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iSTime
1579 Posts
25 nexus 25 pylon 26 robo 27 gateway x2 28 sentry Or robo after gateways if you want to be slightly safer, or you probe scouts a maka rax, etc. By delaying their add-on, it makes any kind of marauder pressure very weak, since they'll only have time to get 1 marauder to your base before WG research is finished, and this means your stalker can harass any marines/scvs trying to make bunkers. It also just generally messes up their build order if they're trying to go 12/16 or anything similar. | ||
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GomJabbar
United States161 Posts
On November 07 2011 03:48 Complete wrote: you can hold a 1gate expo vs 2rax, you just have to micro properly and do the correct version Could you elaborate on which is the correct version and how to specifically play it out if it is a 2-rax? | ||
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Complete
United States1864 Posts
There's another version I haven't used in a while but it was much tighter. It was something like 1 gas zealot,stalker,sentry,nexus,sentry,gate,gate. You had to cut 1-2 probes, but you ended up with like a 4:30 nexus. 2rax arrived at 5:45 with 5 marines 1 marauder. First warpin is at 6:10 with 3 gates + the 4 original you made, so you need to warpin and get down your ramp before his bunker gets up (you have like 5-10 seconds max leeway iirc). Seconds count, miss a chrono and you die to an aggressive bunker | ||
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ant885
United States52 Posts
On November 07 2011 03:59 iSTime wrote: I don't know if anyone else plays this way, but one thing I've been doing lately PvT is skipping the zealot and blocking the add-on with a pylon if they have gas early. I then do something like: 25 nexus 25 pylon 26 robo 27 gateway x2 28 sentry Or robo after gateways if you want to be slightly safer, or you probe scouts a maka rax, etc. By delaying their add-on, it makes any kind of marauder pressure very weak, since they'll only have time to get 1 marauder to your base before WG research is finished, and this means your stalker can harass any marines/scvs trying to make bunkers. It also just generally messes up their build order if they're trying to go 12/16 or anything similar. pretty cool is it possible to block the addon if they do a wall off? I'm not too familiar with the positioning | ||
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whistle
United States141 Posts
Also, I think SaSe always cancels his pylon - any thoughts on canceling vs keeping? It seems like it is easy to trick you if the pylon is canceled (fake second marine, fake reactor, etc), but 75 minerals on the other hand... | ||
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
This is an ambitious thread, I know, but I will keep it updated. Keep the thread on the topic of PvT 1 Gate Fast Expands and keep all balance whine far away! I encourage all of the Highlighted Protoss players to post and I encourage the other respected Protoss players to post as well! It'll take ambition indeed. KCDC did an incredible service for the community by maintaining it for 40+ pages of discussion, and updating it with replays many months down the line. | ||
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Fairwell
Austria195 Posts
On November 07 2011 06:45 Complete wrote: The version I've been using is 3 chrono's on probes the rest on 1 gateway w/ 1 gas zealot,stalker,stalker,stalker, nexus stalker,stalker (cant remember if it gets 5 or 6 units out, 6 i think). Delays your nexus more than you'd want but it's still quite quick and puts you in a decent economic position vs builds he takes a gas; even if he 1rax marauder fast expands. If he 2raxes you can hold as long as he doesn't pull scv's, if he does you have to pull probes to match. Make sure no bunker gets down. This sounds like one of the old kcdc versions of 1gate fe (zealot-stalker-stalker-stalker) where all cb are used on the first gate after the intial 3 on the nexus. I've used this for quite a while but stopped using it because I have troubles if they 12/16 rax me and bring 8-10scvs along. Do you have any good replays of masters+ level showing this? | ||
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Jaeger
United States1150 Posts
In these cases IMO it's better to transition into a defensive HuK 20 nexus build as it holds the 2rax reactor techlab push more easily and is better economically anyways. So in this situation the build would look like: 9 pylon * 12 gate -> scout * 14 gas * 15 pylon 17 core 18 zealot ~3:11 first marine comes out you see a 2nd rax building and a reactor with your probe before you leave cancel zealot cut probes at 20 pull 2 probes off gas send a probe to natural warpgate tech ** 20 nexus stalker resume mining gas with 3 probes 22 gate 22 gate stalker resume probes pylon @ 100% warpgate warp-in 3 stalkers * chrono nexus ** chrono warpgate tech 4 times You'll have 5 stalkers well before the 1 maruader 7 marine timing can hit your natural and a 2nd round of warp-ins before the 9 marine 2 marauder timing. | ||
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Skyro
United States1823 Posts
On November 07 2011 03:41 whereismymind wrote: Facts that kills me those days are... - If you go 1gate FE you die to 2rax(12,16). - If you don't go 1gate FE you die to 1-1-1. Only because it is impossible to see what is Terran doing. I have to do that first stalker to scout(zealot is too slow for scouting terrans ramp). What to do here? How about to roots like 1Gate Robo FE + 2gates after expo? Someone tried this versus 1-1-1? First off neither of those "facts" are actually facts. Rax/bunker nerf have slightly weakened both these pushes. Also the map plays a huge factor, such as how 1-1-1 is really strong on XNC but not nearly as strong on larger maps. There are also different versions of 1-gate FE. 1-gas 30 Nexus w/ chrono on units is perfectly save vs 12/16 rax. Be aggressive with your initial zealot stalker and probe scout as spotting this push earlier will give you more time to prepare. And there are a few 1-base builds I know of that can stop 1-1-1 but that is pretty OT. | ||
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Fairwell
Austria195 Posts
On November 14 2011 11:30 Jaeger wrote: Occasionally you'll open up with the MC 1gate 30nexus and your opponent will let you scout 2rax reactor after 1 marine with your probe. In these cases IMO it's better to transition into a defensive HuK 20 nexus build as it holds the 2rax reactor techlab push more easily and is better economically anyways. So in this situation the build would look like: 9 pylon * 12 gate -> scout * 14 gas * 15 pylon 17 core 18 zealot ~3:11 first marine comes out you see a 2nd rax building and a reactor with your probe before you leave cancel zealot cut probes at 20 pull 2 probes off gas send a probe to natural warpgate tech ** 20 nexus stalker resume mining gas with 3 probes 22 gate 22 gate stalker resume probes pylon @ 100% warpgate warp-in 3 stalkers * chrono nexus ** chrono warpgate tech 4 times You'll have 5 stalkers well before the 1 maruader 7 marine timing can hit your natural and a 2nd round of warp-ins before the 9 marine 2 marauder timing. Thanks for the useful information. I saw Sase doing this lately on his stream vs terrans and he went aggressive if his opponent was not going for a 2rax opening. This is definitely something to work with. | ||
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