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[G] StimmedProbe's TvP 1-1-1 All-in/Contain - Page 5

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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VincendioS
Profile Joined March 2011
Belgium107 Posts
August 23 2011 17:29 GMT
#81
Yes. Banshee can harass mineral line & force protoss to make stalker instead of zealot. Then PDD is better in fight.
MMXMoto-X17
Profile Joined July 2011
Barbados23 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-24 00:13:55
August 24 2011 00:12 GMT
#82
This is one of the best Tvp guides I ever read. Very well written to, Nice! I'm only gold but after practicing this build a few times I'm starting to beat platinum and even low diamond protoss. I'm finding this strategy even works vs zerg, or at least the gold/platinum zergs I play vs.

But I have a question, what do I do vs warp prism harass? This protoss dropped 4 zealots in my main as soon as I moved out, and I was forced to retreat and defend. He then did this happened again, etc. I ended up losing the game because he got 2 colosuses out by the time I got to his base.

thanks
StimmedProbe
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Hong Kong98 Posts
August 24 2011 07:19 GMT
#83
On August 24 2011 09:12 MMXMoto-X17 wrote:
This is one of the best Tvp guides I ever read. Very well written to, Nice! I'm only gold but after practicing this build a few times I'm starting to beat platinum and even low diamond protoss. I'm finding this strategy even works vs zerg, or at least the gold/platinum zergs I play vs.

But I have a question, what do I do vs warp prism harass? This protoss dropped 4 zealots in my main as soon as I moved out, and I was forced to retreat and defend. He then did this happened again, etc. I ended up losing the game because he got 2 colosuses out by the time I got to his base.

thanks


If he drops 4 zealots in your main you just take your army + all your base scvs and go kill him. Lift your CC towards your army, and pump out one last round of units from your rax/fact/starport, then lift those too towards your army. If they invest 600 in 4zealots/warp prism they will have much less stuff at home to deal with your push.
OutlaW-
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Czech Republic5053 Posts
August 24 2011 09:12 GMT
#84
On August 24 2011 02:12 Kevincible wrote:
In IEM finals.. I saw Puma getting out a banshee first then a raven against MC.

Could it be because he wants to harass MC's mineral line ASAP?

yes, that allows for harassment, if youre careful u dont lose anything except 50 energy on your raven, and ull still have enough for pdd if u go raven 2nd
so the only thing that really means is some harassment + stalker force for 1 auto turret
Delete your post underage b&. You're incestuous for you're onee-chan so you're clearly not a bad guy, but others might not agree
DaemonX
Profile Joined September 2010
545 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-24 09:52:58
August 24 2011 09:51 GMT
#85
On August 24 2011 16:19 StimmedProbe wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 24 2011 09:12 MMXMoto-X17 wrote:
This is one of the best Tvp guides I ever read. Very well written to, Nice! I'm only gold but after practicing this build a few times I'm starting to beat platinum and even low diamond protoss. I'm finding this strategy even works vs zerg, or at least the gold/platinum zergs I play vs.

But I have a question, what do I do vs warp prism harass? This protoss dropped 4 zealots in my main as soon as I moved out, and I was forced to retreat and defend. He then did this happened again, etc. I ended up losing the game because he got 2 colosuses out by the time I got to his base.

thanks


If he drops 4 zealots in your main you just take your army + all your base scvs and go kill him. Lift your CC towards your army, and pump out one last round of units from your rax/fact/starport, then lift those too towards your army. If they invest 600 in 4zealots/warp prism they will have much less stuff at home to deal with your push.

With all respect, this is not valid in masters Stimmed. 4-zeal warp prism - or more likely, hidden-pylon-and-he-just-runs-them-over-to-your-ramp-zeals don't invest enough that a good player that isn't losing too much stuff will let you break in suddenly. He can force a base-swap with very little investment indeed sometimes, leaving you in a very uncomfortable position.

The best example I can think of is a protoss that forced a lift-off with zealot warp ins into my main (he had a probe and observer out on the map when I established contain, did a low-ground pylon warp-in), and had a single voidray that took out my Orbital and barracks on-route! I was forced to try and crack him and ended up pushing into 3 colossi which picked off all my marines. I wasn't dead but neither was I mining - nasty game. I'll try and dig up the replay.

