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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. |
On October 21 2011 09:26 zmansman17 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2011 03:32 Blazinghand wrote:On October 21 2011 03:06 zmansman17 wrote:
Interesting perspective nad I appreciate the post. You are right 2 base all ins must be take seriously and Terran will die if not preparing accordingly. However, just because you make a fast 3rd after spottign 1 gate FE does not mean you will die (unless of course you make some very poor decision following the 3rd).
Basically within 2 mule drops of that 3rd OC, it more than pays for itself, and that is the logic of it. Even if you make no workers, it pays for itself in the lifespan of 2 mules. But more importantly, it offers longevity to your 2 base since you could theoretically drop all of your mules there. (Granted, the most experienced players among us would notice if ALL mules were dropped somehwere else, thus suspecting a 3rd, but not even the best players would know if MOST were dropped at the 3rd, since there is never constant vision of both mineral lines for the Toss player).
/////
I personally find that there is nothing wrong with dropping a bunch of bunkers. If you do take a fast third in response to 1 gate FE, you know more or less when the Toss can all in you. It's going to happen around the 9 minute marker. Therefore, drop 4 bunkers, have stim up, medivac tech, and vikings prepared.
I've been hit by 6 gate timing attacks as early as 8:00. That being said, you have to take a very, very fast 3rd OC for it to pay for itself in time. An OC takes 135 seconds to make-- you immediately get to call down a mule, and 90 seconds later, it's earned you 270 minerals. you call down then 2nd mule, and 90 seconds later, it's earned you 270 minerals also, meaning the OC has paid for itself. This amount of time is 135+90+90=315 seconds. 5 minutes. That opens a pretty large timing window for the protoss player to attack you. If you want to be recovered from the OC in time for his attack (lets say he attacks a bit more slowly, at 9:00) you need to start building your 3rd command center at 4:00.Put in perspective, a 1 rax no-gas fast expand gets a 2nd command center at 3:15. A "safe" 1 gate FE expos a little later than that, usually around 4:10 (since you're getting an assimilator and a cybernetics core before nexus), and a risky 1 gate FE expos at about the same time. I'm not sure it's actually viable to make a 3rd CC, turn it into an OC, and calldown and benefit from 2 mules to pay for it before a 2 base all in comes. The 3rd OC is the best response imo, as I outlined above. No Toss is going to all in you @ 8:00 minutes after dropping an FE, the army would be much weaker, albeit an unusual timing. After all, the best Terrans including Demuslim and Kas do exactly what I am describing when they spot a 1 gate FE. They drop a 3rd OC and make the necessary preparations to defend. Again, if you are a more hesitant, safe player, then perhaps you should stay on 2 base with the Toss. Knowing what I know at my level, I must stay ahead of the Toss in macro as best I can to win. Therefore, I take a calculated risk to get ahead.
Would you mind if you posted a couple replays? It would help a lot i think.
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On October 15 2011 13:42 MaximusMInd wrote:
Hey
I am currently a terran in high diamond having problems transitioning from the Reactor Hellion Expand.
10 Supply
12 Rax
13 Gas
15 OC
1 Marine
Supply
Factory @ 100 Gas
Reactor @ 50 Gas
@100 minerals bunker
@400 CC
Switch factory onto rax and build 4 hellions and a supply depot.
Harass and scout
.. then my problems start
1. What is the standard transition if you cannot make it into the main and scout (normally I make a factory and rax with tech lab to research stim and seige but it doesn't work out and my star port timing varies)?
2. If you see mass queens what is the best transition?
3. If you see double evo chamber what is the best transition?
4. Are there any other inferences you can make based on number of gases or quick lair timing and are there any specific transitions to any of these builds....?
5. When are good times to scout using scans or drops such as for lair timing hive timing, greater spire timing?
If you are a Terran in Master league can you please help me?
Thanks,
I started doing the exact same opening recently. Its been my experience that reactor hellions tend to force one of three responses. 1. Mass Roach 2. Mass crawlers into Infestor 3. Mass Queen into really fast Mutas. So I think the best way to transition is to go pure mech by building a second factory with a tech lab. Roaches are the earliest threat so you need those tanks asap. You can't afford Banshees fast enough, and although Marauders are great vs Roaches they suck vs everything else.
