EPTEDIT: I found this build (http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/3Rax_Stim) on Liquipedia, what do you guys think of it? I'll try it in custom games.
The Terran Help Me Thread - Page 56
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Carlotto
France49 Posts
EDIT: I found this build (http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/3Rax_Stim) on Liquipedia, what do you guys think of it? I'll try it in custom games. | ||
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zmansman17
United States2567 Posts
On November 02 2011 00:27 Carlotto wrote: I am high platinum (hoping to get to diamond pretty soon) and I'd like to know a TvT all-in (very aggressive at least) that would work on Xel Naga Caverns. Like a marine or marauder all in maybe? I'm not too much into cloaked banshees. Honestly there are not any really good TvT all ins. Please don't resort to 3 rax, as this will never work against a good player in TvT. However, a 1 base marine, tank, banshee build is sometimes used as an effective all in and may work on Xel Naga. I would use this to get stuff done. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25557 Posts
On November 01 2011 03:42 BONE wrote: I'm interested in this as well, I mech against Zerg, because I am TERRIBLE at Tank Marine against zerg. I normally start with 3 and move to 5 but I wonder what others do. Usually when going full mech on 2 bases I have 3 factories: 1 reactor, 2 tech lab. This lets me spend my resources at a fair rate and leaves breathing room for expanding, upgrades starport, etc. On November 01 2011 10:15 Finnz wrote: im having trouble with EMP'ing against protoss when they go for an Archon/chargelot/HT/Collosus mix. Im a Platinum terran and i find it really difficult to control my ghosts against a protoss army when i go into an engagement. Lots of protoss players say that you need to EMP the high templar's but they are always at the back of the army. How should i position my ghost in engagements and how do i get those all and important HT? Feel free to hold back some EMPs-- sure, throw some down on the archons, and get one off of the chargelots, and if you clip the colossi in the process that's fine-- but in general cower your ghosts in your bioball and wait for the HTs to get closer. Don't EMP on the HTs-- EMP a little ahead of them, and let the large radius of the EMP grab them-- it extends 2 units past the center, giving you a range advantage. On November 02 2011 00:30 zmansman17 wrote: Honestly there are not any really good TvT all ins. Please don't resort to 3 rax, as this will never work against a good player in TvT. However, a 1 base marine, tank, banshee build is sometimes used as an effective all in and may work on Xel Naga. I would use this to get stuff done. I agree with Big Z here. Due to strong defender's advantage and the strength of bunkers, as well as the variety of scouting options available, TvT all-ins have sharply limited use, especially those that rely on marines and marauders. Your best bet if you want the game to end quickly is to rush for some sort of game-endingly strong harassment like blue flame hellions or cloaked banshee rush, or to do a quick siege push like was used in the GSL October Finals. On November 01 2011 20:01 Crankenstein wrote: How are you guys dealing with immortal pushes? I reactor first 2 rax and I can hold the Immortals at my ramp with a bunker but If I push out to take my natural I die. I either lose to it straight up or lose to it because I can't take my natural. The only time I have beaten it is because I scouted the robo and double gas so I went 3 rax ghost and managed to emp all the immortals and sentries. The thing Is I feel like going for ghosts on 1 base only works against this immortal play, If it turns out to be a void ray all in instead I feel like I will be at a disadvantage. If you're having trouble flying the CC out against a protoss who's all-inning you due to forcefields, threat of immortals on your bunkers, or whatever reason, bear in mind that the Protoss is all in on one base. If you were able to sneak out a scouting scv or have a unit on the map somewhere, keep an eye on his natural and see when he tries to expand. As long as he keeps on trying to 1-base, it's ok to 1-base with 2 mules-- you're still ahead economically. You can even start oversaturating in anticipation of taking your natural and doing a big maynard. Tech up, take your 2nd gas, and add infrastructure while on 1 base, 2 mules-- after 2 mules, your fast expand will have paid for itself, and the third mule is pure, delicious profit. | ||
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DruidzShift
Sweden71 Posts
So now i wanna have some tips from TL how to learn to drop like MMA.I have some questions. Were and when should i drop? Should i drop whit 2 medivacs or 1? And what should i do if it is 8 spines there when i drop? It would be very nice if you would writa a whole drop tutorial? Hava a good day | ||
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xTrim
472 Posts