StimmedProbe
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Hong Kong98 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-24 10:00:13
August 24 2011 09:59 GMT
#86
On August 24 2011 18:51 DaemonX wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 24 2011 16:19 StimmedProbe wrote:
On August 24 2011 09:12 MMXMoto-X17 wrote:
This is one of the best Tvp guides I ever read. Very well written to, Nice! I'm only gold but after practicing this build a few times I'm starting to beat platinum and even low diamond protoss. I'm finding this strategy even works vs zerg, or at least the gold/platinum zergs I play vs.

But I have a question, what do I do vs warp prism harass? This protoss dropped 4 zealots in my main as soon as I moved out, and I was forced to retreat and defend. He then did this happened again, etc. I ended up losing the game because he got 2 colosuses out by the time I got to his base.

thanks


If he drops 4 zealots in your main you just take your army + all your base scvs and go kill him. Lift your CC towards your army, and pump out one last round of units from your rax/fact/starport, then lift those too towards your army. If they invest 600 in 4zealots/warp prism they will have much less stuff at home to deal with your push.

With all respect, this is not valid in masters Stimmed. 4-zeal warp prism - or more likely, hidden-pylon-and-he-just-runs-them-over-to-your-ramp-zeals don't invest enough that a good player that isn't losing too much stuff will let you break in suddenly. He can force a base-swap with very little investment indeed sometimes, leaving you in a very uncomfortable position.

The best example I can think of is a protoss that forced a lift-off with zealot warp ins into my main (he had a probe and observer out on the map when I established contain, did a low-ground pylon warp-in), and had a single voidray that took out my Orbital and barracks on-route! I was forced to try and crack him and ended up pushing into 3 colossi which picked off all my marines. I wasn't dead but neither was I mining - nasty game. I'll try and dig up the replay.



Just for reference, I'm in grandmasters =] Anyways at the highest level of play if you waste 600 minerals on an attack that doesn't do much, you will lose. In addition that warp prism eats up robo build time. The first hellion should poke around for these pylons anyways.

I have never had problems with 4 zealot drops with this build. Yes it is extremely annoying to get 4 zealot dropped, but you just simply send all your scvs now instead of just 12-16 of them. It's sorta how in TvZ, if 20+ mutas keep poking your base, you just say 'ok i've had it, and take your whole army and march across the map and force him to come back to defend your push'.

edit: Terran's almost always win base trades btw =]
nOObie74
Profile Joined August 2011
United States3 Posts
August 30 2011 20:28 GMT
#87
how do you respond to a 3 gate/stargate VR build?
michaelhasanalias
Profile Joined May 2010
Korea (South)1231 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-31 13:21:50
August 31 2011 13:12 GMT
#88
On August 24 2011 18:59 StimmedProbe wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 24 2011 18:51 DaemonX wrote:
On August 24 2011 16:19 StimmedProbe wrote:
On August 24 2011 09:12 MMXMoto-X17 wrote:
This is one of the best Tvp guides I ever read. Very well written to, Nice! I'm only gold but after practicing this build a few times I'm starting to beat platinum and even low diamond protoss. I'm finding this strategy even works vs zerg, or at least the gold/platinum zergs I play vs.

But I have a question, what do I do vs warp prism harass? This protoss dropped 4 zealots in my main as soon as I moved out, and I was forced to retreat and defend. He then did this happened again, etc. I ended up losing the game because he got 2 colosuses out by the time I got to his base.

thanks


If he drops 4 zealots in your main you just take your army + all your base scvs and go kill him. Lift your CC towards your army, and pump out one last round of units from your rax/fact/starport, then lift those too towards your army. If they invest 600 in 4zealots/warp prism they will have much less stuff at home to deal with your push.

With all respect, this is not valid in masters Stimmed. 4-zeal warp prism - or more likely, hidden-pylon-and-he-just-runs-them-over-to-your-ramp-zeals don't invest enough that a good player that isn't losing too much stuff will let you break in suddenly. He can force a base-swap with very little investment indeed sometimes, leaving you in a very uncomfortable position.

