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[G] Darkgrid Layout - Page 23

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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Natespank
Profile Joined November 2011
Canada449 Posts
May 13 2012 11:09 GMT
#441
Imo, instead of using normal players to gather your data, shouldn't you just download all the replay packs from major tournaments in 2012 and use those? I'd rather have a hotkey setup that lets me play like DRG than like my friend Ben in bronze.
Sennin
Profile Joined July 2011
Belgium50 Posts
May 13 2012 13:11 GMT
#442
That's what they're doing. They're looking how the layouts influence lower league keyboard use and compare them to pros.
JaKaTaKSc2
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States2787 Posts
May 13 2012 19:35 GMT
#443
Okay, running into an issue with the data that we could really use help for. we need to know every single situation where it is necessary to use stop as opposed to using hold position. Please read all below this post so that there are no repeats. Thanks
Commentatorhttps://www.youtube.com/JaKaTaKtv
FoxyMayhem
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
624 Posts
May 13 2012 19:39 GMT
#444
Stop marine stutter step is a bit better than hold position stutter step, since when you look away your marines will still move to be aggressive. But this is the only one I know. What other cases is stop better than hold?
uoeahtns
Profile Joined February 2012
52 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-13 21:01:53
May 13 2012 20:33 GMT
#445
One instance when I've used stop is when you spam inject right after they finish and one of your queens don't have quite enough energy, they start walking around. Hold would work for that, but I think a stopped queen would be better than a hold-ed queen. The difference is negligible, but it technically is better to use stop in that case. (this would be right after the queens start walking. Soon enough so that it would not be necessary to move the queens back to the hatchery)

Edit: If in the middle of a battle, if you try to focus something but it is pulled back, you would want to press stop on your army as opposed to hold position.
Fencar
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States2694 Posts
May 13 2012 22:01 GMT
#446
I personally prefer a-move to stop in all battle situations, since there could be units reinforcing that you added to your control group, and you want them to come to your aid, such as when you're doing some sort of proxy rax cheeze.
This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
silly
Profile Joined November 2009
Sweden18 Posts
May 13 2012 22:27 GMT
#447
Placing OLs in specific positions( looking at gases etc) is easier to stop in the correct position than trying to click it. And then you want to have them to move by themselves if they get attacked therefore stop instead of hold.
Amaterasu1234
Profile Joined November 2010
United States317 Posts
May 13 2012 22:45 GMT
#448
Only reason I've ever used stop was to get my scv to stop building a rax or something when a drone comes along and starts harassing it. Otherwise, hold does the job well...
JaKaTaKSc2
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States2787 Posts
May 13 2012 23:44 GMT
#449
On May 14 2012 07:27 silly wrote:
Placing OLs in specific positions( looking at gases etc) is easier to stop in the correct position than trying to click it. And then you want to have them to move by themselves if they get attacked therefore stop instead of hold.


Fortunately, OLs can't really get away from anything so I feel hold position would work just fine.

On May 14 2012 07:45 Amaterasu1234 wrote:
Only reason I've ever used stop was to get my scv to stop building a rax or something when a drone comes along and starts harassing it. Otherwise, hold does the job well...


Also Fortuantely, halt construction is different than the stop command :D

So far I'm only seeing slightly better stutter step as necessary.
Commentatorhttps://www.youtube.com/JaKaTaKtv
Borskey
Profile Joined February 2012
160 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-14 01:28:22
May 14 2012 01:25 GMT
#450
Hold positioned workers don't show up as idle. So there's 2 things you need stop for.