On November 02 2011 01:19 TheNoob wrote: I have had some problems in TvZ.90 % of my loses my opponent says that i am no agressive and do not drop.And he is right. So now i wanna have some tips from TL how to learn to drop like MMA.I have some questions. Were and when should i drop? Should i drop whit 2 medivacs or 1? And what should i do if it is 8 spines there when i drop? It would be very nice if you would writa a whole drop tutorial? Hava a good day You had a good answer in your older post: First of all it has to be safe to drop. If your opponent does not have mutas on the map you should drop like crazy, but when there mutas on the field you can´t drop. In this szenario just go to a big attack and defend from Muta herrass. The key is constant Marine and Medivac production so that you can drop when the time comes. You also should start your Marines attack Upgrades really soon in the match, beacuse +3 attack Marines kill Spinecrawler really fast. You can also drop when you move out to distract the zerg. For example If you move out to the right, drop to the left and force some units of the Zerg to stay away from your army, so that you can get in a good position. If your opponent has Infestor + Broodlords it is a really good timing to drop, because he needs to have his army clumbed to be effective. Dropping is very situanional as you see and there are many different reasons to drop, but that you have to figure out by yourself or post us some replays with your analysis, so that we can help you. The key to drop at multiple angels and move out with the army is to not focus on the drop! Just give the unload command somwhere near a Zerg expand and when it lands stim and don´t pay attention to it anymore. | ||
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z0mghii
United States15 Posts
On November 02 2011 01:19 TheNoob wrote: I have had some problems in TvZ.90 % of my loses my opponent says that i am no agressive and do not drop.And he is right. So now i wanna have some tips from TL how to learn to drop like MMA.I have some questions. Were and when should i drop? Should i drop whit 2 medivacs or 1? And what should i do if it is 8 spines there when i drop? It would be very nice if you would writa a whole drop tutorial? Hava a good day http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=274004 Very good guide for standard TvZ play. Basically, you want to have 4 hellions for map control until 10 minute mark where you can do a big push with about 20 marines and 3 siege tanks. If there are 8 spines, drop somewhere else.. Have 2 medivacs drop at 2 different places at once while pressuring your main army is the best. | ||
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GTPGlitch
5061 Posts
On November 02 2011 00:27 Carlotto wrote: I am high platinum (hoping to get to diamond pretty soon) and I'd like to know a TvT all-in (very aggressive at least) that would work on Xel Naga Caverns. Like a marine or marauder all in maybe? I'm not too much into cloaked banshees. EDIT: I found this build (http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/3Rax_Stim) on Liquipedia, what do you guys think of it? I'll try it in custom games. If you can, watch the GSL finals@Blizzcon, G1 is a nice proxy rax/fact/rax reactor marine/siege tank with floating 2nd rax for spotting. I use it a lot (in plat aswell) on shakuras because they are quite definitely on one side of the map. Haven't tried it on XNC (vetoed T_T ) but it should work well | ||
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xTrim
472 Posts
Go for the nexus or just walk into his base? also, what if scouted last in big maps?? 1 rax gasless FE puts cc much later than nexus first... whats the proper followup? | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25557 Posts
On November 02 2011 01:56 xTrim wrote: gasless 1 rax into 3 rax scv all in vs Nexus first if scouted?? Go for the nexus or just walk into his base? also, what if scouted last in big maps?? 1 rax gasless FE puts cc much later than nexus first... whats the proper followup? Go into his base, imo-- you've already pulled scvs, so you might as well attack. There's no real point in attacking the nexus-- he doesn't need it to be ahead of you economically, he just need to survive. Hypothetically, if you killed the nexus then returned home, you'd still be behind economically due last mining time. Killing his natural is not a win condition for 3 rax marine scv allin. If you scout him last on a big map, you could try some light bunker pressure, but unless it's right before you slap down your CC and instead do a 6rax allin, you'll have to live with being slightly economically behind. You'll be ahead in tech, though, for what it's worth-- you could try to leverage that with early concussive pressure or something. | ||
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Carlotto
France49 Posts
On November 02 2011 00:30 zmansman17 wrote: Honestly there are not any really good TvT all ins. Please don't resort to 3 rax, as this will never work against a good player in TvT. However, a 1 base marine, tank, banshee build is sometimes used as an effective all in and may work on Xel Naga. I would use this to get stuff done. On November 02 2011 01:28 Active.815 wrote: If you can, watch the GSL finals@Blizzcon, G1 is a nice proxy rax/fact/rax reactor marine/siege tank with floating 2nd rax for spotting. I use it a lot (in plat aswell) on shakuras because they are quite definitely on one side of the map. Haven't tried it on XNC (vetoed T_T ) but it should work well Ok thanks to you both, I’ll try the 1/1/1 and watch the GSL finals (which I haven’t since I knew the results  ) | ||
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HwangjaeTerran
Finland5967 Posts
I seem to be losing archons and chargelots 100% regardless of the lead I feel I have. It's starting to get annoying with these smug tosses just sitting in front of their 2 bases waiting for me to try and do something. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25557 Posts
