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[G] Darkgrid Layout - Page 22

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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Northern_iight
Profile Joined May 2011
Canada363 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-04 18:55:31
May 04 2012 18:26 GMT
#421
hey foxy, how are the fingers suppose to be when injecting? I'm trying it now and it feels a bit ackward tucking the thumb in. Is it suppose to be like

pinky hold shift
index press E
thumb to alt
ring finger to Q
left click
middle to W
left click
index to D

Edit: also what is NXWT? the "1" camera key
FoxyMayhem
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
624 Posts
May 04 2012 19:15 GMT
#422
Nearest Xel'naga Watch Tower,

Pinkie to shift and thumb to alt, only press and hold shift.
Index press e.
Press and hold alt.
Ring to Q.
Left Click
Middle to W.
Left click.
Index to D.

You mostly have it right, but getting your thumb on alt before you begin the process makes for a more comfortable hand position. It is a bit awkward at first.
kORALIE
Profile Joined November 2011
Belgium16 Posts
May 04 2012 21:21 GMT
#423
I have one q about protoss layout. Can you do it like terran style? Put major production buildings to those three numbers (3-5)? Like:
4 - nexus
3 - Robo/stargate
5 - Gate/warpgates

I cant use those delicious mouse buttons since i've mouse which doesnt have any of those.

I personally find this pretty good, but will it fuck up the whole great system u've developed?
FoxyMayhem
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
624 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-05 01:40:35
May 05 2012 01:39 GMT
#424
@kORALIE: Yes you can, and it's quite good as well.

-

JaKaTaK and I are joining forces. During a 5 hour call today, we made a breakthrough in keyboard layout efficiency.

If you guys like Darkgrid, feel free to stick with it, it's a fantastic layout. We won't even publish the new one if it doesn't turn out better.

...but if it does turn out like it's looking to, I don't think I could ever play Darkgrid 1.3 again. This is as big an improvement as Layered cameras were. The bad news: the layout works very different in half the places, which is why I can believe many won't want to switch again. For those who might, for some masochistic reason, want to help us test the layout and refine it, shoot me a PM.

Now, off to engineer some more!
Smat
Profile Joined January 2011
United States301 Posts
May 05 2012 03:27 GMT
#425
When do you think it will be ready? I am just curious as I plan to try to get comfortable with one of these optimized hotkey layouts this summer.
FoxyMayhem
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
624 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-05 03:51:49
May 05 2012 03:49 GMT
#426
Testing will begin in a week. Can't say from there, we'll just have to see how many kinks need ironing out. After so many layouts I'd like to think I'm better at this, and can foresee more problems, ha, but we'll see.
Northern_iight
Profile Joined May 2011
Canada363 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-05 04:13:18
May 05 2012 04:13 GMT
#427
one problem i have with 1.3b is the layered camera. I can't do the thumb on alt comfortably. Several of the hotkey changes are very useful and i'm going to use those, like changing all the abilities and upgrade hotkeys. Another hard thing to use is G as main army group. It's too far of a stretch for me from "G" to "Q".

I experimented for about 4 hours with this layout today and I have mix feelings. The traditional "1-5" control groups is too ingrained in my muscle memory. I also don't see the need to change attack move from "a" to "q". I might try again sometime soon with my own twist to it. I definitely took some hotkey changes from darkgrid to my set up.

I'll be looking forward to your project with jakatak!
FoxyMayhem
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
624 Posts
May 05 2012 04:18 GMT
#428
Both of those things are addressed in the new layout, so far.

Attack is on Q since that's where your fingers rest (QWEF). It takes 25-45 milliseconds to press a key under the finger, and 190-250 so press a key one row above, that's 5-10x as long. If I didn't put the most frequently used and time-sensitive keys right under the finger, I'd be doing a poor job of making the best layout.
kORALIE
Profile Joined November 2011
Belgium16 Posts
May 05 2012 08:56 GMT
#429
Im a bit sad that you guys are working on a new layout, if it has huge changes to darkgrid it is kind of hard (not so hard) to switch over again.

Played over 1000 games with standard keys and just a week ago started to learn this new one. Change was easy, ofc muscle memory is pain in the ass, but this darkgrid layout makes so much sense that it was pretty easy to adapt, took like 50 games against AI and im good to ladder again.

I just hope when u guys release the new layout, u will stick to it completely, do some minor tweaks here and there and so on.

Thank you for this great layout, I cant even thank you enough how much better my left wrist feels.
Sennin
Profile Joined July 2011
Belgium50 Posts
May 05 2012 09:59 GMT
#430
It took me a month until I reset my muscle memory. I'll see if the changes seem interesting and I'll consider changing over.
Hachrt
Profile Blog Joined March 2012
United States5 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-05 12:19:19
May 05 2012 12:15 GMT
#431
Hey hey! You don't need to bind you mouse buttons to O and P! The hotkey customizer in sc2 recognizes the 4th and 5th mouse buttons!!
I realize this, but I play several games that either don't recognize either extra mouse button or that only recognize the 4th mouse button. It's simpler to keep it consistent between games I think.