Basically after that opeing I go:
1. Factory with tech lab: Tank, Tank, Siege Mode, Tank
2. Ebay+Armory, start +1 Vehicle Attack asap, 2 turrets per mineral line
3. Tripple gas
4. 2 more Factories with tech labs. Get Blueflame. Pure Thor production until Thor count=Tank count. Hellions when gas run dry. Start +2 Vehicle Weapons as you move out.
5. Push with 3-4 Tanks, 2-3 Thors, tons of Hellions, and 8-16 autorepairing SCVs. Expand or allin from there.
I cant stress enough the importance of bringing SCVs with the push. Mass magic box Muta is gg unless you correctly repair micro your Thors.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On October 21 2011 09:26 zmansman17 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2011 03:32 Blazinghand wrote:On October 21 2011 03:06 zmansman17 wrote:
Interesting perspective nad I appreciate the post. You are right 2 base all ins must be take seriously and Terran will die if not preparing accordingly. However, just because you make a fast 3rd after spottign 1 gate FE does not mean you will die (unless of course you make some very poor decision following the 3rd).
Basically within 2 mule drops of that 3rd OC, it more than pays for itself, and that is the logic of it. Even if you make no workers, it pays for itself in the lifespan of 2 mules. But more importantly, it offers longevity to your 2 base since you could theoretically drop all of your mules there. (Granted, the most experienced players among us would notice if ALL mules were dropped somehwere else, thus suspecting a 3rd, but not even the best players would know if MOST were dropped at the 3rd, since there is never constant vision of both mineral lines for the Toss player).
/////
I personally find that there is nothing wrong with dropping a bunch of bunkers. If you do take a fast third in response to 1 gate FE, you know more or less when the Toss can all in you. It's going to happen around the 9 minute marker. Therefore, drop 4 bunkers, have stim up, medivac tech, and vikings prepared.
I've been hit by 6 gate timing attacks as early as 8:00. That being said, you have to take a very, very fast 3rd OC for it to pay for itself in time. An OC takes 135 seconds to make-- you immediately get to call down a mule, and 90 seconds later, it's earned you 270 minerals. you call down then 2nd mule, and 90 seconds later, it's earned you 270 minerals also, meaning the OC has paid for itself. This amount of time is 135+90+90=315 seconds. 5 minutes. That opens a pretty large timing window for the protoss player to attack you. If you want to be recovered from the OC in time for his attack (lets say he attacks a bit more slowly, at 9:00) you need to start building your 3rd command center at 4:00.Put in perspective, a 1 rax no-gas fast expand gets a 2nd command center at 3:15. A "safe" 1 gate FE expos a little later than that, usually around 4:10 (since you're getting an assimilator and a cybernetics core before nexus), and a risky 1 gate FE expos at about the same time. I'm not sure it's actually viable to make a 3rd CC, turn it into an OC, and calldown and benefit from 2 mules to pay for it before a 2 base all in comes. The 3rd OC is the best response imo, as I outlined above. No Toss is going to all in you @ 8:00 minutes after dropping an FE, the army would be much weaker, albeit an unusual timing. After all, the best Terrans including Demuslim and Kas do exactly what I am describing when they spot a 1 gate FE. They drop a 3rd OC and make the necessary preparations to defend. Again, if you are a more hesitant, safe player, then perhaps you should stay on 2 base with the Toss. Knowing what I know at my level, I must stay ahead of the Toss in macro as best I can to win. Therefore, I take a calculated risk to get ahead.
Note that I actually said 9:00, not 8:00, in the post you quoted, but I'll be generous and split the difference. Watch and learn the power of a 6 gate; even *I*, a terran player, can execute this. This is my strat:
1) Search TL Forums for "HuK" and "FE"
2) Select build order with HuK's name in it because he is a baller: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=223726
3) Follow BO, then make up to 6 gates
NOTE: I literally have never 6gated before in my life before playing these two games. I do not play protoss. I'm sure that this could be executed better by someone of my skill who mains Protoss.
