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On October 20 2011 11:41 kofman wrote:
In your guide, I see you are getting +1 range before your infantry upgrades... As much as you seem to love turrets, I think thats a little overkill...
Sorry, but this guide is pretty useless. Every terran knows that you need turrets against mutas, and I think everyone knew that as the muta clump gets bigger, you need more turrets...
but people don't know that, and that's why the guide is valid.
How many times you have you seen masters and above Terran players have only a single turret in the middle of their mineral line? happens all the time.
and if the guide was so useless, you wouldn't even be responding to this. so obviously there is value but you are trying to downrank it, while injecting little to no value of your own.
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On October 21 2011 02:53 zmansman17 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2011 02:22 Hider wrote:On October 21 2011 00:45 Logick wrote:On October 21 2011 00:19 Hider wrote:On October 21 2011 00:11 quantumslip wrote:
some people are missing big points in this thread
1) you don't build it all at once
2) scout before building
3) some people have the mentality that static D = bad (like for Protoss, OMG you built a cannon now you don't have 150 minerals for a zealot and a probe now), when in reality wise static D = good (seems like he's going air, I'll build turrets so my army can be more mobile)
How do you scout whether the zerg will have 15 mutas or 30 mutas in 30 seconds? You cant, and hence you need (according to how i understand op) to build up enough turrets to defend vs worst possible scenario (which is 30 mutas). Since there must be no weak angle, you need to make an insane amount of turrets, and hence you will never be able to produce enough mariens to attack. you determine the muta number by what his current army composition is if hes going muta-ling-bane then he will be pretty muta heavy if you see heavy roach, or ling infestor, or roach ling, etc, you will probably deal with light muta harass its the understanding of what unit composition your opponent is going for that determines your reaction.. these are really basic things I guess you just didnt get any of the points i was trying to bring across note that I say that the turrets should deter the mutas and even in a heavy clump of 25 mutas, if your opponent bothers to take out all 4 turrets, reinforcements would have arrived already to deal with them or while trying to take out the turrets to do more dmg to your base, you could move out for a timing you and other people seem to have the misconception that I'm saying "you have to make an insane amount of turrets to completely defend yourself against mutas" when in reality my point is, a few extra turrets will act as a good deterrence against small to medium size clumps, while against ridiculously big clumps it will buy you time and options to do counter attacks or defend your base Well you assume that you know your opponents exact unit composition through all the game, and this is just a wrong assumption, because of the larva-mechanicms. Anyway, OK as I understand you, you only want to "overbuild" turrets in early mid game (so no gradual increases?). But then the same problem arises. How do you attack if your opponent has 25 +2 mutas? Here the difference between 4 and 2 turrets is only like 0.5 seconds before those 2 extra turrets are dead. And then your main is vulnerabe. Why not (according to your logic) build gradually more turrets according to expected worst amount of mutas that the zerg can attack you with in 30 seconds? As I see it there is barely any difference between having 2 turrets when opp has 10-15 mutas, and 4 turrets when opp has 25 mutas. Yeah I agree, with larva mechanics you can't take for granted WHAT the zerg army might be, no matter what you see on the field. This thread is silly to me, as I expressed in a previous post. Granted this thread may not be for me and may be for lower players who are not able to divide their army and appropriate it effectively. When you say that Bomber builds tons of turrets, he does but only AFTER he sees a ton of muta and ONLY in the late game. This thread makes the presumption that many turrets must be thrown down BEFORE you even know how many mutalisks he has, which is silly. If a zerg spots a bunch of turrets via a scouting overlord, they may skip the muta tech altogether and just expand and macro harder. And they could do that because 1,000 minerals went into turrets (5 on each mineral line as you say, not including those on the exterior of your base), when that $$$ could have gone into an expand, upgrades, better tech. For these reasons, this makes no sense.... and indeed, it may cost you the game.
And silly things like burrowed Infestors or tunnel claw roaches can cost you the game too. There is virtually no downside to having at least 1-2 turrets in your base at the 10 minute mark.
1) if he doesn't make any turrets or not enough turrets, in come the mutas and bye bye all your workers.
2) You make turrets, zerg spots them, and completely changes his mind "ok fine, then i won't make any mutas" well...then that solved the problem too - because you won't worry about harass the same way anymore, right?