Hi,

Please can somebody tell me at least which fingers do you use for mouse buttons 3 and 4 ? I find the thumb very uncomfortable with the way i hold my mouse.

Thanks
I use my thumb, but I also use the fingertip grip so it works out for me. Sorry I can't really offer much help.
FoxyMayhem
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
624 Posts
May 05 2012 18:18 GMT
#432
On May 05 2012 17:56 kORALIE wrote:
Im a bit sad that you guys are working on a new layout, if it has huge changes to darkgrid it is kind of hard (not so hard) to switch over again.

Played over 1000 games with standard keys and just a week ago started to learn this new one. Change was easy, ofc muscle memory is pain in the ass, but this darkgrid layout makes so much sense that it was pretty easy to adapt, took like 50 games against AI and im good to ladder again.

I just hope when u guys release the new layout, u will stick to it completely, do some minor tweaks here and there and so on.

Thank you for this great layout, I cant even thank you enough how much better my left wrist feels.

You're welcome!

Yeah, it sucks to switch to Darkgrid only to learn that a different one is on the way. We told everyone as fast as we could, to try to save the people just thinking of switching.

As far as sticking with a layout, my goal has always been to make the best layout you can on a keyboard. If we discover a new way to up the efficiency as drastically as we have again, I'll make a new layout. The good news is, the old layout are still WAAAY better than standard or grid, so those who don't want to switch, don't have to. That said, I will be providing legacy support for those who stay on Dakgrid, releasing version for HotS and a LotV, and updates if any big metagame shifts make it less efficient. There are some keyboards out there that just won't allow for the new layout to work, and for them, Darkgrid is great.
JackDT
Profile Joined January 2012
724 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-09 05:07:34
May 09 2012 04:55 GMT
#433
On May 06 2012 03:18 FoxyMayhem wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 05 2012 17:56 kORALIE wrote:
Im a bit sad that you guys are working on a new layout, if it has huge changes to darkgrid it is kind of hard (not so hard) to switch over again.

Played over 1000 games with standard keys and just a week ago started to learn this new one. Change was easy, ofc muscle memory is pain in the ass, but this darkgrid layout makes so much sense that it was pretty easy to adapt, took like 50 games against AI and im good to ladder again.

I just hope when u guys release the new layout, u will stick to it completely, do some minor tweaks here and there and so on.

Thank you for this great layout, I cant even thank you enough how much better my left wrist feels.

You're welcome!

Yeah, it sucks to switch to Darkgrid only to learn that a different one is on the way. We told everyone as fast as we could, to try to save the people just thinking of switching.

As far as sticking with a layout, my goal has always been to make the best layout you can on a keyboard. If we discover a new way to up the efficiency as drastically as we have again, I'll make a new layout. The good news is, the old layout are still WAAAY better than standard or grid, so those who don't want to switch, don't have to. That said, I will be providing legacy support for those who stay on Dakgrid, releasing version for HotS and a LotV, and updates if any big metagame shifts make it less efficient. There are some keyboards out there that just won't allow for the new layout to work, and for them, Darkgrid is great.


Don't let 'backwards compatibility' or tradition hold you back or even have ANY influence over decisions. The whole point of this thing is to completely rethink hotkey standards and build the best. Onward to a new world of efficiency and APM!

Why test privately though? As long as you make it clear that everything is subject to change and people may not want to get used to it yet... just post what you've got so far!
kORALIE
Profile Joined November 2011
Belgium16 Posts
May 09 2012 13:56 GMT
#434
Is it possible to have attack button in W? It works great with protoss, but somehow it doesnt as terran. It removes "scv building" from CC'.
FoxyMayhem
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
624 Posts
May 09 2012 18:38 GMT
#435
The test will be open to everyone who wants to try, no worries.

kORALIE, that is because the PF attacks, and must have the attack command available. I'm not working on Darkgrid at the moment, though.
DejmienD
Profile Joined May 2012
Poland1 Post
May 11 2012 20:24 GMT
#436
When a new version becomes available?
uoeahtns
Profile Joined February 2012
52 Posts
May 12 2012 01:44 GMT
#437
On May 12 2012 05:24 DejmienD wrote:
When a new version becomes available?

According to JaKaTaK, the new version will become available in a few days.
FoxyMayhem
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
624 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-12 02:37:53
May 12 2012 02:37 GMT
#438
Would have been tomorrow, actually, if I wasn't feeling so sick.
FoxyMayhem
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
624 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-12 23:39:43
May 12 2012 23:39 GMT
#439
Alright Darkgrid players, we need your replays! Send them to me with your leaque (upload to a replay site, or something like google drive or microsoft skydrive). We'll be scanning them for statistics and comparing them to pros to help us design the new layouts.

ASAP. Thanks a ton!

(P.S. for all of those who were helping us with key frequencies, we're scanning replays directly now, so just give us your replays. Thanks a ton.)
Sennin
Profile Joined July 2011
Belgium50 Posts
May 13 2012 10:38 GMT
#440
http://drop.sc/175462
silver (am playing gold leaguers though).
I do use a AZERTY keyboard so some keys are different, if that's what you're looking for.
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