First try: 10 zealots, 5 stalkers, 4 sentries at 8:30 [38 food of combat units]
Heh, yeah. Got supply blocked just as my gates came up, like a boss.
http://drop.sc/46124
Second try: 8 zealots, 11 stalkers, 1 sentry at 8:30 [40 food of combat units]
Fewer sentries this game because I forgot my 2nd gas ._.
http://drop.sc/46125
I'm sure a better player than myself could bring about a stronger all in-- I get supply blocked in both of these games, and I'm sure I could do things better. But this sort of 2-base all-in is deadly. Sometimes you see it with 5 gates 1 robo instead of 6 gates, as well, using either a warp prism for reinforcements or immortals to beat down bunkers. This push can't really hit THAT much faster (you only have like 30ish food of army at 8:00) but remains viable for the next couple of warpin cycles. Also, I'm sure there's better compositional choices than the exact mix of zealots stalkers and sentries I made-- I'm just making a point.
If you're not ready for a 6 gate all in at 8:30, you're going to lose some ladder games. It's unfeasible to take a third quick enough to profit from it (since it takes 5 minutes from start of CC production for an OC to pay for itself) so you need to scout and see if this sort of thing is coming, rather than blindly ninja expanding. At my level, my opponents are constantly probing for any sign of weakness, and builds LIKE this one (usually with a robo instead of a 6th gate-- and an observer to scout) are common.
Scouting, reacting, and taking a 3rd when you have map control is the best move, IMO. Toss is totally able to all in you at 8:30 after dropping an FE, in a sub-optimally economical one like HuK's (generally considered the "safest" 1 gate FE). The army is strong, and it's a usual timing.
The best terrans including SeleCT and all the Korean Terrans only take a quick third via enormous exercise of map control and scouting. They make the necessary preprations to defend and THEN make a 3rd OC.
Again, if you are a reckless, risky player, then perhaps you should take the quick third against toss. Knowing what I know at my level, I must stay safe against the Toss in order to safely macro as best I can to win. Therefore, I outmacro without taking careless risks.
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On October 19 2011 06:16 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2011 05:49 ChroMaTe_ wrote:
I guess my questions are:
Is there a single BO per matchup that I can work on so I'm not clutching at straws in 2/3 of the matchups?
I've noticed the defensive style of Terran against Muta Zerg, and the turtling that Terran is capable, however that leaves me in the mindset that the Zerg is capable of taking the whole map and getting a ridiculous economy up without any pressure. How do you pressure the Zerg when Mutas are out?
Lastly, when it comes to tank wars in TvT, what's a good way to break the siege line? I've heard make Ghosts and defensive nukes, but then how many do I make? I would imagine investing too heavily on them is not smart as they serve no useful purpose after the siege line is broken. Once he unsieges do I stim and run in? Do I make more Marines than Marauders? How many factories should I be using on 2 bases? 3 bases?
Thanks. :D Welcome to playing Terran! I hope you stay a while and enjoy the race. In TvZ I use the  Reactor Hellion Expand (vs. Zerg)This build provides early map control, a fast expansion, and allows for a comfortable transition into a marine/tank midgame. In TvP I use the SeleCT 2 Rax Expand (vs. Protoss)This build provides early pressure, build order win against some greedy protoss expos, a safe expansion, and a comfortable transition into a bio midgame. In TvT I open with a + Show Spoiler [1 gas 1-1-1 TvT] +
10 depot
12 barracks -> constant marine production
13 refinery -> 3 on gas
15 OC
@ 100 gas: Factory
@ factory completion: starport
Either make constant hellions from the factory and a medivac from the starport for a 4-hellion scouting/harassing drop, or make a tech lab on the factory, then swap to starport for banshee production. This is safe because it's a 1-1-1 and it's the only 1-base starport rush that isn't all in. You won't be able to afford cloak, or really even siege mode or anything, but you'll have all the tech you need to defend any all in, and because you're just on 1 gas you can expo at a reasonable speed.
Pressuring a Muta Zerg:Use marine drops to control his mutalisk position. If you drop his third or whatever, he needs to use lair tech units like hydras, mutas, or infestors to defend because otherwise you can just fly away. Use drops to get his mutas out of position, and use that opportunity to move your army up. Fighting Tanks:How to fight tanks depends on your composition and what part of the game you're in. In early tank fights, having more vikings than your adversary means he can't get vision of your tanks; this Air Control lets you siege up in range of him and begin shelling before he realizes what's happened. If you get contained, you should use vikings to clear out his spotting units, then either use them to spot for your own units or make a banshee to ward his tanks away (if he's not making marines). Dropships can also get around tank lines in the mid-map; if you're going bio heavy, drop his production facilities and kill addons, depots, factories. If he's spamming turrets (but not vikings) you can still drop him using 2-3 Point Defense Drones to create a force a landing zone in his turret line for your medivacs to get in.