On November 02 2011 02:39 HwangjaeTerran wrote: What am I supposed to do against chargelots and archons and dark templars and high templars and colossi? I seem to be losing archons and chargelots 100% regardless of the lead I feel I have. It's starting to get annoying with these smug tosses just sitting in front of their 2 bases waiting for me to try and do something. Assuming you're going for a Bio style of play, if you can get a few ghosts out, they work wonders against templar tech with their EMPs, though they are sharply limited in their effectiveness against colossus-- you'll want to make vikings if you see protoss making more than 1-2 colossi. Ghosts will also be useful against zealots and sentries, and the EMP provides emergency detection against DTs. | ||
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KenDM
Netherlands206 Posts
On November 02 2011 02:48 Blazinghand wrote: Assuming you're going for a Bio style of play, if you can get a few ghosts out, they work wonders against templar tech with their EMPs, though they are sharply limited in their effectiveness against colossus-- you'll want to make vikings if you see protoss making more than 1-2 colossi. Ghosts will also be useful against zealots and sentries, and the EMP provides emergency detection against DTs. Blazinghand, pleaaaaaaase show us a nice replay of a 1Rax FE against P? Like a nice overview of the build order and scouting/teching hints? A 2Rax FE would be the 2Rax 3Bunkers FE right? | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25557 Posts
On November 02 2011 05:32 KenDM wrote: Blazinghand, pleaaaaaaase show us a nice replay of a 1Rax FE against P? Like a nice overview of the build order and scouting/teching hints? A 2Rax FE would be the 2Rax 3Bunkers FE right? Ok I'll put something together tonight or tomorrow morning about the 1Rax FE. It's a very open-ended build order, though-- a lot of divergent playstyles use the 1 Rax FE to open, in the same way that both an infestor-based and mutalisk-based zerg play could open with 15 hatch 14 pool. There's 2 kinds of 2 Rax FEs, generally:
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SharmonHammer
United States6 Posts
http://www.2shared.com/file/rGqLQYsQ/pvt_vs_tom.html replay link ^^^ | ||
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MysteryHours
United States168 Posts
On November 02 2011 07:50 SharmonHammer wrote: So, today me and a buddy were playing some customs and i was trying to iron out some of my TVP and we had this game, a game where i thought i played fairly well, taking a decent timed 3rd/4th, maxing out pretty quickly and being on par/above on upgrades a lot of the game. We fight when i hit max and i get smacked. I went gasless FE into 3 rax with medivacs, he did some early pressure that i held off and then it just proceeded as normal. I think i should have had more vikings but when the fight came i ran a bunch of ghosts up, EMPd his WHOLE army and then proceeded to stim and engage. Not only did i lose, it seems like i got crushed. I was floating some minerals/gas right before the battle i know, should have macrod a little better adding rax and what not. Any help would be fantastic! http://www.2shared.com/file/rGqLQYsQ/pvt_vs_tom.html replay link ^^^ Right before the engagement, after your ghosts died and he warped in a round of reinforcements, he was up 26 army supply. You did nail the EMPs but it didn't really help that much because you weren't able to get a full on engagement. You didn't have a concave and when you started kiting he got some good forcefields off that made your position even worse. You weren't aggressive enough with your vikings, none of the 4 colossus died even though you had 9 vikings. When he chased you back to your base it looks like you were trying to queue up attacks with your vikings but they ended up flying directly over his stalkers and sentries without actually attacking. Leading up to the engagement you had tons of minerals banked but weren't producing from any of your barracks. Your combat shields were late and didn't finish before the engagement. When you're banking that many minerals throw down some extra orbitals for MULEs and then sacrifice some SCVs to free up army supply. One more thing, drop a 2nd starport once you're on 3+ bases. | ||
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KenDM
Netherlands206 Posts
On November 02 2011 05:43 Blazinghand wrote: Ok I'll put something together tonight or tomorrow morning about the 1Rax FE. It's a very open-ended build order, though-- a lot of divergent playstyles use the 1 Rax FE to open, in the same way that both an infestor-based and mutalisk-based zerg play could open with 15 hatch 14 pool. There's 2 kinds of 2 Rax FEs, generally:
I did read these builds through, but it would be nice to see them in action (even against AI) because I just don't understand certain things. I'm not sure when the initial push is, with how many units etc etc? Does anyone have replays of both variants of 2Rax FE in TvP? | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25557 Posts