F1 split: say banelings are about to hit your mineral line. Box your workers, hit stop. Then hold "idle workers" down and spam right-click all over your screen as fast as you can. (If you've never done this before, go ahead and try it vs the computer. It's kind of cool and is the absolute fastest split you can do)

Cancelling a queued order for an SCV that is building something: Say I set an SCV to build a factory, and out of habit I told it to go back to minerals but I actually want this SCV to build a starport right after the factory completes, right next to the factory. To cancel the "go back to mining" command, I box the SCV and hit stop (I do not use shift). The "stop" actually gets queued to happen after the factory finishes. That way as soon as the factory finishes I see the idle worker and can just hit "idle workers" to select it. If you used hold instead of stop, the SCV never becomes idle. If you issued a move command at the SCV's feet instead, you might waste a few seconds in travel time if the SCV happens to be on the opposite side of the building when it completes.

I don't know why Amaterasu says stop gets an SCV to stop building, cause that's not what it does. I'm pretty sure you need to use "halt construction" for that.

Those are the only two that come to mind right away.
bgalang92
Profile Joined February 2011
United States155 Posts
May 14 2012 01:58 GMT
#451
Similar to the worker splitting situation explained above, sometimes during a hectic battle in my main or natural I may accidentally box probes in with my main army. When they are all mixed in with the rest of the units, it is very difficult to pull them back out for mining. In this case, I like to box my whole army, hit "stop," then select idle probes to send them back. Much faster than simple waiting for my army to finish whatever command they were doing previously.
JaKaTaKSc2
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States2787 Posts
May 14 2012 03:11 GMT
#452


On May 14 2012 10:25 Borskey wrote:
Hold positioned workers don't show up as idle. So there's 2 things you need stop for.

F1 split: say banelings are about to hit your mineral line. Box your workers, hit stop. Then hold "idle workers" down and spam right-click all over your screen as fast as you can. (If you've never done this before, go ahead and try it vs the computer. It's kind of cool and is the absolute fastest split you can do)

Cancelling a queued order for an SCV that is building something: Say I set an SCV to build a factory, and out of habit I told it to go back to minerals but I actually want this SCV to build a starport right after the factory completes, right next to the factory. To cancel the "go back to mining" command, I box the SCV and hit stop (I do not use shift). The "stop" actually gets queued to happen after the factory finishes. That way as soon as the factory finishes I see the idle worker and can just hit "idle workers" to select it. If you used hold instead of stop, the SCV never becomes idle. If you issued a move command at the SCV's feet instead, you might waste a few seconds in travel time if the SCV happens to be on the opposite side of the building when it completes.

I don't know why Amaterasu says stop gets an SCV to stop building, cause that's not what it does. I'm pretty sure you need to use "halt construction" for that.

Those are the only two that come to mind right away.


the F1 split is a good example, however, you can just right click the ground to cancel the shift back to mining and build the starport right after.

Thanks :D


On May 14 2012 10:58 bgalang92 wrote:
Similar to the worker splitting situation explained above, sometimes during a hectic battle in my main or natural I may accidentally box probes in with my main army. When they are all mixed in with the rest of the units, it is very difficult to pull them back out for mining. In this case, I like to box my whole army, hit "stop," then select idle probes to send them back. Much faster than simple waiting for my army to finish whatever command they were doing previously.


I feel like ctrl+clicking will be faster, because the idle probes will only appear as idle when they stop moving, whereas you could ctrl+click a probe and send em all back soopa quick :D
Commentatorhttps://www.youtube.com/JaKaTaKtv
bgalang92
Profile Joined February 2011
United States155 Posts
May 14 2012 03:16 GMT
#453
On May 14 2012 12:11 JaKaTaK wrote:

I feel like ctrl+clicking will be faster, because the idle probes will only appear as idle when they stop moving, whereas you could ctrl+click a probe and send em all back soopa quick :D


While I would normally agree with you, I'm talking about a situation when a mineral line will also be on the screen, such as when I'm defending a big drop or even multiple drops when army management gets very difficult, so CTRL clicking might not be the most efficient, unless you don't mind having to reassign workers back to gas and having all your workers group up on a single patch.
Amaterasu1234
Profile Joined November 2010
United States317 Posts
May 14 2012 03:20 GMT
#454
On May 14 2012 08:44 JaKaTaK wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 14 2012 07:45 Amaterasu1234 wrote:
Only reason I've ever used stop was to get my scv to stop building a rax or something when a drone comes along and starts harassing it. Otherwise, hold does the job well...


