EPT[G] TvZ Turrets - The best muta deterrence - Page 2
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Thezzy
Netherlands2117 Posts
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shaippen
Sweden88 Posts
It's a much smaller investment up front than mass turrets as well. or you could maybe double your turret count as you move out or something. | ||
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Savant
United States379 Posts
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Logick
Singapore46 Posts
On October 19 2011 23:53 ElvisTek wrote: And it is not a good idea to add a bunker in the mineral line with marines besides turrets? .. maybe? nope, not only do bunkers tank up a lot more space, as mentioned, marines in bunkers only have 6 range compared to the +8 of upgraded turrets | ||
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thoradycus
Malaysia3262 Posts
On October 19 2011 23:53 ElvisTek wrote: And it is not a good idea to add a bunker in the mineral line with marines besides turrets? .. maybe? where are you going to build it? definitely not in the middle of the mienral line,and there is not much space behind it. | ||
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MrBitter
United States2940 Posts
Adding extra turrets is very smart. Look at how Zerg play has evolved. 6 months ago: "I don't want to build tons of spines because I need those drones to mine and that money for late game units" Now: "Fuck getting attacked, I'm going to make 80 spines, and 80 extra drones because I can" Dump those minerals. Make those turrets. As a Zerg player, nothing pisses me off more than going muta and seeing a ton of turrets in the T's base. I'm always like "fucking noob", but deep down I'm sad because I know he's defending very well. | ||
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Logick
Singapore46 Posts
but because some people have pointed them out i can make the ammendments so thank you for your constructive criticisms and keep it coming  | ||
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Fus
Sweden1112 Posts
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ILoveCoffee
Malaysia164 Posts
Mobility is not an issue for a roaching Zerg against mech Terran since speed roaches are faster than everything except BFH, which don't do anything against roaches. If Terran goes marine tank, that many turrets means you will be very marine light and the more vulnerable your tanks are to being picked off and Zerg just rolls in with lots of lings/banelings are kills you. Lastly, if I make 8-10 mutas, force you to make about 10 turrets, my mutas have done their job, delay your push and give me map control. | ||
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Logick
Singapore46 Posts
On October 20 2011 00:09 ILoveCoffee wrote: I noticed that in all your screenshots, you were going mech. Mech is pretty much the only time you will ever need a turret wall because of how immobile your army is and turrets are a mineral dump. However, against a meching Terran, Zergs might tend to favor more roaches and less mutas because of how cost effective your army is and they need something other than just lings to handle mech. Mobility is not an issue for a roaching Zerg against mech Terran since speed roaches are faster than everything except BFH, which don't do anything against roaches. If Terran goes marine tank, that many turrets means you will be very marine light and the more vulnerable your tanks are to being picked off and Zerg just rolls in with lots of lings/banelings are kills you. Lastly, if I make 8-10 mutas, force you to make about 10 turrets, my mutas have done their job, delay your push and give me map control. Hey I've played against you before im pretty sure you were using the muta portrait too!anyway allow me to point out again since you seem to have overlooked it, as ive stated maybe 3-4 times already, you do not want to make more than 2 turrets for the number of mutas you've stated and yes i do tend to favor mech more than marine tank but thats for another topic as I've also stated, this kind of defense tends to work very well with mech, but it doesnt mean its useless when you marine tank and of course if you go marine tank you are most likely trying to hit a timing which in this case, you should never make this amount of turrets On October 20 2011 00:07 MrBitter wrote: Turrets are awesome. Adding extra turrets is very smart. Look at how Zerg play has evolved. 6 months ago: "I don't want to build tons of spines because I need those drones to mine and that money for late game units" Now: "Fuck getting attacked, I'm going to make 80 spines, and 80 extra drones because I can" Dump those minerals. Make those turrets. As a Zerg player, nothing pisses me off more than going muta and seeing a ton of turrets in the T's base. I'm always like "fucking noob", but deep down I'm sad because I know he's defending very well. ah man i know exactly what you mean P.S. i feel exactly the same way when i go to a zerg expo with BFH and see 5 spines -__- | ||
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Antisocialmunky
United States5913 Posts
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MrBitter
United States2940 Posts
On October 20 2011 00:19 Antisocialmunky wrote: Does floating buildings over turrets make it so you can't target fire the turrets? With a 3D engine like SC2s, it's virtually impossible to fully cover something like a turret, because every time the screen moves you see what's below you from a new angle. | ||
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NTTemplar
609 Posts