Alright guys here's deal: post a replay of you losing to something in this thread, along with your own analysis, and I'll make a 10-15 minute coaching video in which I go over your replay, along with some written notes. I'm sick, which is the reason this is pretty delayed. On deck today is Isaac, Combro1, and Wooshio. On October 28 2011 13:53 Isaac wrote: I am not good on my micro tvz and i don't know how to improve it - i feel its causing me losses. I get picked apart even when I feel my macro is pretty good. - Basically I went for a cc first into a 4 barracks push, i came out ahead (kinda)- but i see most grandmasters just win. but then I went to go kill creep and i lose my army. oh OK, ill just defend and get another, then I am unable to move out and I feel that if I had good micro i would win. how can i use macro to my advantage as terran???(v zerg) e; didn't realize replay wasn't working re upload: http://drop.sc/49872 Hi Isaac, I took a look at your replay and made an analysis VoD: Stream VoD Link (twitch.tv): http://www.twitch.tv/blazinghand/b/298849116 Embedded Video Link (youtube): + Show Spoiler + http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87z4H7W6VlY Some non-comprehensive written notes: use subsuquent rax and depots to wall on the low-ground to defend natural backing up against a wall gets you raped not dodging at all also gets you raped (by banelings) if you want to avoid micro-heavy splitting situations, incorporate tanks. 1) avoid walls; always be able to retreat 2) after stimming, grab only marines only, and back them up 3) goal: banelings hit marauders, not marines 4) practice splitting marines using a micro trainer On October 26 2011 08:18 ComBro1 wrote: Hey blazinghand, I am a high diamond player and could use some advice. In this recent TvT, I played against my korean friend and went marine tank, as he went mech. It is pretty obvious where I lost any reasonable shot of winning ( at 15 minutes), but I was wondering if there was anything more subtle you could find, like any macro problems or decision making that could be improved. Thanks, Combro http://www.sc2replayed.com/replay-videos/14652 Hi ComBro1, I took a look at your replay and made an analysis VoD: Stream VoD Link (twitch.tv): http://www.twitch.tv/blazinghand/b/298849227 Embedded Video Link (youtube): + Show Spoiler + http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27d2A5yBK38 Some non-comprehensive written notes: Macro: he was ahead in workers, which was bad, but then he overproduced them you needed to make your workers more quickly Air control: TvT is about air control. He outproduced you interms of vikings (you didnt really have any) meaning you couldn't circumvent his tank line with drops. It also meant you couldn't move forward from the tower. Map Control: TvT is also about map control. you had this. when you have map control, benefit from it by taking expansions. obviously, don't a-move into tank lines. use your soft contain to get AHEAD in bases. Original Message From Wooshio: There it is man. I am having problems holding off one base pushes in tvt's (lose often with them). I like this build that I do (copied it from Goody) since I basically just do mech so Goody is my hero. What do you think of this opening? Is there a better "safe" build? My in game name is Zapmaster. Thanks. Hi Wooshio, I took a look at your replay and made an analysis VoD: Stream VoD Link (twitch.tv): http://www.twitch.tv/blazinghand/b/298849296 then http://www.twitch.tv/blazinghand/b/298849579 Embedded Video Link (youtube): + Show Spoiler + http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpWwgpSMYgA Some non-comprehensive written notes: at 6:30, don't get a 3rd mule-- scan your opponent's main if you were unable to scout. This will let you know what's coming. Hellion scout at 7:30 --> no expo. PREPARE FOR THE ALL-IN??? or harass. It's a late expo, and the late expansion is doing something --> 2 reactor marines? where's his gas going? During the Final Battle you got caught unsieged-- to avoid this, walk 1 marine about 6-7 squares in front of your army. this will let you get sieged up instantly. use a hellion if you're going mech. your'e banking 1.4k minerals. this could instead be hella marines and hellions (at 10:45) 2 problems, fixing either of them would save you 1) getting caught unsieged 2) banking 1k+ minerals Hope this helps. I'm sick, which is the reason this is pretty delayed. I'm aware that I haven't responded to anyone who posted a replay in the last day or so-- sorry guys, I'll see what I can do to catch up. Steemdrice, I generally only look at replays in which someone has lost if they're asking for help-- it's hard to identify what's a game-losing mistake and what's not in a winning replay. Until next time, leep on getting better, fellow Terrans! <3 | ||
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Wardi
England897 Posts
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Peanut Butter
Canada155 Posts
On November 03 2011 03:50 Wardi wrote: I'm a (high) gold Terran, facing gold/plat opponents. I struggle in TvT specifically, I never really know a good build order to use and often just lose to the opponent seiging outside of my base and also elevatoring into my main (on maps such as metalopolis). How can I deal with this? A replay would be good. This is dependant; Does he rush siege tanks and then siege outside your base or does he transition into it? The only general advice I can give you is that a major component of TvT is air control; Siege tanks can shoot outside their vision range, and vikings are an excellent way to get vision. Once you have air control you can start walking your tanks forward and picking his off. Just don't be too risky, as he can always scan. | ||
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2 Rax 3 Bunker FE