The best example I can think of is a protoss that forced a lift-off with zealot warp ins into my main (he had a probe and observer out on the map when I established contain, did a low-ground pylon warp-in), and had a single voidray that took out my Orbital and barracks on-route! I was forced to try and crack him and ended up pushing into 3 colossi which picked off all my marines. I wasn't dead but neither was I mining - nasty game. I'll try and dig up the replay.



Just for reference, I'm in grandmasters =] Anyways at the highest level of play if you waste 600 minerals on an attack that doesn't do much, you will lose. In addition that warp prism eats up robo build time. The first hellion should poke around for these pylons anyways.

I have never had problems with 4 zealot drops with this build. Yes it is extremely annoying to get 4 zealot dropped, but you just simply send all your scvs now instead of just 12-16 of them. It's sorta how in TvZ, if 20+ mutas keep poking your base, you just say 'ok i've had it, and take your whole army and march across the map and force him to come back to defend your push'.

edit: Terran's almost always win base trades btw =]


I'm sorry if I'm trolling, but could you tell me what server you're grandmasters? All your replays are from SEA, but you have played 5 games total on that account, and I can't find you anywhere else.

http://www.sc2ranks.com/sea/345523/stimFatal/season/2

this is an account from your previous million man march thread that hasn't been played since april, and only has 100 ladder wins on it.
http://sea.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/180372/1/StimmedProbe/achievements/category/4325378

I bring this up because I've talked to a few of my practice partners about this build before (as well as your last guide), and they don't feel like it's a legitimate strategy beyond maybe low masters. When you throw around the term "grandmaster" it means you know what you are doing and people should listen. In logical reasoning terminology, it's known as an appeal to authority--that we should believe you because you're a high level player.

However, this isn't a build you've refined in ladder play (and if it is, you haven't posted any of those replays), and I don't see any evidence that you've ever been in GM league on any server. If I'm gravely mistaken then I sincerely do apologize for calling you out, but if indeed you aren't, I hope that you'll stop trying to mislead lower players into working on a build like this that many people have already stated is not very solid at higher level play. (here's a list of the current GM rankings on SEA http://www.playxp.com/sc2/ladder/1v1/sea.php )

And even that's okay, but please don't hype it to be some unbeatable build when it is untested and many good terran players openly disagree and have already left their comments in this thread.
KR NsPMichael.805 | AM Michael.2640 | SEA Michael.523 | 엔에스피 New Star Players
Sympatico
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Canada202 Posts
August 31 2011 13:35 GMT
#89
Personally, at my level (diamond) I find the 1-1-1 to really be a coin flip as to whether it's going to work or not, and is highly reliant on proper micro. I see how it works for the pros, especially with a Raven - but even there, I think it's a risk. I think there are other safer less "all-in" methods to punish your opponent.

I'm sure there are a ton of terrans winning a bunch of games on ladder with this at all levels, but I think most of them will eventually fall back on other standard builds as Protoss figures it out, and starts to figure it out.

1.4 will also help greatly with the Guardian Shield against tanks, immortals not doing the pee-pee dance in the back of the army and the scary thought of more people using warp prisms. Or...maybe terrans will include the HSM in the 1-1-1 and Protoss will have an even harder time! lol

All this being said, I think having this build in your back pocket in a tournament situation is amazing. It puts the fear into your opponent, and you can use that to your advantage. I don't believe in cheese, I think every build is good if designed to win, same goes for this one!
StimmedProbe
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Hong Kong98 Posts
September 01 2011 04:33 GMT
#90
On August 31 2011 22:12 michaelhasanalias wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 24 2011 18:59 StimmedProbe wrote:
On August 24 2011 18:51 DaemonX wrote:
On August 24 2011 16:19 StimmedProbe wrote:
On August 24 2011 09:12 MMXMoto-X17 wrote:
This is one of the best Tvp guides I ever read. Very well written to, Nice! I'm only gold but after practicing this build a few times I'm starting to beat platinum and even low diamond protoss. I'm finding this strategy even works vs zerg, or at least the gold/platinum zergs I play vs.

But I have a question, what do I do vs warp prism harass? This protoss dropped 4 zealots in my main as soon as I moved out, and I was forced to retreat and defend. He then did this happened again, etc. I ended up losing the game because he got 2 colosuses out by the time I got to his base.

thanks


If he drops 4 zealots in your main you just take your army + all your base scvs and go kill him. Lift your CC towards your army, and pump out one last round of units from your rax/fact/starport, then lift those too towards your army. If they invest 600 in 4zealots/warp prism they will have much less stuff at home to deal with your push.

