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CecilSunkure
United States2829 Posts
On October 06 2011 05:20 Indrium wrote: That last thing is the opener in your twilight PvP, right Cecil? Yeah actually, though the first and second one are super similar. Also you can get zealot/sentry instead of 4th/5th stalker. | ||
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Indrium
United States2236 Posts
Hmm the zealot sentry thing is interesting. Might try that. | ||
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Amui
Canada10567 Posts
On October 06 2011 04:59 Sleight wrote: This is a REALLY common misconception. 4gate is alive and well. It is now one option in a number of valid options that are based on what you see your opponent do. If you see him skip a Zealot without a quick 2nd gate, that basically cues me to 4 gate. Most builds count on 1 Sentry to generate enough time to warp in another, but frankly, with an aggressive pylon and quick Zealot-Stalker, it's very much alive. 4gate absolutely still works. I've had people skip zealot, spend more chrono than me AND gas steal me while taking their own. That's absolutely not safe and when I get called a noob afterwards for exploiting his build, I chuckle to myself and enjoy the ladder points. People don't realize that the most aggressive version of 4gate(put 2 pylons on low ground, or my goto now if possible 1 low 1 high) actually didn't change very much. Without going for fast 3 stalkers, it's difficult at best to snipe the probe before 2 pylons go up on low ground if you skipped zealot, and a fast sentry will be forced to pop the ff or die to zealot+stalker while the game ending pylon goes up on the high ground. But overall the matchup has finally got room to develop. It might still be a matchup where expanding before 50 is paramount to suicide, but it's growing and for the first time since people started 4gating pvp, I'm actually having macro PvP games. | ||
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bankai
362 Posts
 I've always had a problem though transitioning afterwards.... Assume that I stop the 4 gate attack with 3 gates, I immediately drop my robo at 6mins - but they camp outside my base with superior unit count (since they got 4gates), then they expand behind the contain (at like 6:45ish). Meanwhile I wait to get my observer to confirm what he is doing, and build up more units to break the contain but I feel like im behind. Based on this, what is the best transition after stopping 4gate and them expanding behind it? | ||
monk
United States8477 Posts
On October 20 2011 15:03 bankai wrote: ok think im starting to get the hang of the MC defensive 3gate I've always had a problem though transitioning afterwards.... Assume that I stop the 4 gate attack with 3 gates, I immediately drop my robo at 6mins - but they camp outside my base with superior unit count (since they got 4gates), then they expand behind the contain (at like 6:45ish). Meanwhile I wait to get my observer to confirm what he is doing, and build up more units to break the contain but I feel like im behind. Based on this, what is the best transition after stopping 4gate and them expanding behind it? You should probably have posted this in the MC defensive 3 gate thread =P. Generally in this situation, you should have a probe or pylon outside your base so you can scout his base to see if he expands. If he tries to contain you, he won't have units to guard his base from scouts. Anyways, if they camp your ramp with a sentry and expand behind it, the best transition is blink. At worst for them, you will be able to surprise them and kill their units below the ramp. Even if they back off in time, you will be able to deny his expansion. Your other options include getting a warp prism to ferry units below your ramp or go for a collosi push. Many times, if your opponent goes for an expansion after a failed 4 gate, his econ won't be good enough when you finally push. That being said, blink and robo are the only two transitions you should do after your opponent fails a 4 gate. They are the 2 most solid builds and should most likely win if you are ahead. On the other hand, you can potentially throw away a lead with dt or pheonix followups. | ||
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bankai
362 Posts
On October 20 2011 16:46 NrGmonk wrote: You should probably have posted this in the MC defensive 3 gate thread =P. Generally in this situation, you should have a probe or pylon outside your base so you can scout his base to see if he expands. If he tries to contain you, he won't have units to guard his base from scouts. Anyways, if they camp your ramp with a sentry and expand behind it, the best transition is blink. At worst for them, you will be able to surprise them and kill their units below the ramp. Even if they back off in time, you will be able to deny his expansion. Your other options include getting a warp prism to ferry units below your ramp or go for a collosi push. Many times, if your opponent goes for an expansion after a failed 4 gate, his econ won't be good enough when you finally push. That being