and your hatch is getting low on health, unroot your spines, send the queen to attack to draw spine fire, send your own spines to root in range of his, and then all your lings and drones to attack and mineral walk back hurt drones. Trick: I always 10 drone scout, so i have a drone at their base to make my own spine hidden in the fog of war to move in range of his mineral line whenever i have the spare minerals. Cheezers don't expect to be cheezed back  | ||
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jumai
Canada115 Posts
The technique revolves around the targetting priority ai. Basically, the default targetting behaviour is to preferentially attack "hostile" units before "passive" units.* Workers do not automatically attack enemy units, so they count as "passive" units unless they're on an attack command. I'm talking about the same priorities that can cause a ling runby to ignore the mineral line in favor of fighting the defending units. When you're fighting with your workers, you can exploit this behaviour to your benefit. Since workers don't automatically attack enemies, any command overriding the active attack command of a fighting worker also instantly ends their "hostile" status, causing them to drop in targetting priority. If there were enemy units attacking that worker, that will cause them to switch targets in favour of attacking an eligible "hostile" unit (unless your opponent is manually targetting). However, once the enemy units switch to a "hostile" target, your worker reverting to hostile status only puts it at equal priority with the (new) current target, and that by itself won't cause the enemy units to switch back. (it can in combination with other factors, ie new target out of range) So to putting itt to use: when one of your workers is taking damage, you can select it and press H to instantly shift its attackers off to a different target, then a-click immediately to resume attacking. This is much faster, more dps-efficient, and less prone to pathing issues than trying to pull them back normally. It's also not a position- or direction-sensitive command sequence, so you can select the workers taking damage out of the group selection window instead of mineral stacking and then trying to see what's going on under all the health bars. Credit for the technique goes to the author of the 6pool guide. Learned it there, incorporated it, it's really good. | ||
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justnny
United States171 Posts
On November 07 2011 06:39 Kornholi0 wrote: What do you do when they build a creative spine placement (like in between your mineral gland and spawning pool in the back? And they just camp around it with the lings soaking up damage until the spine finishes, if that spine finishes even a queen with lings can't kill it in that position. Especially with lings being well microed and somewhat reinforced or drone up? (especially if they do an economic 7pool spine build). This is what has been killing me. I can defend just an early pool with 14g/14p. An early pool gets ugly when he adds a spine dropped as his lings arrive. His lings are there to defend his spine and if I drone attack the spine, the lings kill them. If I wait, his spine murders my drones or lings. The multi-tasking demands are on the defender in this case, not the aggressor. | ||
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Baseic
Netherlands310 Posts
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ChanmanV
United States1156 Posts
So what do you do? There are 2 things you can do: - Build as many lings as you can before the spawn pool dies, and then run to his base with everything and go base trade scenario - Or you build 2 spines yourself and hope you can draw some shots. In this scenario you actually want to leave like 2 drones mining and take the rest to pressure the lings back behind the spines. Kinda like you do against an early 2 rax bunker pressure. You want to push them away from the spines so that once your lings hatch they can take out at least one of the spines. Since you'll have limited lings and are fighting with your drones you won't have many so all of this has to be microed super well. This is where the aforementioned drone Hold position micro is super important. It your opponent executes it well, it is pretty tough to hold but it's possible and sometimes it even continues on to a normal game believe it or not. | ||
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Erasme
Bahamas15899 Posts
On November 26 2011 06:22 Baseic wrote: So is the consensus that the best counter to a double spine 7 pool is just to do a full counter attack and base trade? This is actually one of the best answer :D Or you could just scout at 9. If you see <10pool, you throw a pool asap and stay in his base with your drone while looking for a spine in your creep. The usual followup for the opponent is to rampblock with double queens and get roach. You can start gas as soon as your first ling hatch. Expo at 21, baneling nest around 25. Then you can cancel his expansion (if he try to get one) or make spines/blings if you sense something fishy. | ||
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Baseic
Netherlands310 Posts
On November 26 2011 07:09 Erasme wrote: This is actually one of the best answer :D Or you could just scout at 9. If you see <10pool, you throw a pool asap and stay in his base with your drone while looking for a spine in your creep. The usual followup for the opponent is to rampblock with double queens and get roach. You can start gas as soon as your first ling hatch. Expo at 21, baneling nest around 25. Then you can cancel his expansion (if he try to get one) or make spines/blings if you sense something fishy. I think 9 scout costs too much vs 14/14. If you scout early, you can go 15 hatch of course, but if you scout last position, you will be a bit behind I think, or you still have to take the guess and go hatch first. | ||
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JEEPFiretruck
Australia106 Posts
On November 26 2011 06:32 ChanmanV wrote: Agreed that the single or double spine follow up to this is the toughest version of the 6-7 pool. The good players will not throw up the spine until their lings are running up the ramp. At that point, they'll build the spines in range of your spawn pool (not mineral line or hatch). The reason for this is it creates a faster timer since the pool doesn't have that many hit points. So what do you do? There are 2 things you can do: - Build as many lings as you can before the spawn pool dies, and then run to his base with everything and go base trade scenario - Or you build 2 spines yourself and hope you can draw some shots. In this scenario you actually want to leave like 2 drones mining and take the rest to pressure the lings back behind the spines. Kinda like you do against an early 2 rax bunker pressure. You want to push them away from the spines so that once your lings hatch they can take out at least one of the spines. Since you'll have limited lings and are fighting with your drones you won't have many so all of this has to be microed super well. This is where the aforementioned drone Hold position micro is super important. It your opponent executes it well, it is pretty tough to hold but it's possible and sometimes it even continues on to a normal game believe it or not. never considered base race.. it should be doable though since you bring your drones you can throw down extractors at his ex-base and protect it... winning strategy?? | ||
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Baseic
Netherlands310 Posts
On November 26 2011 08:59 JEEPFiretruck wrote: never considered base race.. it should be doable though since you bring your drones you can throw down extractors at his ex-base and protect it... winning strategy?? Should work, wait for his crawlers to finish, just keep mining and make lings, gather all forces and move to his base, he can't engage, and he will have to uproot his crawlers, you can then kill him. | ||
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