With all respect, this is not valid in masters Stimmed. 4-zeal warp prism - or more likely, hidden-pylon-and-he-just-runs-them-over-to-your-ramp-zeals don't invest enough that a good player that isn't losing too much stuff will let you break in suddenly. He can force a base-swap with very little investment indeed sometimes, leaving you in a very uncomfortable position.

The best example I can think of is a protoss that forced a lift-off with zealot warp ins into my main (he had a probe and observer out on the map when I established contain, did a low-ground pylon warp-in), and had a single voidray that took out my Orbital and barracks on-route! I was forced to try and crack him and ended up pushing into 3 colossi which picked off all my marines. I wasn't dead but neither was I mining - nasty game. I'll try and dig up the replay.



Just for reference, I'm in grandmasters =] Anyways at the highest level of play if you waste 600 minerals on an attack that doesn't do much, you will lose. In addition that warp prism eats up robo build time. The first hellion should poke around for these pylons anyways.

I have never had problems with 4 zealot drops with this build. Yes it is extremely annoying to get 4 zealot dropped, but you just simply send all your scvs now instead of just 12-16 of them. It's sorta how in TvZ, if 20+ mutas keep poking your base, you just say 'ok i've had it, and take your whole army and march across the map and force him to come back to defend your push'.

edit: Terran's almost always win base trades btw =]


I'm sorry if I'm trolling, but could you tell me what server you're grandmasters? All your replays are from SEA, but you have played 5 games total on that account, and I can't find you anywhere else.

http://www.sc2ranks.com/sea/345523/stimFatal/season/2

this is an account from your previous million man march thread that hasn't been played since april, and only has 100 ladder wins on it.
http://sea.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/180372/1/StimmedProbe/achievements/category/4325378

I bring this up because I've talked to a few of my practice partners about this build before (as well as your last guide), and they don't feel like it's a legitimate strategy beyond maybe low masters. When you throw around the term "grandmaster" it means you know what you are doing and people should listen. In logical reasoning terminology, it's known as an appeal to authority--that we should believe you because you're a high level player.

However, this isn't a build you've refined in ladder play (and if it is, you haven't posted any of those replays), and I don't see any evidence that you've ever been in GM league on any server. If I'm gravely mistaken then I sincerely do apologize for calling you out, but if indeed you aren't, I hope that you'll stop trying to mislead lower players into working on a build like this that many people have already stated is not very solid at higher level play. (here's a list of the current GM rankings on SEA http://www.playxp.com/sc2/ladder/1v1/sea.php )

And even that's okay, but please don't hype it to be some unbeatable build when it is untested and many good terran players openly disagree and have already left their comments in this thread.


I recently got sponsored so my new name is CGFatal. Just got it recently so I haven't played too many games on there, but it is in masters. I have a smurf account which is in GM on SEA, I get recognized with my StimmedProbe on SEA too easily and ppl stalk me lol... Anyways since I don't wanna tell everyone the smurf name here is some proof for you:

1.) Recently won an HK tournament and I played a guy named inFiRoz 12 times in the tournament and my overall record vs him was 7:5. He is a rank 44 grandmaster. http://www.sc2ranks.com/sea/19519/inFiRoz Below is a highlight video I made of our winners bracket finals.



2.) Season 2 promotion picture, the guy I beat in that picture (YoonYJ) was at the time ranked #4 in SEA, currently ranked #39. http://i.imgur.com/6jqhi.jpg

3.) Season 2 sc2ranks.com SEA server grandmaster stats sorted by winrate. 75%, behind moonglade who had 82%. My MMR had me constantly matched against the top 50 players in the region. http://i.imgur.com/WLS63.jpg

4.) April 12th, a TL user named Requisition posted this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=200525&currentpage=16#312