If I spend 300-500 minerals just to guarantee me that I won't face any muta harass, well that's the choice I like better than the alternatives.
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On October 20 2011 09:09 KawaiiRice wrote:this is a really big question, but even if you were masters it doesn't matter @ OP you can't get away with spending so much money on useless turrets like this vs good zergs. Money that you spend on turrets + the range upgrade slows down everything youre doing. It's apparent that you're winning games enough to feel comfortable enough to make a guide on TL. Maybe this will help players increase their winrate vs zergs as well, I don't know. But doing unrefined things like this will screw you over against a good player. edit: my posting seems to always be terribly incoherent and goes around everywhere.. why did i even quote abstrakt lol
I totally get what you're saying. This is probably the reason why all those GSL champs start off with very minimal turrets.
The reality is for those of us who are not GSL champs and will never even get close to masters. We don't have the ability to fend of a wily muta harasser without a crutch(which is this case are turrets). We pull our SCV's, run our marines back, and guess what? mutas are gone. We leave, BAM they came right back(they were just hiding in the corner). Then we go on tilt and you know the rest.
The pros don't need these crutches so they can get away with so much more - compared to the average joe. If we over make turrets, people like IdrA will tell us how stupid, terrible, or how unfortunate we are as a player...well...most of us will never face IdrA, or anyone near his caliber. Hence these crutches.
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On October 21 2011 02:22 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2011 00:45 Logick wrote:On October 21 2011 00:19 Hider wrote:On October 21 2011 00:11 quantumslip wrote:
some people are missing big points in this thread
1) you don't build it all at once
2) scout before building
3) some people have the mentality that static D = bad (like for Protoss, OMG you built a cannon now you don't have 150 minerals for a zealot and a probe now), when in reality wise static D = good (seems like he's going air, I'll build turrets so my army can be more mobile)
How do you scout whether the zerg will have 15 mutas or 30 mutas in 30 seconds? You cant, and hence you need (according to how i understand op) to build up enough turrets to defend vs worst possible scenario (which is 30 mutas). Since there must be no weak angle, you need to make an insane amount of turrets, and hence you will never be able to produce enough mariens to attack. you determine the muta number by what his current army composition is if hes going muta-ling-bane then he will be pretty muta heavy if you see heavy roach, or ling infestor, or roach ling, etc, you will probably deal with light muta harass its the understanding of what unit composition your opponent is going for that determines your reaction.. these are really basic things I guess you just didnt get any of the points i was trying to bring across note that I say that the turrets should deter the mutas and even in a heavy clump of 25 mutas, if your opponent bothers to take out all 4 turrets, reinforcements would have arrived already to deal with them or while trying to take out the turrets to do more dmg to your base, you could move out for a timing you and other people seem to have the misconception that I'm saying "you have to make an insane amount of turrets to completely defend yourself against mutas" when in reality my point is, a few extra turrets will act as a good deterrence against small to medium size clumps, while against ridiculously big clumps it will buy you time and options to do counter attacks or defend your base Well you assume that you know your opponents exact unit composition through all the game, and this is just a wrong assumption, because of the larva-mechanicms. Anyway, OK as I understand you, you only want to "overbuild" turrets in early mid game (so no gradual increases?).But then the same problem arises. How do you attack if your opponent has 25 +2 mutas? Here the difference between 4 and 2 turrets is only like 0.5 seconds before those 2 extra turrets are dead. And then your main is vulnerabe. Why not (according to your logic) build gradually more turrets if you fear the zerg will have more than 15 mutas? As I see it there is barely any difference between having 2 turrets when opp has 10-15 mutas, and 4 turrets when opp has 25 mutas.
wow dude how you arrived at the conclusion that the key is to overbuild? I'm sorry to have to say this but is your reading comprehension that terrible that you cant even get the points across?
