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[G] PvP: Compilation of anti 4 gate builds - Page 7

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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CecilSunkure
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States2829 Posts
October 05 2011 20:33 GMT
#121
On October 06 2011 05:20 Indrium wrote:
That last thing is the opener in your twilight PvP, right Cecil?

Yeah actually, though the first and second one are super similar. Also you can get zealot/sentry instead of 4th/5th stalker.
Indrium
Profile Joined November 2010
United States2236 Posts
October 05 2011 20:37 GMT
#122
I can vouch for the build being effective but super hard then. Took it off the guide and played around with it at one point.

Hmm the zealot sentry thing is interesting. Might try that.
Amui
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada10567 Posts
October 05 2011 20:47 GMT
#123
On October 06 2011 04:59 Sleight wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 06 2011 04:48 DarkQ wrote:
in fact, the diffrent is that 4 Gate doesnt work anymore

Maybe on Taldarim and this beach map, but not more ;=)


This is a REALLY common misconception. 4gate is alive and well. It is now one option in a number of valid options that are based on what you see your opponent do. If you see him skip a Zealot without a quick 2nd gate, that basically cues me to 4 gate. Most builds count on 1 Sentry to generate enough time to warp in another, but frankly, with an aggressive pylon and quick Zealot-Stalker, it's very much alive.


4gate absolutely still works. I've had people skip zealot, spend more chrono than me AND gas steal me while taking their own. That's absolutely not safe and when I get called a noob afterwards for exploiting his build, I chuckle to myself and enjoy the ladder points. People don't realize that the most aggressive version of 4gate(put 2 pylons on low ground, or my goto now if possible 1 low 1 high) actually didn't change very much. Without going for fast 3 stalkers, it's difficult at best to snipe the probe before 2 pylons go up on low ground if you skipped zealot, and a fast sentry will be forced to pop the ff or die to zealot+stalker while the game ending pylon goes up on the high ground.

But overall the matchup has finally got room to develop. It might still be a matchup where expanding before 50 is paramount to suicide, but it's growing and for the first time since people started 4gating pvp, I'm actually having macro PvP games.
Porouscloud - NA LoL
bankai
Profile Joined November 2010
362 Posts
October 20 2011 06:03 GMT
#124
ok think im starting to get the hang of the MC defensive 3gate

I've always had a problem though transitioning afterwards....

Assume that I stop the 4 gate attack with 3 gates, I immediately drop my robo at 6mins - but they camp outside my base with superior unit count (since they got 4gates), then they expand behind the contain (at like 6:45ish). Meanwhile I wait to get my observer to confirm what he is doing, and build up more units to break the contain but I feel like im behind.

Based on this, what is the best transition after stopping 4gate and them expanding behind it?
monk
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States8476 Posts
October 20 2011 07:46 GMT
#125
On October 20 2011 15:03 bankai wrote:
ok think im starting to get the hang of the MC defensive 3gate

I've always had a problem though transitioning afterwards....

Assume that I stop the 4 gate attack with 3 gates, I immediately drop my robo at 6mins - but they camp outside my base with superior unit count (since they got 4gates), then they expand behind the contain (at like 6:45ish). Meanwhile I wait to get my observer to confirm what he is doing, and build up more units to break the contain but I feel like im behind.

Based on this, what is the best transition after stopping 4gate and them expanding behind it?


You should probably have posted this in the MC defensive 3 gate thread =P.

Generally in this situation, you should have a probe or pylon outside your base so you can scout his base to see if he expands. If he tries to contain you, he won't have units to guard his base from scouts.

Anyways, if they camp your ramp with a sentry and expand behind it, the best transition is blink. At worst for them, you will be able to surprise them and kill their units below the ramp. Even if they back off in time, you will be able to deny his expansion.

Your other options include getting a warp prism to ferry units below your ramp or go for a collosi push. Many times, if your opponent goes for an expansion after a failed 4 gate, his econ won't be good enough when you finally push.