Hopefully that is enough to prove that I know what I'm talking about. Anyways about build doubts, I have done the build over 35 times, and crushed face with it every time. It was so effective it got boring after awhile to be really honest. Most of the replays were just me microing a bit and overpowering my opponent, or setting up an insane contain which lead to a victory a few minutes later. If the terran knows how to abuse zealot AI with SCVs, you are really really screwed trust me.... esp with a crisp build order like mine... the only times I have lost with this were when I skipped a bunker and got 4gated (greedy).
askTeivospy
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
1525 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-01 04:40:06
September 01 2011 04:39 GMT
#91
hihi i hate your TvP builds/variations since i'm P (specifically the marine one) but i love your name stimmedprobe so it balances out i guess ^>^
hihihi
tomatriedes
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
New Zealand5356 Posts
September 01 2011 04:52 GMT
#92
I don't know why anyone is doubting this build can work at higher levels when we saw MVP crush MC with something similar.
DjRetro
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Chile309 Posts
September 16 2011 02:43 GMT
#93
This build looks awesome however like many others have said i think it's very risky if your opponent goes 4gate or any other stalker agression.

How do you deal against 4gate? i thank you a lot for sharing

Very funny replays as well ^^
SpaceSynth-ItaloDisco-HiNRG http://www.radiostaddenhaag.com/
LanTAs
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States1091 Posts
September 16 2011 02:57 GMT
#94
On September 16 2011 11:43 DjRetro wrote:
This build looks awesome however like many others have said i think it's very risky if your opponent goes 4gate or any other stalker agression.

How do you deal against 4gate? i thank you a lot for sharing

Very funny replays as well ^^

I found this (and the million man march) build really useful as terran, and i have used it quite a bit (Thanks StimmedProbe!) on the ladder too, its almost my main TvP build :D (Mid-High diamond)
I like to start with a wall off, (2 supply, 1 rax standard wall off) and then lift the rax away and put a bunker there really helps to defend a 4gate, also when they send in the initial Zealot and Stalker+probe, you can run your marines in to snipe the probe (you have quite a number anyways :D), and the helion keeps map awareness too. Once you have siege mode, protoss can't touch you w/o either sacrificing their whole army and loose, or they have to expand and then loose later anways because you have such a large army. :D. When i feel pressured, i just add a bit more barracks and that usually helps defending 3 gate voidray warp ins :D
DaemonX
Profile Joined September 2010
545 Posts
January 29 2012 03:59 GMT
#95
Good reason to bump:

There have been MAJOR balance and metagame changes since this thread was last active.

Many of these would appear to directly affect the viablility of a play like this all-in - especially improved warp prisms, immortal range and guardian shield stacking, along with generally increased immortal usage.

However, from what I can see, the build seems to still work - albeit less aggresively. You can't push into an over-prepared protoss natural anymore or immortals WILL shut you down hard, but the contain aspect still works great.

1) Does anyone else think this specific style (raven-banshee-banshee starport play + siege contain with all-in scvs and structures) can cope with today's improved metagame - esp w/ fast prism counter attacks? The OP's suggestion of "LOL just lift to their natural" just doesn't cut it anymore.

2) Could there be a viable divergance point into macro in this build (either more 1-1-1 or modern mech play) - you 1 base up to the push, and if toss is overprepared, you banshee harass while setting up a contain back at his natural third line and take your own bases?
Sovern
Profile Joined March 2011
United States312 Posts
February 02 2012 02:08 GMT
#96
On January 29 2012 12:59 DaemonX wrote:
Good reason to bump:

There have been MAJOR balance and metagame changes since this thread was last active.

Many of these would appear to directly affect the viablility of a play like this all-in - especially improved warp prisms, immortal range and guardian shield stacking, along with generally increased immortal usage.

However, from what I can see, the build seems to still work - albeit less aggresively. You can't push into an over-prepared protoss natural anymore or immortals WILL shut you down hard, but the contain aspect still works great.

1) Does anyone else think this specific style (raven-banshee-banshee starport play + siege contain with all-in scvs and structures) can cope with today's improved metagame - esp w/ fast prism counter attacks? The OP's suggestion of "LOL just lift to their natural" just doesn't cut it anymore.

2) Could there be a viable divergance point into macro in this build (either more 1-1-1 or modern mech play) - you 1 base up to the push, and if toss is overprepared, you banshee harass while setting up a contain back at his natural third line and take your own bases?