Sick advice man thanks, I'll try it out :D
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On October 21 2011 03:32 Blazinghand wrote:
I've been hit by 6 gate timing attacks as early as 8:00.
Am I missing something? I'm responding to this first line in your previous post :/
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On October 21 2011 14:06 zmansman17 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2011 03:32 Blazinghand wrote:
I've been hit by 6 gate timing attacks as early as 8:00. Am I missing something? I'm responding to this first line in your previous post :/
Ah-- well, when you get the chance, read past the first line. If you check out the 2nd paragraph, with the boldfaced sentences, you'll find my rebuttal is specifically framed in terms of a 9:00 push. I decided to go with 8:30 for the purposes of my replays.
But semantics aside: Does your quick 3rd build have a response to the 6 gate all ins that I posted?
On October 21 2011 12:20 ChroMaTe_ wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2011 06:16 Blazinghand wrote:On October 19 2011 05:49 ChroMaTe_ wrote:
I guess my questions are:
Is there a single BO per matchup that I can work on so I'm not clutching at straws in 2/3 of the matchups?
I've noticed the defensive style of Terran against Muta Zerg, and the turtling that Terran is capable, however that leaves me in the mindset that the Zerg is capable of taking the whole map and getting a ridiculous economy up without any pressure. How do you pressure the Zerg when Mutas are out?
Lastly, when it comes to tank wars in TvT, what's a good way to break the siege line? I've heard make Ghosts and defensive nukes, but then how many do I make? I would imagine investing too heavily on them is not smart as they serve no useful purpose after the siege line is broken. Once he unsieges do I stim and run in? Do I make more Marines than Marauders? How many factories should I be using on 2 bases? 3 bases?
Thanks. :D Welcome to playing Terran! I hope you stay a while and enjoy the race. In TvZ I use the Reactor Hellion Expand (vs. Zerg)This build provides early map control, a fast expansion, and allows for a comfortable transition into a marine/tank midgame. In TvP I use the SeleCT 2 Rax Expand (vs. Protoss)This build provides early pressure, build order win against some greedy protoss expos, a safe expansion, and a comfortable transition into a bio midgame. In TvT I open with a + Show Spoiler [1 gas 1-1-1 TvT] +
10 depot
12 barracks -> constant marine production
13 refinery -> 3 on gas
15 OC
@ 100 gas: Factory
@ factory completion: starport
Either make constant hellions from the factory and a medivac from the starport for a 4-hellion scouting/harassing drop, or make a tech lab on the factory, then swap to starport for banshee production. This is safe because it's a 1-1-1 and it's the only 1-base starport rush that isn't all in. You won't be able to afford cloak, or really even siege mode or anything, but you'll have all the tech you need to defend any all in, and because you're just on 1 gas you can expo at a reasonable speed.
Pressuring a Muta Zerg:Use marine drops to control his mutalisk position. If you drop his third or whatever, he needs to use lair tech units like hydras, mutas, or infestors to defend because otherwise you can just fly away. Use drops to get his mutas out of position, and use that opportunity to move your army up. Fighting Tanks:How to fight tanks depends on your composition and what part of the game you're in. In early tank fights, having more vikings than your adversary means he can't get vision of your tanks; this Air Control lets you siege up in range of him and begin shelling before he realizes what's happened. If you get contained, you should use vikings to clear out his spotting units, then either use them to spot for your own units or make a banshee to ward his tanks away (if he's not making marines). Dropships can also get around tank lines in the mid-map; if you're going bio heavy, drop his production facilities and kill addons, depots, factories. If he's spamming turrets (but not vikings) you can still drop him using 2-3 Point Defense Drones to create a force a landing zone in his turret line for your medivacs to get in. Sick advice man thanks, I'll try it out :D
Cool! Feel free to come back with replays, and I'll be glad to take a look at them and help out :D
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On October 21 2011 14:11 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2011 14:06 zmansman17 wrote:On October 21 2011 03:32 Blazinghand wrote:
I've been hit by 6 gate timing attacks as early as 8:00. Am I missing something? I'm responding to this first line in your previous post :/ Ah-- well, when you get the chance, read past the first line. If you check out the 2nd paragraph, with the boldfaced sentences, in which my rebuttal is specifically framed in terms of a 9:00 push. I decided to go with 8:30 for the purposes of my replays. But semantics aside: Does your quick 3rd build have a response to the 6 gate all ins that I posted?
