On September 02 2011 03:00 RichWing wrote: I just thought of something. How about a 6pool vs P/T incorporating your workers to utilize this trick to break down their wall fast. Would that work?
It sounds like it wouldn't work as well as you might hope.
For one, your zerglings would be pushed away from attacking the wall while your drones were drilling, meaning you wouldn't nibble down the wall that much faster.
Two, you'd only have a handful of drones to drill with anyhow, meaning you'd be sacrificing any reinforcing lings to potentially take down the wall a tiny bit faster.
Three, I feel like you could use 2-3 early drones to prevent the wall from being completed at all, but
Four, them not walling should actually be scarier than them walling if you're 6, 7, or 9 pooling.
On September 02 2011 03:00 RichWing wrote: I just thought of something. How about a 6pool vs P/T incorporating your workers to utilize this trick to break down their wall fast. Would that work?
It sounds like it wouldn't work as well as you might hope.
For one, your zerglings would be pushed away from attacking the wall while your drones were drilling, meaning you wouldn't nibble down the wall that much faster.
Two, you'd only have a handful of drones to drill with anyhow, meaning you'd be sacrificing any reinforcing lings to potentially take down the wall a tiny bit faster.
Three, I feel like you could use 2-3 early drones to prevent the wall from being completed at all, but
Four, them not walling should actually be scarier than them walling if you're 6, 7, or 9 pooling.
The main thing isnt about 3 pylons + 2 cancelled cannons vs. 15 drone mining.
Its about having 2 hatcheries (2 base) against a protoss player that doesn't have a gateway. You can drone like a mad man and come out ahead EASY despite the mineral loss.
edit: perhaps its like paying 400 minerals so that protoss has nothing to apply pressure while you have a hatchery and 2 bases.
Really cool, i think he could've done it a bit better in the vid but it shows the point pretty well. I thik if executed better you lose less mining time and certainly pull ahead, especially if the toss actually lets all those building finish.
I posted this in the other thread, but I thought I'd do so again here. This more clearly illustrates why the shift method can do more damage overall. Again, forgive my excitement; at the time just demonstrating for a couple clan/teammates in vent.
I actually don't think this is good evidence of shift clicking being better at all, doing the same thing without shift clicking much faster you have 130 probes (hard to read with low quality vid but I think that is correct) with that many using regular clicking for both attacking and mining will 1 shot the pylon instantly as opposed to over 1-2 seconds.
I also noticed there seems to be a delay where you are stacking up I'm assuming this is just because you waited a second or two to press shift for the sake of the video but if not this would also make it much slower.
having said all of this it might be quicker to shift click with fewer workers but its also more difficult and easier to mess up unless there is a substantial increase in speed (which I doubt given that you are always limited by the worker attack speed) I don't think shift clicking is ever going to be a good idea.
I just tested it myself, you're correct. ButteryLlama had 110 probes in his video and with 110 probes I was able to simply 1 shot the pylon by shift-queuing gather command then manually attacking.
I said it in the first thread and I'll say it again: This is nice, but old. Stop giving people credits they don't deserve, damnit. This was discussed soo many times in the strategy forums and people still have issues with pylon blocks etc as there are so many problems around it. Even if you kill a pylon, you lost like... how many minerals?! Too many. And then there are the cannons, or the protoss could just build a gate and chronoboost zealots out while you lost so much to this etc
This is a similar issue to the spanishiwa stuff, now this guy will get so overrated because he "found out" something that other people discovered this way before him but didn't make a "look at me i'm so creative and good"-thing out of it.
You'd be asking: "So what?" Well, apparently people still have issues with that, even with that little trick. Just use the search function.
No offense to milkyway(I'm not even addressing him), but the reaction by the community is driving me insane. I could just steal a good idea, say it was mine and then get all the credit for it. great
I said it in the first thread and I'll say it again: This is nice, but old. Stop giving people credits they don't deserve, damnit. This was discussed soo many times in the strategy forums and people still have issues with pylon blocks etc as there are so many problems around it. Even if you kill a pylon, you lost like... how many minerals?! Too many. And then there are the cannons, or the protoss could just build a gate and chronoboost zealots out while you lost so much to this etc
This is a similar issue to the spanishiwa stuff, now this guy will get so overrated because he "found out" something that other people discovered this way before him but didn't make a "look at me i'm so creative and good"-thing out of it.
You'd be asking: "So what?" Well, apparently people still have issues with that, even with that little trick. Just use the search function.
No offense to milkyway(I'm not even addressing him), but the reaction by the community is driving me insane. I could just steal a good idea, say it was mine and then get all the credit for it. great
Wow your so pressed man. Look at all the people in this thread that learned about it and are happy. It does help deal with cannon contains which is far from a broken strategy.