This style does still work, I've been playing around with a 1/1/1 expand into contain with a high marine/tank count while setting up sensor towers/turrets to deny all warp prism play. I use cloak banshees and a mobile force to deny any proxy expansions and get heavy upgrades for my marines/tanks. It works very well on maps that have a choke at the natural. 1/1/1 in general is still very powerful, it comes down to whoever has better micro and decision making skills.
vorxaw
Profile Joined April 2011
Canada245 Posts
February 02 2012 08:09 GMT
#97
2) yes exactly, oGsSupernova did almost exactly this except with banshees+cloak rather than raven and cruuuuushed opponent couple days ago.
AfricanPsycho
Profile Joined December 2011
South Africa158 Posts
February 02 2012 11:09 GMT
#98
Its good to have this build in ur kitty as terran, however a Protoss who FE's into 5gate robo and cuts probes at 38 will crush you every single time unless he slips on macro. This build has no harrasment therefore a good toss will always have what he needs to beat you.

What Im saying is a good toss won't lose if he scouts this and prepares which is how it should be. No more "WTF I knew it was coming and I still lost" from toss I'm afraid.

However if you manage to "trick" ur oponent into thinking you are going 2rax of FE then this build will work alot better, but if you wanna be that kind of player then thats up to you.
gg no re
AfricanPsycho
Profile Joined December 2011
South Africa158 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-02 11:24:04
February 02 2012 11:20 GMT
#99
On September 01 2011 13:33 StimmedProbe wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 31 2011 22:12 michaelhasanalias wrote:
On August 24 2011 18:59 StimmedProbe wrote:
On August 24 2011 18:51 DaemonX wrote:
On August 24 2011 16:19 StimmedProbe wrote:
On August 24 2011 09:12 MMXMoto-X17 wrote:
This is one of the best Tvp guides I ever read. Very well written to, Nice! I'm only gold but after practicing this build a few times I'm starting to beat platinum and even low diamond protoss. I'm finding this strategy even works vs zerg, or at least the gold/platinum zergs I play vs.

But I have a question, what do I do vs warp prism harass? This protoss dropped 4 zealots in my main as soon as I moved out, and I was forced to retreat and defend. He then did this happened again, etc. I ended up losing the game because he got 2 colosuses out by the time I got to his base.

thanks


If he drops 4 zealots in your main you just take your army + all your base scvs and go kill him. Lift your CC towards your army, and pump out one last round of units from your rax/fact/starport, then lift those too towards your army. If they invest 600 in 4zealots/warp prism they will have much less stuff at home to deal with your push.

With all respect, this is not valid in masters Stimmed. 4-zeal warp prism - or more likely, hidden-pylon-and-he-just-runs-them-over-to-your-ramp-zeals don't invest enough that a good player that isn't losing too much stuff will let you break in suddenly. He can force a base-swap with very little investment indeed sometimes, leaving you in a very uncomfortable position.

The best example I can think of is a protoss that forced a lift-off with zealot warp ins into my main (he had a probe and observer out on the map when I established contain, did a low-ground pylon warp-in), and had a single voidray that took out my Orbital and barracks on-route! I was forced to try and crack him and ended up pushing into 3 colossi which picked off all my marines. I wasn't dead but neither was I mining - nasty game. I'll try and dig up the replay.



Just for reference, I'm in grandmasters =] Anyways at the highest level of play if you waste 600 minerals on an attack that doesn't do much, you will lose. In addition that warp prism eats up robo build time. The first hellion should poke around for these pylons anyways.

I have never had problems with 4 zealot drops with this build. Yes it is extremely annoying to get 4 zealot dropped, but you just simply send all your scvs now instead of just 12-16 of them. It's sorta how in TvZ, if 20+ mutas keep poking your base, you just say 'ok i've had it, and take your whole army and march across the map and force him to come back to defend your push'.

edit: Terran's almost always win base trades btw =]


I'm sorry if I'm trolling, but could you tell me what server you're grandmasters? All your replays are from SEA, but you have played 5 games total on that account, and I can't find you anywhere else.

http://www.sc2ranks.com/sea/345523/stimFatal/season/2

this is an account from your previous million man march thread that hasn't been played since april, and only has 100 ladder wins on it.
http://sea.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/180372/1/StimmedProbe/achievements/category/4325378

I bring this up because I've talked to a few of my practice partners about this build before (as well as your last guide), and they don't feel like it's a legitimate strategy beyond maybe low masters. When you throw around the term "grandmaster" it means you know what you are doing and people should listen. In logical reasoning terminology, it's known as an appeal to authority--that we should believe you because you're a high level player.