Yes, Ineed more time to respond lol. Well, I wanted to watch your replays but I looked on sc2 ranks instead . I want to note that just because you can do a build at a certain time does not mean it is a good build, only that it is a viable build and that doesn't say much.
This type of timing is very risky for Toss by 8:30 and if it fails can cost them the game. With 3 bunkers on 4 rax worth of production and semi decent repair, I think the Terran ends up ahead. Of course the Toss does hit before stim and this is noteworthy. However, Blze ,I think the real 6 gate pushes come later, as I stated around 9:00 or past.
I'll try to include a few replays just nailed 2 rank 1 Msater toss. And knowing what I know, this is a big deal 
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On October 21 2011 14:14 zmansman17 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2011 14:11 Blazinghand wrote:On October 21 2011 14:06 zmansman17 wrote:On October 21 2011 03:32 Blazinghand wrote:
I've been hit by 6 gate timing attacks as early as 8:00. Am I missing something? I'm responding to this first line in your previous post :/ Ah-- well, when you get the chance, read past the first line. If you check out the 2nd paragraph, with the boldfaced sentences, in which my rebuttal is specifically framed in terms of a 9:00 push. I decided to go with 8:30 for the purposes of my replays. But semantics aside: Does your quick 3rd build have a response to the 6 gate all ins that I posted? Yes, Ineed more time to respond lol. Well, I wanted to watch your replays but I looked on sc2 ranks instead. I want to note that just because you can do a build at a certain time does not mean it is a good build, only that it is a viable build and that doesn't say much. This type of timing is very risky for Toss by 8:30 and if it fails can cost them the game. With 3 bunkers on 4 rax worth of production and semi decent repair, I think the Terran ends up ahead. Of course the Toss does hit before stim and this is noteworthy. However, Blze ,I think the real 6 gate pushes come later, as I stated around 9:00 or past. I'll try to include a few replays just nailed 2 rank 1 Msater toss.
That's reasonable-- if you need more time to respond, I can wait. Let me know when you get the chance to post some replays with your quick third base as a response to the 1 gate FE, and i'll be glad to address your concerns. However, until you adequately respond to my concerns, I think I'll hold off on further discussion.
EDIT:
+ Show Spoiler +On October 21 2011 14:14 zmansman17 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2011 14:11 Blazinghand wrote:On October 21 2011 14:06 zmansman17 wrote:On October 21 2011 03:32 Blazinghand wrote:
I've been hit by 6 gate timing attacks as early as 8:00. Am I missing something? I'm responding to this first line in your previous post :/ Ah-- well, when you get the chance, read past the first line. If you check out the 2nd paragraph, with the boldfaced sentences, in which my rebuttal is specifically framed in terms of a 9:00 push. I decided to go with 8:30 for the purposes of my replays. But semantics aside: Does your quick 3rd build have a response to the 6 gate all ins that I posted? Yes, Ineed more time to respond lol. Well, I wanted to watch your replays but I looked on sc2 ranks instead (799 pt master terran). I want to note that just because you can do a build at a certain time does not mean it is a good build, only that it is a viable build and that doesn't say much. This type of timing is very risky for Toss by 8:30 and if it fails can cost them the game. With 3 bunkers on 4 rax worth of production and semi decent repair, I think the Terran ends up ahead. Of course the Toss does hit before stim and this is noteworthy. However, Blze ,I think the real 6 gate pushes come later, as I stated around 9:00 or past. I'll try to include a few replays just nailed 2 rank 1 Msater toss. And knowing what I know, this is a big deal Nice edit there, adding in my points. I am aware of my points on the ladder. If you want to say I'm too low-level to comment, come out and say it-- don't hide behind innuendo. I'm willing to discuss openly and honestly with you, and I hope you continue to do the same.
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Seeker
Where dat snitch at?36905 Posts
Hi Seeker,
My internet crashed while I was streaming your game ._.
The VoD is lost to history.
So all I have are my notes. I'll neaten them up a bit so it's legible.
How to scout VR Allin coming in TvP
+ Show Spoiler +You scouted after 5:00:
3 gates, 2 gasses, saved chrono, STALKER AT HOME. Let's break it down. TvP is super scouting-reliant and you can usually scout protoss just by his buildings.
