EPT1) maps are not balanced for every position (not symmetric)
2) this trick should either be fixed to work on every starting position or not work at all
hope you do something about this blizz
The MilkyWay Drone Drill - Page 12
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archflames
Mexico204 Posts
1) maps are not balanced for every position (not symmetric) 2) this trick should either be fixed to work on every starting position or not work at all hope you do something about this blizz | ||
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MegaDancer
United States25 Posts
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Janders
Mexico222 Posts
On September 01 2011 01:07 Goolpsy wrote: usually protoss do this whenever they see a hatch first and no platrolling drone in FFE maps so considering that, not losing ur expansion and delaying his is a huge economical/tech advantage just for a 200(rough number) minerals ? i would sayThat is 15 drones working to take down a pylon? And then thereafter have to take down 1 or 2 cannons. How is that not alot of mining time? The Math is 3xpylon + 2 cancelled cannons = 362 minerals vs 15/all mining workers for 1 ingame minute. I do not not the exact numbers, but is it certain that Zerg will be economically ahead after this? | ||
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xlava
United States676 Posts
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Belial88
United States5217 Posts
You realize any half decent player will always keep track of the scouting worker in their base, and won't let a hatch go unnoticed right? And even then, the best response is just 2 cannons on it when it's halfway done. Anyways because of cannons behind mineral lines, I won't be hatching first against P still. However it is nice I can do something against wall-ins now, I normally patrol a drone if I haven't scouted P yet (or I do scout and see forge). | ||
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Giantt
Bulgaria82 Posts
Also - has anyone tried the trick on maps that have the natural's minerals in such position that the trick does not work - with the save screen and jump to screen hotkeys ? It is like 3 times more apm intensive but I think it could make it work at any map. | ||
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Lephex
Germany153 Posts
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Neneu
Norway492 Posts
On September 03 2011 13:38 xlava wrote: Aside from the fact that the Zerg will most certainly NOT be ahead this is very interesting. Don't post rubbish and read the replies. To quote an earlier post: On September 02 2011 23:51 junemermaid wrote: + Show Spoiler + On September 02 2011 17:13 ReketSomething wrote: The main thing isnt about 3 pylons + 2 cancelled cannons vs. 15 drone mining. Its about having 2 hatcheries (2 base) against a protoss player that doesn't have a gateway. You can drone like a mad man and come out ahead EASY despite the mineral loss. edit: perhaps its like paying 400 minerals so that protoss has nothing to apply pressure while you have a hatchery and 2 bases. Took 10 pages for someone to finally say this. After the pylon wall is down, what does toss have? Nothing. That means zerg can just drone up without even scouting for a good 4 minutes, on two bases, and toss has absolutely nothing to follow up with. Even if the zerg player loses in mining time, they will eventually come out ahead as toss has no means to keep the zerg player honest. | ||
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Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
Edit: This is with 14g14p opening. | ||
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enecateReAP
United Kingdom378 Posts
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Grijzeham
United Kingdom50 Posts
someone seems to think it's viable. | ||
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Geo.Rion
7377 Posts
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Nerfed
Russian Federation1132 Posts
On September 01 2011 01:14 eieio wrote: I believe 3 pylons + 2 cancelled cannons should be 375 minerals: a cannon costs 150 minerals and you get 75% of the cost back when you cancel a building so you should lose 37.5 minerals per cancelled cannon for a total of 75. Intuitively to me zerg should be ahead after using this trick but the more I do the math the more it seems like zerg might be behind in terms of minerals spent by toss vs minerals lost by zerg. Perhaps the optimal solution is to bring just enough drones to break down the wall in time to kill the cannons? This definitely depends on how much people can refine this trick / how fast they can get it. I love this trick! Very exciting to see a broodwar-esque trick like this discovered. It also seems like this should be a big help to zergs dealing with stupid pylon walloffs. Well, IMO, the thing is that protoss player, executing such a rush commits to it heavily. If you clear you bases from his cannons, that means you can safely expand and do whatever you want since protoss wouldn't have his gateway started, while you will be taking your natural/building pool or whatever depending on your opener. One more thing, that have to feel very badly for P, so you will have kinda of mood-edge  | ||
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Weenkus
Croatia26 Posts
http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=details&id=229751 | ||
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GuardianEU
Netherlands488 Posts
On September 03 2011 15:31 Belial88 wrote: To the person who said you can 'counter' cannon contains with proxy hatch inbase with scouting drone. You realize any half decent player will always keep track of the scouting worker in their base, and won't let a hatch go unnoticed right? And even then, the best response is just 2 cannons on it when it's halfway done. Anyways because of cannons behind mineral lines, I won't be hatching first against P still. However it is nice I can do something against wall-ins now, I normally patrol a drone if I haven't scouted P yet (or I do scout and see forge). you do realize this is Catz's standard response to getting cannon rushed? and even if the hatch dies because of 2 cannons the P spent more money? and you can even go 1 base mutalisks after the proxy hatch to get the win? and the idea of the hatch is not to win, but to get 3 roaches out and 1shot workers with them? | ||
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Logros
Netherlands9913 Posts
On September 03 2011 18:28 Grijzeham wrote: surprised no one has posted this yet; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9CA9AahV1E&feature=feedu someone seems to think it's viable. I guess this shows how viable it is. With proper control those pylons go down craaaazy fast. And as has been said before. If you take down the contain the protoss will have absolutely nothing for the next few minutes and you're free to drone off of 2 bases like crazy. | ||
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ohampatu
United States1448 Posts
On September 04 2011 03:17 GuardianEU wrote: you do realize this is Catz's standard response to getting cannon rushed? and even if the hatch dies because of 2 cannons the P spent more money? and you can even go 1 base mutalisks after the proxy hatch to get the win? and the idea of the hatch is not to win, but to get 3 roaches out and 1shot workers with them? Glad somebody agreed. I posted that, and another thing or two that could be used to just even it up. Not neccesarrily win. I saw some replied to my post about the lings stacking on top of eachother (i think its a bug) and killing my cybercore in like 2 seconds. I think only lings are able to stack and attack. Trying to do that with zealots/stalkers/roaches wont work. Only like 2 units will attack and the rest will be stuck. | ||
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ohampatu
United States1448 Posts
Even if he decides to do a 6 gate or 7 gate blink +2 or any other 2 base allin. You have about 7 minutes of macro before those will hit. | ||
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babysimba
10466 Posts
The question of whether zerg is economically ahead after not mining for that long, the answer is undoubtedly yes. Protoss will need to delay their expansion to setup their base defence or risk slow-lings run-by. If only nestea did this against mvp's bunker rush =/ | ||
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ohampatu
United States1448 Posts
On September 04 2011 03:44 babysimba wrote: I don't see why toss are complaining. You can still punish zerg by cannoning behind or in between mineral lines. Blocking the ramp is so abusive to zerg since you can do it even if the zerg goes pool first. The game is over if the opponent knows what to do to keep their lead. The question of whether zerg is economically ahead after not mining for that long, the answer is undoubtedly yes. Protoss will need to delay their expansion to setup their base defence or risk slow-lings run-by. If only nestea did this against mvp's bunker rush =/ Um, i dont think any toss are complaining. Mostly this is zerg players discussing best how to perform the trick. And yes, we know canons in other places suck. To sum up for people joining late. Watch the op to figure out how to do it. And then if you want to time it best: Wait untill the third pylon finishes, pull 8-10 drones (no reason to really go above 9, but 10 is safe). Will take you about 7 realtime seconds. (15ish in game settings). Things to lookout for: Protoss not dropping his expo or gw at home for defense after. Toss putting a gw behind the dieing pylon. | ||
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