its stated SO MANY times thats you want to scout the composition before you decide on how many turrets you want to make, and that you WILL gradually increase turrets to match the muta count
also a lot of people seem to have a one track mind that TvZ = marine tanks only
@zmansman
yes many pros do leave a thor at the mineral line but also many people tend to overvalue the use of a thor because they forget about the magic box - even if you mass repair youre gonna lose SCVs and eventually the thor while maybe killing only 1-3 mutas (depending on the muta ball)
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On October 21 2011 05:31 D_K_night wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2011 02:53 zmansman17 wrote:On October 21 2011 02:22 Hider wrote:On October 21 2011 00:45 Logick wrote:On October 21 2011 00:19 Hider wrote:On October 21 2011 00:11 quantumslip wrote:
some people are missing big points in this thread
1) you don't build it all at once
2) scout before building
3) some people have the mentality that static D = bad (like for Protoss, OMG you built a cannon now you don't have 150 minerals for a zealot and a probe now), when in reality wise static D = good (seems like he's going air, I'll build turrets so my army can be more mobile)
How do you scout whether the zerg will have 15 mutas or 30 mutas in 30 seconds? You cant, and hence you need (according to how i understand op) to build up enough turrets to defend vs worst possible scenario (which is 30 mutas). Since there must be no weak angle, you need to make an insane amount of turrets, and hence you will never be able to produce enough mariens to attack. you determine the muta number by what his current army composition is if hes going muta-ling-bane then he will be pretty muta heavy if you see heavy roach, or ling infestor, or roach ling, etc, you will probably deal with light muta harass its the understanding of what unit composition your opponent is going for that determines your reaction.. these are really basic things I guess you just didnt get any of the points i was trying to bring across note that I say that the turrets should deter the mutas and even in a heavy clump of 25 mutas, if your opponent bothers to take out all 4 turrets, reinforcements would have arrived already to deal with them or while trying to take out the turrets to do more dmg to your base, you could move out for a timing you and other people seem to have the misconception that I'm saying "you have to make an insane amount of turrets to completely defend yourself against mutas" when in reality my point is, a few extra turrets will act as a good deterrence against small to medium size clumps, while against ridiculously big clumps it will buy you time and options to do counter attacks or defend your base Well you assume that you know your opponents exact unit composition through all the game, and this is just a wrong assumption, because of the larva-mechanicms. Anyway, OK as I understand you, you only want to "overbuild" turrets in early mid game (so no gradual increases?). But then the same problem arises. How do you attack if your opponent has 25 +2 mutas? Here the difference between 4 and 2 turrets is only like 0.5 seconds before those 2 extra turrets are dead. And then your main is vulnerabe. Why not (according to your logic) build gradually more turrets according to expected worst amount of mutas that the zerg can attack you with in 30 seconds? As I see it there is barely any difference between having 2 turrets when opp has 10-15 mutas, and 4 turrets when opp has 25 mutas. Yeah I agree, with larva mechanics you can't take for granted WHAT the zerg army might be, no matter what you see on the field. This thread is silly to me, as I expressed in a previous post. Granted this thread may not be for me and may be for lower players who are not able to divide their army and appropriate it effectively. When you say that Bomber builds tons of turrets, he does but only AFTER he sees a ton of muta and ONLY in the late game. This thread makes the presumption that many turrets must be thrown down BEFORE you even know how many mutalisks he has, which is silly. If a zerg spots a bunch of turrets via a scouting overlord, they may skip the muta tech altogether and just expand and macro harder. And they could do that because 1,000 minerals went into turrets (5 on each mineral line as you say, not including those on the exterior of your base), when that $$$ could have gone into an expand, upgrades, better tech. For these reasons, this makes no sense.... and indeed, it may cost you the game. And silly things like burrowed Infestors or tunnel claw roaches can cost you the game too. There is virtually no downside to having at least 1-2 turrets in your base at the 10 minute mark. 1) if he doesn't make any turrets or not enough turrets, in come the mutas and bye bye all your workers. 2) You make turrets, zerg spots them, and completely changes his mind "ok fine, then i won't make any mutas" well...then that solved the problem too - because you won't worry about harass the same way anymore, right? If I spend 300-500 minerals just to guarantee me that I won't face any muta harass, well that's the choice I like better than the alternatives.
I believe you are mis-interpreting the entire thread. The OP said 4-5 turrets in each mineral line and 4-5 turrets in each mineral line is not 1-2?? Of course any player is going to drop 1-2 turrets in their mineral line (pre-muta) and no one would disagree with you. But that's also not what I'm saying.