FIRST HINT: 3 gates, 2 gasses-- this means either a tech allin or a sentry expo. Here's what we can narrow it down to:
3 gate sentries?
DTs?
void rays?
3 gate robo?
3 gate blink?
NEXT HINT: saved chrono
you didn't see a robo fac; protosses do not proxy robo facilities.
what's he chronoing?
well he's not chronoing warpgate, since by now he would have spent most of it and warpgate would be done or almost done
he's not chronoing probes because you don't save chrono for that
he's chronoing A HIDDEN STARGATE
FINAL CLUE: stalker stays in main-- that stalker usually scouts at that time. It's protoss' only form of scouting once terran has a marine out, but before observer. Protoss needs it he has something to hide. he's all in.
Problem: you have 700 gas; don't take a 2nd gas, use the extra minerals to get more rax, more marines, more bunkers. stay on the high ground and bunker up harder.
Identify the all-in coming, and realize that it's ok to stay on 1 base with double mule. Don't take such a fast 2nd gas, and get more barracks and more marines. Flying out is not necessary and spreads you thin against VRs, and loses high ground advantage. Remember that he's on one base, and your extra CC makes your 1basing better, and you can expo more quickly. Take as few risks as possible against a 1basing protoss.
Hope this helps. I think I've caught up with everyone who's posted a replay this week. Keep on getting better, fellow Terrans!
<3
[/QUOTE]
Thank you for the replay analysis Blazinghand.... It was more than I could have hoped for.....
I was wondering if you could also analyze my TvP on Searing Crater that I uploaded? Idk why it shows Shakuras Plateau, but that was the game I lost to 4gate.
Much appreciated
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On October 21 2011 14:37 Seeker wrote:Show nested quote +Hi Seeker,
My internet crashed while I was streaming your game ._.
The VoD is lost to history.So all I have are my notes. I'll neaten them up a bit so it's legible. How to scout VR Allin coming in TvP + Show Spoiler +You scouted after 5:00:
3 gates, 2 gasses, saved chrono, STALKER AT HOME. Let's break it down. TvP is super scouting-reliant and you can usually scout protoss just by his buildings.
FIRST HINT: 3 gates, 2 gasses-- this means either a tech allin or a sentry expo. Here's what we can narrow it down to:
3 gate sentries?
DTs?
void rays?
3 gate robo?
3 gate blink?
NEXT HINT: saved chrono
you didn't see a robo fac; protosses do not proxy robo facilities.
what's he chronoing?
well he's not chronoing warpgate, since by now he would have spent most of it and warpgate would be done or almost done
he's not chronoing probes because you don't save chrono for that
he's chronoing A HIDDEN STARGATE
FINAL CLUE: stalker stays in main-- that stalker usually scouts at that time. It's protoss' only form of scouting once terran has a marine out, but before observer. Protoss needs it he has something to hide. he's all in.
Problem: you have 700 gas; don't take a 2nd gas, use the extra minerals to get more rax, more marines, more bunkers. stay on the high ground and bunker up harder.
Identify the all-in coming, and realize that it's ok to stay on 1 base with double mule. Don't take such a fast 2nd gas, and get more barracks and more marines. Flying out is not necessary and spreads you thin against VRs, and loses high ground advantage. Remember that he's on one base, and your extra CC makes your 1basing better, and you can expo more quickly. Take as few risks as possible against a 1basing protoss.
Hope this helps. I think I've caught up with everyone who's posted a replay this week. Keep on getting better, fellow Terrans! <3 Thank you for the replay analysis Blazinghand.... It was more than I could have hoped for..... I was wondering if you could also analyze my TvP on Searing Crater that I uploaded? Idk why it shows Shakuras Plateau, but that was the game I lost to 4gate. Much appreciated
No problem! It's pretty late where I am so I can't do a verbal commentary, but I'll take a look tomorrow :D
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hey guys, when do you terrans get your 2nd and 3rd gas in the event of a 2rax expand TvP? and do you get stim/shield or factory or +1 when you have 100 gas?
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On October 21 2011 16:25 thoradycus wrote:
hey guys, when do you terrans get your 2nd and 3rd gas in the event of a 2rax expand TvP? and do you get stim/shield or factory or +1 when you have 100 gas?