However, this isn't a build you've refined in ladder play (and if it is, you haven't posted any of those replays), and I don't see any evidence that you've ever been in GM league on any server. If I'm gravely mistaken then I sincerely do apologize for calling you out, but if indeed you aren't, I hope that you'll stop trying to mislead lower players into working on a build like this that many people have already stated is not very solid at higher level play. (here's a list of the current GM rankings on SEA http://www.playxp.com/sc2/ladder/1v1/sea.php )

And even that's okay, but please don't hype it to be some unbeatable build when it is untested and many good terran players openly disagree and have already left their comments in this thread.


I recently got sponsored so my new name is CGFatal. Just got it recently so I haven't played too many games on there, but it is in masters. I have a smurf account which is in GM on SEA, I get recognized with my StimmedProbe on SEA too easily and ppl stalk me lol... Anyways since I don't wanna tell everyone the smurf name here is some proof for you:

1.) Recently won an HK tournament and I played a guy named inFiRoz 12 times in the tournament and my overall record vs him was 7:5. He is a rank 44 grandmaster. http://www.sc2ranks.com/sea/19519/inFiRoz Below is a highlight video I made of our winners bracket finals.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fBuEuu9pWE

2.) Season 2 promotion picture, the guy I beat in that picture (YoonYJ) was at the time ranked #4 in SEA, currently ranked #39. http://i.imgur.com/6jqhi.jpg

3.) Season 2 sc2ranks.com SEA server grandmaster stats sorted by winrate. 75%, behind moonglade who had 82%. My MMR had me constantly matched against the top 50 players in the region. http://i.imgur.com/WLS63.jpg

4.) April 12th, a TL user named Requisition posted this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=200525&currentpage=16#312

Hopefully that is enough to prove that I know what I'm talking about. Anyways about build doubts, I have done the build over 35 times, and crushed face with it every time. It was so effective it got boring after awhile to be really honest. Most of the replays were just me microing a bit and overpowering my opponent, or setting up an insane contain which lead to a victory a few minutes later. If the terran knows how to abuse zealot AI with SCVs, you are really really screwed trust me.... esp with a crisp build order like mine... the only times I have lost with this were when I skipped a bunker and got 4gated (greedy).


111 and marine still SCV works at GM even after you play the guy several times, ima go play terran!!!
gg no re
DaemonX
Profile Joined September 2010
545 Posts
February 02 2012 12:05 GMT
#100
On February 02 2012 20:20 AfricanPsycho wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 01 2011 13:33 StimmedProbe wrote:
On August 31 2011 22:12 michaelhasanalias wrote:
On August 24 2011 18:59 StimmedProbe wrote:
On August 24 2011 18:51 DaemonX wrote:
On August 24 2011 16:19 StimmedProbe wrote:
On August 24 2011 09:12 MMXMoto-X17 wrote:
This is one of the best Tvp guides I ever read. Very well written to, Nice! I'm only gold but after practicing this build a few times I'm starting to beat platinum and even low diamond protoss. I'm finding this strategy even works vs zerg, or at least the gold/platinum zergs I play vs.

But I have a question, what do I do vs warp prism harass? This protoss dropped 4 zealots in my main as soon as I moved out, and I was forced to retreat and defend. He then did this happened again, etc. I ended up losing the game because he got 2 colosuses out by the time I got to his base.

thanks


If he drops 4 zealots in your main you just take your army + all your base scvs and go kill him. Lift your CC towards your army, and pump out one last round of units from your rax/fact/starport, then lift those too towards your army. If they invest 600 in 4zealots/warp prism they will have much less stuff at home to deal with your push.

With all respect, this is not valid in masters Stimmed. 4-zeal warp prism - or more likely, hidden-pylon-and-he-just-runs-them-over-to-your-ramp-zeals don't invest enough that a good player that isn't losing too much stuff will let you break in suddenly. He can force a base-swap with very little investment indeed sometimes, leaving you in a very uncomfortable position.

