Its very map dependent. Say you are playing on Xelnaga TvZ. As T i always PF the gold as my third and also play mech so the goal is to halve the map and macro up, with the obvious hellion harass.
With a few thors and turrets out your kidna safe from mutas but your immobile. So how do you protect your 4th and 5th? Well have you ever seen lings try and kill a planetary? Its hilarious. Now imagine the planetary has double the armour. Roaches take an age aswell so if the go in for a quick snipe, they will be sorely mistaken and you have time to just to kill them.
Also ive found that once you are on putting up your 5th, putting an upgraded PF on the ramp between 4th and 5th means they are unharassable.
Banelings however still do that same damage as it ignore armour so not sure what people mean by that.
I commonly get Hi-Sec AutoTracking and Building Armor. Neosteel frame I've basically only gotten once or twice, during some ill-thought-out attempts to make marines safe from hellions.
Maybe someone has experience of some delayed medivac transition for 2-port banshee or something like that. As of neosteel frame, maybe it does improve terran contains, which I don't think are so good per se (I wish there were spider mines).
Not always, but that is what I actually transition to after the 2 port against zerg (when i just don´t outright kill them). Expand, into bio with lots of medivacs. If I see many mutalisks, I find it better to place 1 bunker per expansion, then lots of turrets, cheaper and more mobile.
Medivac energy would be useful for TvP bio pushes, when you get your first few medivacs out, perhaps. Of course, this means you have a tech lab on a starport, so no reactor...
For the capacity upgrade, I think it's more significant that the CC capacity is upgraded. In TvT, there are hellions everywhere, so saving more SCVs might be worth it if you're on multiple bases. I've never really experimented, but that would seem to be the main point of it.
Neosteel is great for TvT - just push the load button to hide most of your SCVs. No blue flame death that way. The armour upgrade is only great for TvZ IMO, to stop Zerglings from busting through walls while the army is away.
On September 19 2011 20:39 FeyFey wrote: armor upgrade vs zerg = teh win if they go banelings
No, banelings ignore the building armor.
banelings dont ignore structure armor. I tested it vs rocks and the banelings got -3 because of the rocks. upgrades for the banelings also helped.
remember, banelings do 80 damage, and get +5 vs buildings per upgrade. so they can do 95 at +3.
Rocks aren't buildings; they're just immobile armored units.
from liquipedia: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Baneling Baneling damage on buildings is not mitigated by armor, so that the 1 armor that most buildings possess and the Terran Building Armor upgrade that grants +2 armor does not affect Baneling damage.
On September 19 2011 20:39 FeyFey wrote: armor upgrade vs zerg = teh win if they go banelings
No, banelings ignore the building armor.
banelings dont ignore structure armor. I tested it vs rocks and the banelings got -3 because of the rocks. upgrades for the banelings also helped.
remember, banelings do 80 damage, and get +5 vs buildings per upgrade. so they can do 95 at +3.
Rocks aren't buildings; they're just immobile armored units.
from liquipedia: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Baneling Baneling damage on buildings is not mitigated by armor, so that the 1 armor that most buildings possess and the Terran Building Armor upgrade that grants +2 armor does not affect Baneling damage.
On September 19 2011 20:39 FeyFey wrote: armor upgrade vs zerg = teh win if they go banelings
No, banelings ignore the building armor.
banelings dont ignore structure armor. I tested it vs rocks and the banelings got -3 because of the rocks. upgrades for the banelings also helped.
remember, banelings do 80 damage, and get +5 vs buildings per upgrade. so they can do 95 at +3.
Rocks aren't buildings; they're just immobile armored units.
from liquipedia: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Baneling Baneling damage on buildings is not mitigated by armor, so that the 1 armor that most buildings possess and the Terran Building Armor upgrade that grants +2 armor does not affect Baneling damage.
because liquipedia is always right?
You tested on rocks; I assume the Liquipedia editors tested on buildings, and that's what made the difference. I have always assumed Liquipedia to be correct unless specifically proven otherwise; and then I correct it and it becomes correct.
Demonstrate on something other than destructible rocks and you have a case. Otherwise, I am far more inclined to believe Liquipedia than than I am you.
Also a good point for the capacity of CC vs hellions. Enter 10, spread the rest, get your shit there. No lining up.
As for the medivac upgrade, you can't have it with your first medivac (assuming you get one right when starport is finished), but the second wave that you produce will have it (it's rather fast to research). Which might be just in time to heal your returning first push.
Old but gold game with TB using neosteel bunkers and mass ravens.
As for caduceus reactor i think the only time i have seen it used was to bluff the banshee cloak upgrade(Since caduceus reactor is a much cheaper upgrade than banshee cloak)
On September 30 2011 01:38 Sumadin wrote: As for caduceus reactor i think the only time i have seen it used was to bluff the banshee cloak upgrade(Since caduceus reactor is a much cheaper upgrade than banshee cloak)
I'm unsure as to how it buffs the banshee cloak upgrade. Correct me if I'm wrong here, but doesn't Caduceus Reactor increase the starting energy of Medivacs, not banshees?
Neosteel frames add armor to buildings right? If your opponent is getting a lot of mutalisks, this really helps the repair turret. Nothing can defeat the 3 armor repair turret. Lol
On September 30 2011 01:38 Sumadin wrote: As for caduceus reactor i think the only time i have seen it used was to bluff the banshee cloak upgrade(Since caduceus reactor is a much cheaper upgrade than banshee cloak)
I'm unsure as to how it buffs the banshee cloak upgrade. Correct me if I'm wrong here, but doesn't Caduceus Reactor increase the starting energy of Medivacs, not banshees?
On September 30 2011 01:38 Sumadin wrote: As for caduceus reactor i think the only time i have seen it used was to bluff the banshee cloak upgrade(Since caduceus reactor is a much cheaper upgrade than banshee cloak)
I'm unsure as to how it buffs the banshee cloak upgrade. Correct me if I'm wrong here, but doesn't Caduceus Reactor increase the starting energy of Medivacs, not banshees?
Generally, you don't get to research those weird stuff in your starport techlabs because most people like to pump out stuff from reactor.
rather than neosteel frame upgrade I like the +2 armor upgrade on all buildings I think that's way more practical than either caduceus reactor or neosteel
EPT