That being said, blink and robo are the only two transitions you should do after your opponent fails a 4 gate. They are the 2 most solid builds and should most likely win if you are ahead. On the other hand, you can potentially throw away a lead with dt or pheonix followups.
Moderator
bankai
Profile Joined November 2010
362 Posts
October 20 2011 22:32 GMT
#126
On October 20 2011 16:46 NrGmonk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 20 2011 15:03 bankai wrote:
ok think im starting to get the hang of the MC defensive 3gate

I've always had a problem though transitioning afterwards....

Assume that I stop the 4 gate attack with 3 gates, I immediately drop my robo at 6mins - but they camp outside my base with superior unit count (since they got 4gates), then they expand behind the contain (at like 6:45ish). Meanwhile I wait to get my observer to confirm what he is doing, and build up more units to break the contain but I feel like im behind.

Based on this, what is the best transition after stopping 4gate and them expanding behind it?


You should probably have posted this in the MC defensive 3 gate thread =P.

Generally in this situation, you should have a probe or pylon outside your base so you can scout his base to see if he expands. If he tries to contain you, he won't have units to guard his base from scouts.

Anyways, if they camp your ramp with a sentry and expand behind it, the best transition is blink. At worst for them, you will be able to surprise them and kill their units below the ramp. Even if they back off in time, you will be able to deny his expansion.

Your other options include getting a warp prism to ferry units below your ramp or go for a collosi push. Many times, if your opponent goes for an expansion after a failed 4 gate, his econ won't be good enough when you finally push.

That being said, blink and robo are the only two transitions you should do after your opponent fails a 4 gate. They are the 2 most solid builds and should most likely win if you are ahead. On the other hand, you can potentially throw away a lead with dt or pheonix followups.


Thanks a lot for the good advice

Yeah sorry, was thinking about which thread this would belong in...happy to just copy/paste the post into the other one so other ppl can see this discussion.

Yes I was thinking that blink would be a solid transition and then I would expand behind that myself instead. But based on your PvP Robo Twilight guide, I took the advice that I should drop the robo so I can get an observer and confirm what they are doing (I dont trust myself making scouting reads based on his unit comp yet ) so I always drop a robo as soon as I am safe from 4gate. So I felt that after I drop my robo, its too late to get blink because by the time it finishes, his expansion would have paid off already??

Cool idea though with the warp prism...theres no gas requirement, and if he contains, maybe i can backstab his base with a zealot drop??
Corsica
Profile Joined February 2011
Ukraine1854 Posts
October 20 2011 22:39 GMT
#127
So what is the sense of wall-in in PvP???
I feel like until you get colo+range, it is useless since stalker + obs can just take your gate for free if not cybercore...
monk
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States8476 Posts
October 20 2011 22:46 GMT
#128
On October 21 2011 07:39 Corsica wrote:
So what is the sense of wall-in in PvP???
I feel like until you get colo+range, it is useless since stalker + obs can just take your gate for free if not cybercore...


In the last patch, walls served a bigger purpose. It restricted warpins on your ramp and above the ramp. It also forced opposing zealots to walk up your ramp single file. However, with the new patch, I'm not sure if walls serve a big purpose anymore.

I will eventually update this thread once the PvP metagame stabilizes
Moderator
kemosobie
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States19 Posts
October 20 2011 22:54 GMT
#129
My personal favorite is the 3gate stalker rush but sometimes i will not find the probe or i lack on the side of scouting and i still get four gates, ugh pvp can be so upsetting sometimes.
Boony
Profile Joined March 2011
Australia87 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-20 23:00:51
October 20 2011 23:00 GMT
#130
On October 06 2011 05:37 Indrium wrote:
Hmm the zealot sentry thing is interesting. Might try that.