The best example I can think of is a protoss that forced a lift-off with zealot warp ins into my main (he had a probe and observer out on the map when I established contain, did a low-ground pylon warp-in), and had a single voidray that took out my Orbital and barracks on-route! I was forced to try and crack him and ended up pushing into 3 colossi which picked off all my marines. I wasn't dead but neither was I mining - nasty game. I'll try and dig up the replay.



Just for reference, I'm in grandmasters =] Anyways at the highest level of play if you waste 600 minerals on an attack that doesn't do much, you will lose. In addition that warp prism eats up robo build time. The first hellion should poke around for these pylons anyways.

I have never had problems with 4 zealot drops with this build. Yes it is extremely annoying to get 4 zealot dropped, but you just simply send all your scvs now instead of just 12-16 of them. It's sorta how in TvZ, if 20+ mutas keep poking your base, you just say 'ok i've had it, and take your whole army and march across the map and force him to come back to defend your push'.

edit: Terran's almost always win base trades btw =]


I'm sorry if I'm trolling, but could you tell me what server you're grandmasters? All your replays are from SEA, but you have played 5 games total on that account, and I can't find you anywhere else.

http://www.sc2ranks.com/sea/345523/stimFatal/season/2

this is an account from your previous million man march thread that hasn't been played since april, and only has 100 ladder wins on it.
http://sea.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/180372/1/StimmedProbe/achievements/category/4325378

I bring this up because I've talked to a few of my practice partners about this build before (as well as your last guide), and they don't feel like it's a legitimate strategy beyond maybe low masters. When you throw around the term "grandmaster" it means you know what you are doing and people should listen. In logical reasoning terminology, it's known as an appeal to authority--that we should believe you because you're a high level player.

However, this isn't a build you've refined in ladder play (and if it is, you haven't posted any of those replays), and I don't see any evidence that you've ever been in GM league on any server. If I'm gravely mistaken then I sincerely do apologize for calling you out, but if indeed you aren't, I hope that you'll stop trying to mislead lower players into working on a build like this that many people have already stated is not very solid at higher level play. (here's a list of the current GM rankings on SEA http://www.playxp.com/sc2/ladder/1v1/sea.php )

And even that's okay, but please don't hype it to be some unbeatable build when it is untested and many good terran players openly disagree and have already left their comments in this thread.


I recently got sponsored so my new name is CGFatal. Just got it recently so I haven't played too many games on there, but it is in masters. I have a smurf account which is in GM on SEA, I get recognized with my StimmedProbe on SEA too easily and ppl stalk me lol... Anyways since I don't wanna tell everyone the smurf name here is some proof for you:

1.) Recently won an HK tournament and I played a guy named inFiRoz 12 times in the tournament and my overall record vs him was 7:5. He is a rank 44 grandmaster. http://www.sc2ranks.com/sea/19519/inFiRoz Below is a highlight video I made of our winners bracket finals.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fBuEuu9pWE

2.) Season 2 promotion picture, the guy I beat in that picture (YoonYJ) was at the time ranked #4 in SEA, currently ranked #39. http://i.imgur.com/6jqhi.jpg

3.) Season 2 sc2ranks.com SEA server grandmaster stats sorted by winrate. 75%, behind moonglade who had 82%. My MMR had me constantly matched against the top 50 players in the region. http://i.imgur.com/WLS63.jpg

4.) April 12th, a TL user named Requisition posted this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=200525&currentpage=16#312

Hopefully that is enough to prove that I know what I'm talking about. Anyways about build doubts, I have done the build over 35 times, and crushed face with it every time. It was so effective it got boring after awhile to be really honest. Most of the replays were just me microing a bit and overpowering my opponent, or setting up an insane contain which lead to a victory a few minutes later. If the terran knows how to abuse zealot AI with SCVs, you are really really screwed trust me.... esp with a crisp build order like mine... the only times I have lost with this were when I skipped a bunker and got 4gated (greedy).


111 and marine still SCV works at GM even after you play the guy several times, ima go play terran!!!

Um he didn't the same build several times. The 3 rax cheese was a one-off, the 1-1-1 all-in was a one-off, the others were all strange cool mech variants or 2-base 1-1-1. What exactly is your point?
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