For the record, 1,000 minerals = 10 turrets lol. I suppose I did not specify how many that would be, just assumed you could do the math. As I described earlier, I think 10 is altogether excessive and a huge waste of resources on static defense.
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On October 21 2011 09:31 zmansman17 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2011 05:31 D_K_night wrote:On October 21 2011 02:53 zmansman17 wrote:On October 21 2011 02:22 Hider wrote:On October 21 2011 00:45 Logick wrote:On October 21 2011 00:19 Hider wrote:On October 21 2011 00:11 quantumslip wrote:
some people are missing big points in this thread
1) you don't build it all at once
2) scout before building
3) some people have the mentality that static D = bad (like for Protoss, OMG you built a cannon now you don't have 150 minerals for a zealot and a probe now), when in reality wise static D = good (seems like he's going air, I'll build turrets so my army can be more mobile)
How do you scout whether the zerg will have 15 mutas or 30 mutas in 30 seconds? You cant, and hence you need (according to how i understand op) to build up enough turrets to defend vs worst possible scenario (which is 30 mutas). Since there must be no weak angle, you need to make an insane amount of turrets, and hence you will never be able to produce enough mariens to attack. you determine the muta number by what his current army composition is if hes going muta-ling-bane then he will be pretty muta heavy if you see heavy roach, or ling infestor, or roach ling, etc, you will probably deal with light muta harass its the understanding of what unit composition your opponent is going for that determines your reaction.. these are really basic things I guess you just didnt get any of the points i was trying to bring across note that I say that the turrets should deter the mutas and even in a heavy clump of 25 mutas, if your opponent bothers to take out all 4 turrets, reinforcements would have arrived already to deal with them or while trying to take out the turrets to do more dmg to your base, you could move out for a timing you and other people seem to have the misconception that I'm saying "you have to make an insane amount of turrets to completely defend yourself against mutas" when in reality my point is, a few extra turrets will act as a good deterrence against small to medium size clumps, while against ridiculously big clumps it will buy you time and options to do counter attacks or defend your base Well you assume that you know your opponents exact unit composition through all the game, and this is just a wrong assumption, because of the larva-mechanicms. Anyway, OK as I understand you, you only want to "overbuild" turrets in early mid game (so no gradual increases?). But then the same problem arises. How do you attack if your opponent has 25 +2 mutas? Here the difference between 4 and 2 turrets is only like 0.5 seconds before those 2 extra turrets are dead. And then your main is vulnerabe. Why not (according to your logic) build gradually more turrets according to expected worst amount of mutas that the zerg can attack you with in 30 seconds? As I see it there is barely any difference between having 2 turrets when opp has 10-15 mutas, and 4 turrets when opp has 25 mutas. Yeah I agree, with larva mechanics you can't take for granted WHAT the zerg army might be, no matter what you see on the field. This thread is silly to me, as I expressed in a previous post. Granted this thread may not be for me and may be for lower players who are not able to divide their army and appropriate it effectively. When you say that Bomber builds tons of turrets, he does but only AFTER he sees a ton of muta and ONLY in the late game. This thread makes the presumption that many turrets must be thrown down BEFORE you even know how many mutalisks he has, which is silly. If a zerg spots a bunch of turrets via a scouting overlord, they may skip the muta tech altogether and just expand and macro harder. And they could do that because 1,000 minerals went into turrets (5 on each mineral line as you say, not including those on the exterior of your base), when that $$$ could have gone into an expand, upgrades, better tech. For these reasons, this makes no sense.... and indeed, it may cost you the game. And silly things like burrowed Infestors or tunnel claw roaches can cost you the game too. There is virtually no downside to having at least 1-2 turrets in your base at the 10 minute mark. 1) if he doesn't make any turrets or not enough turrets, in come the mutas and bye bye all your workers. 2) You make turrets, zerg spots them, and completely changes his mind "ok fine, then i won't make any mutas" well...then that solved the problem too - because you won't worry about harass the same way anymore, right? If I spend 300-500 minerals just to guarantee me that I won't face any muta harass, well that's the choice I like better than the alternatives. I believe you are mis-interpreting the entire thread. The OP said 4-5 turrets in each mineral line and 4-5 turrets in each mineral line is not 1-2?? Of course any player is going to drop 1-2 turrets in their mineral line (pre-muta) and no one would disagree with you. But that's also not what I'm saying. For the record, 1,000 minerals = 10 turrets lol. I suppose I did not specify how many that would be, just assumed you could do the math. As I described earlier, I think 10 is altogether excessive and a huge waste of resources on static defense.