said, blink and robo are the only two transitions you should do after your opponent fails a 4 gate. They are the 2 most solid builds and should most likely win if you are ahead. On the other hand, you can potentially throw away a lead with dt or pheonix followups. Thanks a lot for the good advice Yeah sorry, was thinking about which thread this would belong in...happy to just copy/paste the post into the other one so other ppl can see this discussion. Yes I was thinking that blink would be a solid transition and then I would expand behind that myself instead. But based on your PvP Robo Twilight guide, I took the advice that I should drop the robo so I can get an observer and confirm what they are doing (I dont trust myself making scouting reads based on his unit comp yet  ) so I always drop a robo as soon as I am safe from 4gate. So I felt that after I drop my robo, its too late to get blink because by the time it finishes, his expansion would have paid off already??Cool idea though with the warp prism...theres no gas requirement, and if he contains, maybe i can backstab his base with a zealot drop?? | ||
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Corsica
Ukraine1854 Posts
I feel like until you get colo+range, it is useless since stalker + obs can just take your gate for free if not cybercore... | ||
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monk
United States8477 Posts
On October 21 2011 07:39 Corsica wrote: So what is the sense of wall-in in PvP??? I feel like until you get colo+range, it is useless since stalker + obs can just take your gate for free if not cybercore... In the last patch, walls served a bigger purpose. It restricted warpins on your ramp and above the ramp. It also forced opposing zealots to walk up your ramp single file. However, with the new patch, I'm not sure if walls serve a big purpose anymore. I will eventually update this thread once the PvP metagame stabilizes | ||
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kemosobie
United States19 Posts
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Boony
Australia87 Posts
On October 06 2011 05:37 Indrium wrote: Hmm the zealot sentry thing is interesting. Might try that. The problem with going zealot sentry is if they come straight into your base with their zealot and stalker you either have to burn you forcefield before they even have warp gate up, or you do no have the fire power win the fight. This can let them simply put a pylon at the top of your ramp instead of the bottom. My experience is you will loose to a very aggressive player. | ||
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Arko.is
Iceland35 Posts
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Stun7
Canada35 Posts
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monk
United States8477 Posts
On January 14 2012 06:57 Zawmb wrote: You're probably all going to laugh, but for the '2 Gas into 3 stalker rush with 2 sentries' I should be watching Stork right? I was a little thrown off because MC wins but Stork is the one who gets 3 stalkers and 2 sentries. Great thread monk, you have so many of them! Yes, stork is TT1. I also edited the OP a lot for it to be more current. | ||
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daredpanda
United States60 Posts
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Bischu_Anti-4Gate_(vs._Protoss) | ||
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kaNt-
163 Posts
In a PvP i do a 3 stalker rush and my opponent steals me a gas geyser, what should I do next? | ||
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Geiko
France2036 Posts
On December 14 2012 22:43 kaNt- wrote: I´m sorry to bump this but i have a question. In a PvP i do a 3 stalker rush and my opponent steals me a gas geyser, what should I do next? Don't let yourself get gas stolen. Either put a probe to block or get an earlier gas in your build if you suspect he will try this. If your gas is stolen, you can either chrono out a zealot and pull one or two probes to kill the geyser,or you can go for a 3 stalker rush into 4 gate with the same 5:45 timing, or you can go for a fake 4 gate, 1 gate FE. | ||
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kaNt-
163 Posts
Btw I´m top platinum level. | ||
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Geiko
France2036 Posts
On December 14 2012 23:00 kaNt- wrote: I still wonder if 3 stalker rush is the best way to deny a 4 gate, isn´t the 2 gate robo more effective? I still can´t find my bread and butter opening in PvP (safe against 4 gate). Btw I´m top platinum level. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=302117 All these are 1 gate tech builds that are safe against 4 gate nowadays. Plenty of builds also use the zealot sentry zealot sentry opening to be safe (HerO Stargate opener for example) | ||
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Rickyvalle21
United States320 Posts
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Teoita
Italy12248 Posts
Write here http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=251528 instead. | ||
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