Also Fortuantely, halt construction is different than the stop command :D


...really? ...wow...I...did not know that...XD
Borskey
Profile Joined February 2012
160 Posts
May 14 2012 03:36 GMT
#455
What exactly do you need the replays for btw?

Do they have to be from people who used the darkgrid layout completely? If people send you replays with a slightly different or perhaps outdated layout, would it screw things up?

If you're trying to figure out the BEST way to lay things out, it might not be a good idea to base some of those on the habits of players. A real obvious example of why that might not be a good idea, say you get replays from people who don't focus banelings with their tanks, and your conclusion ends up being that you don't need a separate group for tanks since they never get selected. Obviously you wouldn't make that particular mistake, but hopefully you understand what I mean.
stevarius
Profile Joined August 2010
United States1394 Posts
May 14 2012 07:51 GMT
#456
Few things I changed on the layout:

Baracks on two instead of having two camera hotkeys for 1 and 2. I only need the 1. I also kept attack as A and rebinded patrol to P. I don't understand why those were switched and it is MUCH easier to re-learn this way. Everything else is awesome and the baracks rebind was due to only having one good extra mouse button that works for my thumb.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
JaKaTaKSc2
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States2787 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-15 03:36:47
May 14 2012 15:36 GMT
#457
On May 14 2012 12:16 bgalang92 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 14 2012 12:11 JaKaTaK wrote:

I feel like ctrl+clicking will be faster, because the idle probes will only appear as idle when they stop moving, whereas you could ctrl+click a probe and send em all back soopa quick :D


While I would normally agree with you, I'm talking about a situation when a mineral line will also be on the screen, such as when I'm defending a big drop or even multiple drops when army management gets very difficult, so CTRL clicking might not be the most efficient, unless you don't mind having to reassign workers back to gas and having all your workers group up on a single patch.


Good point. I was not thinking of other workers on the screen. How do you avoid all workers grouping up on single patch with idle worker that is more efficient than the auto-split. I disagree with this last point you make.
Commentatorhttps://www.youtube.com/JaKaTaKtv
bgalang92
Profile Joined February 2011
United States155 Posts
May 15 2012 05:56 GMT
#458
I'm a little confused by the last point you make xD haha. What I mean is that control clicking when a mineral line is in view is going to pull all the workers in your army AND the mining workers to the same patch before they auto split, resulting in some lost mining time, as well as having to reassign workers back to gas, something you can avoid if you stop+idle worker select, so only the idle workers will be selected..
JaKaTaKSc2
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States2787 Posts
May 15 2012 16:09 GMT
#459
On May 15 2012 14:56 bgalang92 wrote:
I'm a little confused by the last point you make xD haha. What I mean is that control clicking when a mineral line is in view is going to pull all the workers in your army AND the mining workers to the same patch before they auto split, resulting in some lost mining time, as well as having to reassign workers back to gas, something you can avoid if you stop+idle worker select, so only the idle workers will be selected..



OOoooookay, gotcha :D thanks.
Commentatorhttps://www.youtube.com/JaKaTaKtv
UpooPoo
Profile Joined November 2010
United States25 Posts
May 15 2012 16:37 GMT
#460
I use stop when microing stalkers cause I don't have the micro to maintain a perfect concave while running away. Hitting stop gets me maybe an extra shot or two because the stalkers that are out of the arc come back to shoot instead of staying where they are and doing nothing if they were on hold. Same thing with marines, hydras, colossus, etc.

Also, I would say my default action when I want things to hold still is to use stop because then the AI helps units run away or attack when given the opportunity. When I absolutely want things to hold still (worker wall, keep DTs from getting up ramp, etc) I will use hold position. Otherwise it's always stop.
I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
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