not once have i EVER said 4-5 turrets per mineral line, did you fail reading 101 too?
did any one of my screenshots have 4-5 turrets in the mineral line? at most maybe 3?
i believe that you are unable to comprehend the discussion and hence you are misinterpreting the thread instead
I have said many times to start with 1 or 2 turrets and depending on unit comp (that you have scouted) increase numbers from there if the muta ball starts to pick up
not once have i ever said build 4-5 turrets per mineral line
neither have i ever stated to build 4 -5 turrets instantly when u scout the spire
nor have i stated to build blind turrets
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As a zerg, I'd most likely just drop 1-2 overlords of lings to clear out your turrets if you made this many and I for whatever reason wanted to stick with mutas. This is why (IMHO) a turret or two and a bunker is a more reasonable investment.
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On October 21 2011 07:20 Logick wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2011 02:22 Hider wrote:On October 21 2011 00:45 Logick wrote:On October 21 2011 00:19 Hider wrote:On October 21 2011 00:11 quantumslip wrote:
some people are missing big points in this thread
1) you don't build it all at once
2) scout before building
3) some people have the mentality that static D = bad (like for Protoss, OMG you built a cannon now you don't have 150 minerals for a zealot and a probe now), when in reality wise static D = good (seems like he's going air, I'll build turrets so my army can be more mobile)
How do you scout whether the zerg will have 15 mutas or 30 mutas in 30 seconds? You cant, and hence you need (according to how i understand op) to build up enough turrets to defend vs worst possible scenario (which is 30 mutas). Since there must be no weak angle, you need to make an insane amount of turrets, and hence you will never be able to produce enough mariens to attack. you determine the muta number by what his current army composition is if hes going muta-ling-bane then he will be pretty muta heavy if you see heavy roach, or ling infestor, or roach ling, etc, you will probably deal with light muta harass its the understanding of what unit composition your opponent is going for that determines your reaction.. these are really basic things I guess you just didnt get any of the points i was trying to bring across note that I say that the turrets should deter the mutas and even in a heavy clump of 25 mutas, if your opponent bothers to take out all 4 turrets, reinforcements would have arrived already to deal with them or while trying to take out the turrets to do more dmg to your base, you could move out for a timing you and other people seem to have the misconception that I'm saying "you have to make an insane amount of turrets to completely defend yourself against mutas" when in reality my point is, a few extra turrets will act as a good deterrence against small to medium size clumps, while against ridiculously big clumps it will buy you time and options to do counter attacks or defend your base Well you assume that you know your opponents exact unit composition through all the game, and this is just a wrong assumption, because of the larva-mechanicms. Anyway, OK as I understand you, you only want to "overbuild" turrets in early mid game (so no gradual increases?).But then the same problem arises. How do you attack if your opponent has 25 +2 mutas? Here the difference between 4 and 2 turrets is only like 0.5 seconds before those 2 extra turrets are dead. And then your main is vulnerabe. Why not (according to your logic) build gradually more turrets if you fear the zerg will have more than 15 mutas? As I see it there is barely any difference between having 2 turrets when opp has 10-15 mutas, and 4 turrets when opp has 25 mutas. wow dude how you arrived at the conclusion that the key is to overbuild? I'm sorry to have to say this but is your reading comprehension that terrible that you cant even get the points across? its stated SO MANY times thats you want to scout the composition before you decide on how many turrets you want to make, and that you WILL gradually increase turrets to match the muta count also a lot of people seem to have a one track mind that TvZ = marine tanks only @zmansman yes many pros do leave a thor at the mineral line but also many people tend to overvalue the use of a thor because they forget about the magic box - even if you mass repair youre gonna lose SCVs and eventually the thor while maybe killing only 1-3 mutas (depending on the muta ball)
You overbuild according to normal GSL terran players right?