The problem with going zealot sentry is if they come straight into your base with their zealot and stalker you either have to burn you forcefield before they even have warp gate up, or you do no have the fire power win the fight. This can let them simply put a pylon at the top of your ramp instead of the bottom. My experience is you will loose to a very aggressive player.
Arko.is
Profile Joined March 2011
Iceland35 Posts
October 22 2011 06:09 GMT
#131
Anyone else figured out that the new units in hots won't change 4 gate one bit )
Stun7
Profile Joined September 2011
Canada35 Posts
January 13 2012 21:57 GMT
#132
You're probably all going to laugh, but for the '2 Gas into 3 stalker rush with 2 sentries' I should be watching Stork right? I was a little thrown off because MC wins but Stork is the one who gets 3 stalkers and 2 sentries. Great thread monk, you have so many of them!
monk
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States8476 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-24 11:07:41
January 24 2012 10:58 GMT
#133
On January 14 2012 06:57 Zawmb wrote:
You're probably all going to laugh, but for the '2 Gas into 3 stalker rush with 2 sentries' I should be watching Stork right? I was a little thrown off because MC wins but Stork is the one who gets 3 stalkers and 2 sentries. Great thread monk, you have so many of them!

Yes, stork is TT1.

I also edited the OP a lot for it to be more current.
Moderator
daredpanda
Profile Joined January 2012
United States60 Posts
April 18 2012 15:59 GMT
#134
Hey Monk. I think you should add Bischu's 2Gate Robo Build. IT absolutley hard counters the 4Gate. I've have a good number of success with this build when I scout 4gate or even that really aggressive 3 gate build.

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Bischu_Anti-4Gate_(vs._Protoss)
Terran sandwich with Archon bread. GG all day long!
kaNt-
Profile Joined December 2012
163 Posts
December 14 2012 13:43 GMT
#135
I´m sorry to bump this but i have a question.
In a PvP i do a 3 stalker rush and my opponent steals me a gas geyser, what should I do next?
Geiko
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
France1939 Posts
December 14 2012 13:50 GMT
#136
On December 14 2012 22:43 kaNt- wrote:
I´m sorry to bump this but i have a question.
In a PvP i do a 3 stalker rush and my opponent steals me a gas geyser, what should I do next?


Don't let yourself get gas stolen.
Either put a probe to block or get an earlier gas in your build if you suspect he will try this.

If your gas is stolen, you can either chrono out a zealot and pull one or two probes to kill the geyser,or you can go for a 3 stalker rush into 4 gate with the same 5:45 timing, or you can go for a fake 4 gate, 1 gate FE.
geiko.813 (EU)
kaNt-
Profile Joined December 2012
163 Posts
December 14 2012 14:00 GMT
#137
I still wonder if 3 stalker rush is the best way to deny a 4 gate, isn´t the 2 gate robo more effective? I still can´t find my bread and butter opening in PvP (safe against 4 gate).
Btw I´m top platinum level.
Geiko
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
France1939 Posts
December 14 2012 14:25 GMT
#138
On December 14 2012 23:00 kaNt- wrote:
I still wonder if 3 stalker rush is the best way to deny a 4 gate, isn´t the 2 gate robo more effective? I still can´t find my bread and butter opening in PvP (safe against 4 gate).
Btw I´m top platinum level.


http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=302117

All these are 1 gate tech builds that are safe against 4 gate nowadays.
Plenty of builds also use the zealot sentry zealot sentry opening to be safe (HerO Stargate opener for example)
geiko.813 (EU)
Rickyvalle21
Profile Joined July 2012
United States320 Posts
December 14 2012 14:46 GMT
#139
Ive been seen alot of high levels player not probe scout in pvp and just blind 3 stalker rush in pvp. Is this safe vs 4 gate?
people say practice is perfect but if nothing is perfect whats the point in practicing?
Teoita
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Italy12246 Posts
December 14 2012 15:00 GMT
#140
Stop bumping this thread, it's outdated and not really relevant to competitive play anymore (which is why it's not a reccomended guide).

Write here http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=251528 instead.
ModeratorProtoss all-ins are like a wok. You can throw whatever you want in there and it will turn out alright.
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