Terrans make it out to be a "auto loss to build more than 2 turrets to protect something U KNOW DAT RIGHT!?!", while in fact making many more turrets will SAVE them money, not lose them money. As was mentioned MVP have proven to be very good at this, and that is for the fact I can't believe even tons of pro terrans seem to have missed... BW styling it. Look at pro games from BW, they make 4 turrets in a row to fend off 12 mutas there without hesitating, yes they are different games blabla, but obviously the 2 turrets in the mineral line and 1 at production facilities DOESN'T work out as can be seen in so so many pro ZvT games. MVP got his BW experiance and know you just gotta have more turrets. If T's start to get 4 turrets at mineral line and 4 on every production cluster they will likely take NO damage from muta. Let us recap that.. spending 200*mining bases + 200*production cluster you don't have to worry about mutas anymore bluntly put. On 3 base that is probably an extra 1000 mineral invest, which yes is quite a few minerals, but if the other guy got 20 mutas that he will do NO damage with harrash wise, and stops any attempt at counter attacking then it should be obvious it is bloody worth it. as mentioned, key is of course to add on turrets as muta count rise, don't get 4x turrets on mineral lines and production cluster when your on 2base and he only got 10 mutas. | ||
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Logick
Singapore46 Posts
On October 20 2011 00:19 Antisocialmunky wrote: Does floating buildings over turrets make it so you can't target fire the turrets? man you seem to come up with some of the whackiest ideas they're whacky but also extremely intriguing to me, i will definitely try this out and update the guide accordingly keep it coming! On October 20 2011 00:22 MrBitter wrote: With a 3D engine like SC2s, it's virtually impossible to fully cover something like a turret, because every time the screen moves you see what's below you from a new angle. you're right, but then again if the person can't see the turrets to target them at first, he might have to adjust his camera (if he even thinks about it) and if he does adjust his camera angles, thats more fire taken by the mutas | ||
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shadymmj
1906 Posts
The main deterrence to mutas are marines. Specifically, upgraded marines. Turrets are there only to hold the first flock down for a while, any good player will realise they need marines to compete. Turrets should be a damage soak in the sense that they will force the mutas to take them out before engaging anything else. But common sense will tell you that if your enemy is going muta heavy it will not be long before marines and a thor far outstrip turrets in effectiveness even if you leave them in your base. Actually the only good time to add excess turrets is just before you push out to limit damage to your base before he is forced to withdraw the mutas. | ||
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xTrim
472 Posts
On October 20 2011 00:07 MrBitter wrote: Turrets are awesome. Adding extra turrets is very smart. Look at how Zerg play has evolved. 6 months ago: "I don't want to build tons of spines because I need those drones to mine and that money for late game units" Now: "Fuck getting attacked, I'm going to make 80 spines, and 80 extra drones because I can" Dump those minerals. Make those turrets. As a Zerg player, nothing pisses me off more than going muta and seeing a ton of turrets in the T's base. I'm always like "fucking noob", but deep down I'm sad because I know he's defending very well. indeed | ||
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Logick
Singapore46 Posts
On October 19 2011 23:57 Savant wrote: I'm wondering if turrets in the mineral line that can be insta mass repair can hold mutas off well enough at least in early midgame. basically just enough defense so that when my timing push hits and mutas arrive in my main they don't decimate my eco and turn my push into an all in. if you have to come down to mass repairing you turret, its not that you're doing it wrong, but you're not exactly doing it right either also mass turret repair actually leads to quite a few SCVs being killed | ||
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Antisocialmunky
United States5913 Posts
On October 20 2011 00:30 Logick wrote: if you have to come down to mass repairing you turret, its not that you're doing it wrong, but you're not exactly doing it right either also mass turret repair actually leads to quite a few SCVs being killed It depends if you went for 3/3 on your marines. | ||
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ILoveCoffee
Malaysia164 Posts
On October 20 2011 00:17 Logick wrote: Hey I've played against you before im pretty sure you were using the muta portrait too!anyway allow me to point out again since you seem to have overlooked it, as ive stated maybe 3-4 times already, you do not want to make more than 2 turrets for the number of mutas you've stated and yes i do tend to favor mech more than marine tank but thats for another topic as I've also stated, this kind of defense tends to work very well with mech, but it doesnt mean its useless when you marine tank and of course if you go marine tank you are most likely trying to hit a timing which in this case, you should never make this amount of turrets ah man i know exactly what you mean P.S. i feel exactly the same way when i go to a zerg expo with BFH and see 5 spines -__- I think I've played you too, I use a queen pix btw. I am by no means saying this is a bad defence. In fact it is quite good at detering small to medium clumps of mutas. However, i re-read the OP and took another look at your turret placements. If they are all in a line. What will deter a Zerg from picking off 2 turrets, making a gap and fly in and out through it. Since your turrets are all in a line and your base is quite barren of defences. | ||
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Antisocialmunky
United States5913 Posts
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