Obv. this means that when the opponent has 25 mutas you build a shitton of turrets correct? You will prob need to have like 10 at main, 10 at natural and 10 at 3rd or so right?
"its stated SO MANY times thats you want to scout the composition before you decide on how many turrets you want to make"
At least the guy below me understood my point. I dont think you have any idea what I have been trying to say for quite a while: YOU CANT SCOUT EXACT UNIT COMPOSITION AND REACT TO IT IN TIME. ITS IMPOSSIBLE!!!
WHY???
Because you dont know if 15 mtuas or 40 lings are popping out of his larva, and this changes everything according to having the optimal amount of turrets.
This is the problem with the guide. You aren't a high level player and there are so many factors that you haven't even considered (and even when i try to adress some of whem you have no clue what I am talking about).
Producing a lot of turrets might actually be benefical if your a mid level player (plat-low master), but at higher level of play this is not optimal.
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you're not overbuilding turrets to exactly match the muta count so that you can completely negate the mutas
you're building extra turrets to prevent any possibly harass from mutas (and by extra it means another 2 to the 2 that you've already built
and if the muta ball gets big until maybe 25-30 4 turrets is still an OK number because it if he bothers to take them all out he would already have taken a lot of dmg and reinforcing troops would have arrived by then
as for scouting:
unless your opponent is blind and just decides to make 40 lings i dont see how you do not understand what i have been trying to say
unit composition:
- scout scout his unit composition by his structures
- is he getting baneling speed?
- is he getting muta upgrades
- how many lings does he have
- how many mutas does he currently have
- is there a roach warren
- is he going roaches?
all this gives u the little details about his unit composition that he might possibly going on
and coupled with some game sense (i guess you dont have much of a game sense since you automatically assume that because or larvae mechanics u automatically will not know ever know what unit composition he is trying to go for)
edit: you're not scouting his larvae to see what pops out of it but rather his current army, OBVIOUSLY if he has a maybe 10 mutas and ling bane that hes going muta-ling-bane and not muta-ling-bane + random roaches
you're not scanning his hatcheries or his larvae for information you're scanning his buildings and his army for information
P.S. I'm a mid lvl masters on SEA
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a lot of people seem to assume that this is blind. one of his main points was that it isnt blind, it would be based off of what you scout. at about 8-10 mutas, you dont really need 2482374982374 turrets. its when the ball gets really big (15-20) that you start throwing down more turrets and getting the upgrades.
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and heres how you are going to achieve it:
You're not going to build, 1 turret, not 2, but 3 and maybe even 4 turrets by your mineral line/production facilities
Logik what is this?
This is the very 4 turrets that I describe... and well, you described 
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On October 21 2011 05:12 D_K_night wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2011 11:41 kofman wrote:
In your guide, I see you are getting +1 range before your infantry upgrades... As much as you seem to love turrets, I think thats a little overkill...
Sorry, but this guide is pretty useless. Every terran knows that you need turrets against mutas, and I think everyone knew that as the muta clump gets bigger, you need more turrets... but people don't know that, and that's why the guide is valid. How many times you have you seen masters and above Terran players have only a single turret in the middle of their mineral line? happens all the time. and if the guide was so useless, you wouldn't even be responding to this. so obviously there is value but you are trying to downrank it, while injecting little to no value of your own.
People know it, its just that people forget. This guide wont help anybody remember.
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On October 21 2011 11:52 zmansman17 wrote:Show nested quote +
and heres how you are going to achieve it:
You're not going to build, 1 turret, not 2, but 3 and maybe even 4 turrets by your mineral line/production facilities
Logik what is this? This is the very 4 turrets that I describe... and well, you described
Yeah. He did say 4 turrets, but KEY WORDS "maybe even 4 turrets" MAYBE. And he even said this, "you aren't going to immediately just drop down 4 turrets just for the sake of it". Also he said, "you should scout out timing of the spire + the unit composition your enemy is going for before you decide how".
Seriously.... did anyone read this carefully because this made sense to me.