I said it in the first thread and I'll say it again: This is nice, but old. Stop giving people credits they don't deserve, damnit. This was discussed soo many times in the strategy forums and people still have issues with pylon blocks etc as there are so many problems around it. Even if you kill a pylon, you lost like... how many minerals?! Too many. And then there are the cannons, or the protoss could just build a gate and chronoboost zealots out while you lost so much to this etc
This is a similar issue to the spanishiwa stuff, now this guy will get so overrated because he "found out" something that other people discovered this way before him but didn't make a "look at me i'm so creative and good"-thing out of it.
You'd be asking: "So what?" Well, apparently people still have issues with that, even with that little trick. Just use the search function.
No offense to milkyway(I'm not even addressing him), but the reaction by the community is driving me insane. I could just steal a good idea, say it was mine and then get all the credit for it. great
Wow your so pressed man. Look at all the people in this thread that learned about it and are happy. It does help deal with cannon contains which is far from a broken strategy.
I can't even tell if I came up with that ingame or if I read it in the strategy forums before because this is nothing new... I just don't want to have another overrated player because of this, we all know what happens afterwards. Thats all.
On September 02 2011 03:00 RichWing wrote: I just thought of something. How about a 6pool vs P/T incorporating your workers to utilize this trick to break down their wall fast. Would that work?
It sounds like it wouldn't work as well as you might hope.
For one, your zerglings would be pushed away from attacking the wall while your drones were drilling, meaning you wouldn't nibble down the wall that much faster.
Two, you'd only have a handful of drones to drill with anyhow, meaning you'd be sacrificing any reinforcing lings to potentially take down the wall a tiny bit faster.
Three, I feel like you could use 2-3 early drones to prevent the wall from being completed at all, but
Four, them not walling should actually be scarier than them walling if you're 6, 7, or 9 pooling.
Fifth, pathing for the drones doesn't work like that. They will not pile up on the ramp heading toward the minerals, rather they will go down the ramp and toward the wall at the bottom of the base (at least on XNC).
On September 02 2011 03:00 RichWing wrote: I just thought of something. How about a 6pool vs P/T incorporating your workers to utilize this trick to break down their wall fast. Would that work?
It sounds like it wouldn't work as well as you might hope.
For one, your zerglings would be pushed away from attacking the wall while your drones were drilling, meaning you wouldn't nibble down the wall that much faster.
Two, you'd only have a handful of drones to drill with anyhow, meaning you'd be sacrificing any reinforcing lings to potentially take down the wall a tiny bit faster.
Three, I feel like you could use 2-3 early drones to prevent the wall from being completed at all, but
Four, them not walling should actually be scarier than them walling if you're 6, 7, or 9 pooling.
Fifth, pathing for the drones doesn't work like that. They will not pile up on the ramp heading toward the minerals, rather they will go down the ramp and toward the wall at the bottom of the base (at least on XNC).
It wont work the way he wants it to but in an off topic kind of manner he could be really all in and do a drone mineral stack and then send it to the opponents base and surround the early fighting units of a protoss or non walled with drones until lings get a chance to move in.
A la this ridiculously hilarious tactic posted above
On September 01 2011 01:07 Goolpsy wrote: That is 15 drones working to take down a pylon? And then thereafter have to take down 1 or 2 cannons. How is that not alot of mining time? The Math is 3xpylon + 2 cancelled cannons = 362 minerals vs 15/all mining workers for 1 ingame minute.
I do not not the exact numbers, but is it certain that Zerg will be economically ahead after this?
ACtually a highly APMed player (anyone can spam for 10 seconds of their life really if you are at that level where you get pylon blocked) can break the pylon in 5-6 shots (which takes maybe 10 seconds) plus the 10 second pull time and the 10 second killing of the pylons (which you don't actually need all your drones to do).
SO IF you aren't playing at an extremely low pace, you should be easily able to not AUTO lose the game.
I dunno bro its either Auto Lose>Not auto lose. Even if you don't Auto-lose and you think you'll lose 6 minutes down the road, think about it. Protoss delayed his nexus, his gateway and his cannon to his front to do that block. If its a map like shakuras if you panick made zergslings + did this bust you probably could counter attack and win.
I think its a awesome trick to have if the situation occurs however, the problem is you will be quiet far behind due to pulling all your drones off minerals against a protoss who has 2 base with constant probe production and mining.
This seems amazing, but is this really cost effective? Considering that he pulls all of his drones off and that a cannon will finish by the time they break out.
Amazing find!!! Hopefully blizzard will keep it and instead get rid of those hideous supply depots. The supply depots only stop it but if they take it away and this becomes quite well known. Canon Rushes and blocks will still be viable but it will depend on the zergs micro to break it.
Yea idk if this is meant to be or not. I know that all units work like this when stacked. The problem is only workers can be stacked. Im very happy this trick helps though, even if its not intended.
I once put an FF behind lings attacking my cybercore, to trap them. It grouped all 15 lings on top of eachother. They killed the cybercore faster than if they had a full surround. TT. The engine acts weird when stacked/attacking at the same time.
So OP when the trick works on individual units. The cybercore litterally died in about 2 seconds.
EPT