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On October 21 2011 11:52 zmansman17 wrote:Show nested quote +
and heres how you are going to achieve it:
You're not going to build, 1 turret, not 2, but 3 and maybe even 4 turrets by your mineral line/production facilities
Logik what is this? This is the very 4 turrets that I describe... and well, you described
the keyword there being bolded
there is a vast difference between maybe making 4 turrets
and
you're making 4-5 turrets at each mineral line
VAST difference
On October 21 2011 12:09 kofman wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2011 05:12 D_K_night wrote:On October 20 2011 11:41 kofman wrote:
In your guide, I see you are getting +1 range before your infantry upgrades... As much as you seem to love turrets, I think thats a little overkill...
Sorry, but this guide is pretty useless. Every terran knows that you need turrets against mutas, and I think everyone knew that as the muta clump gets bigger, you need more turrets... but people don't know that, and that's why the guide is valid. How many times you have you seen masters and above Terran players have only a single turret in the middle of their mineral line? happens all the time. and if the guide was so useless, you wouldn't even be responding to this. so obviously there is value but you are trying to downrank it, while injecting little to no value of your own. People know it, its just that people forget. This guide wont help anybody remember.
it doesnt explain the fact that people know it and yet they still build 1 turret to defend a flock of 10-15 mutas only to have to rebuild that same one maybe 3 - 4 times
by saying people just forget is a total understatement
its like saying, oh i know i have to wipe my butt after i take a dump but i forget
and then u "forget" the next 10 times it happens and you wonder why you got stains on your diapers
its not that people are forgetting they just dont do it
and then some whine "OH mutas are SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO annoying and totally OP"
edit: ah the guy above me already did the whole "maybe" thing oh well
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If you were to go for a fast 3 OC build or something you would turtle up while going for your 2/1 timing push while taking a 4th. For a build like this you would make a lot of turrets before your push because they would have a big muta flock by then. Until this time you use marines and your first few to defend.
After that push you will start banking and thats when u can make more bases +macro OC's + more turrets if required.
If you're going for 2 base timing push into 3rd with constant army trading, such as 2 fac bf into 2 fac tank, the zerg has to fall back with mutas to defend your push so turrets are less important.
So many words to say nothing at all...
All this thread is saying is make turrets when u see more mutas which is stupid as fuck -.-
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On October 21 2011 13:03 justjuice wrote:
So many words to say nothing at all...
All this thread is saying is make turrets when u see more mutas which is stupid as fuck -.-
This is exactly what I'm saying. Be prepared to receive hate from the OP.
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On October 21 2011 12:23 moonizzle wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2011 11:52 zmansman17 wrote:
and heres how you are going to achieve it:
You're not going to build, 1 turret, not 2, but 3 and maybe even 4 turrets by your mineral line/production facilities
Logik what is this? This is the very 4 turrets that I describe... and well, you described Yeah. He did say 4 turrets, but KEY WORDS "maybe even 4 turrets" MAYBE. And he even said this, "you aren't going to immediately just drop down 4 turrets just for the sake of it". Also he said, "you should scout out timing of the spire + the unit composition your enemy is going for before you decide how". Seriously.... did anyone read this carefully because this made sense to me.
hmm your first post-- are you sure Logic didnt make you to respond to this for him lol
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On October 21 2011 14:03 zmansman17 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2011 12:23 moonizzle wrote:On October 21 2011 11:52 zmansman17 wrote:
and heres how you are going to achieve it:
You're not going to build, 1 turret, not 2, but 3 and maybe even 4 turrets by your mineral line/production facilities
Logik what is this? This is the very 4 turrets that I describe... and well, you described Yeah. He did say 4 turrets, but KEY WORDS "maybe even 4 turrets" MAYBE. And he even said this, "you aren't going to immediately just drop down 4 turrets just for the sake of it". Also he said, "you should scout out timing of the spire + the unit composition your enemy is going for before you decide how". Seriously.... did anyone read this carefully because this made sense to me. hmm your first post-- are you sure Logic didnt make you to respond to this for him lol
sorry I don't as much time to waste as to make a new account and then make a post using an entirely different speech pattern to mine to convince people
maybe you might do something like that, but not me
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YOU CANT SCOUT EXACT UNIT COMPOSITION AND REACT TO IT IN TIME. ITS IMPOSSIBLE!!!
This
Ps. mid master in sea is nothing . . .
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EPT