For me it's normally stim -> +1 -> factory, and I don't add my 2nd gas until I've started my third barracks. I've seen some players get +1 first when they're going for really fast upgrades, but this is usually off of a 1 rax reactor FE rather than off a 2 rax FE.
Stimpack is really important and takes a while to research, and you already have a tech lab, so that usually gets researched first.
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On October 21 2011 17:48 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2011 16:25 thoradycus wrote:
hey guys, when do you terrans get your 2nd and 3rd gas in the event of a 2rax expand TvP? and do you get stim/shield or factory or +1 when you have 100 gas? For me it's normally stim -> +1 -> factory, and I don't add my 2nd gas until I've started my third barracks. I've seen some players get +1 first when they're going for really fast upgrades, but this is usually off of a 1 rax reactor FE rather than off a 2 rax FE. Stimpack is really important and takes a while to research, and you already have a tech lab, so that usually gets researched first.
oh okay. when do you add your 3rd/4th racks?
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On October 21 2011 23:10 thoradycus wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2011 17:48 Blazinghand wrote:On October 21 2011 16:25 thoradycus wrote:
hey guys, when do you terrans get your 2nd and 3rd gas in the event of a 2rax expand TvP? and do you get stim/shield or factory or +1 when you have 100 gas? For me it's normally stim -> +1 -> factory, and I don't add my 2nd gas until I've started my third barracks. I've seen some players get +1 first when they're going for really fast upgrades, but this is usually off of a 1 rax reactor FE rather than off a 2 rax FE. Stimpack is really important and takes a while to research, and you already have a tech lab, so that usually gets researched first. oh okay. when do you add your 3rd/4th racks?
For me I add my 3rd racks after I've started my natural expansion, as soon as I've banked 150 minerals. I usually somewhat delay the 4th racks, depending on the situation, usually getting a starport first.
EDIT: AHHHHHH 1999 posts I can't post any more.... gotta complete my 2k post ._.
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On October 22 2011 00:04 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2011 23:10 thoradycus wrote:On October 21 2011 17:48 Blazinghand wrote:On October 21 2011 16:25 thoradycus wrote:
hey guys, when do you terrans get your 2nd and 3rd gas in the event of a 2rax expand TvP? and do you get stim/shield or factory or +1 when you have 100 gas? For me it's normally stim -> +1 -> factory, and I don't add my 2nd gas until I've started my third barracks. I've seen some players get +1 first when they're going for really fast upgrades, but this is usually off of a 1 rax reactor FE rather than off a 2 rax FE. Stimpack is really important and takes a while to research, and you already have a tech lab, so that usually gets researched first. oh okay. when do you add your 3rd/4th racks? For me I add my 3rd racks after I've started my natural expansion, as soon as I've banked 150 minerals. I usually somewhat delay the 4th racks, depending on the situation, usually getting a starport first. EDIT: AHHHHHH 1999 posts I can't post any more.... gotta complete my 2k post ._.
Good luck with the big post :D
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Dear everyone, could you help me out? I scouted the 4Gate in time. So I threw up some Bunkers, although 1 didn't finish in time, it shouldn't have set me back that much? What should I have done?
http://drop.sc/46619
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Stimpack is really important and takes a while to research, and you already have a tech lab, so that usually gets researched first.
And combat shields is better for holding a 6 gate as you can get it in time, as opposed to stim which could very well not finish if they do a cut and lean fast 6 gate.
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United Kingdom12021 Posts
Hey, High Plat/Diamond terran here.
I am seriously at my wits end against protoss. What's the best opening against protoss and how exactly am I supposed to handle the midgame? I used to win every single TvP, had a break and now I'm back I just can't win. I've lost every single TvP I've played for the past 3 weeks or so and it's so annoying.
I seem to outupgrade the protoss, but I always lose the engagements. I was in a game the other day, I was on 3-3 on 3 base against a protoss on 1-1 with 3 base with a bunch of collosus and even though I had a lot of vikings he just rolled through my army. I guessed it was my EMP's were not good enough, but it's been a horrible circle of either losing late game to zealot archon or losing to gateway/collosus. x.x
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
It's possible you're overmaking marines and undermaking marauders and ghosts, or vikings or something. Terran has to play very reactively in TvP-- having the wrong number of vikings or ghosts can be really bad. I'd probably have to see the replay to know specifically what went wrong. If you upload a replay or two to drop.sc and post it down here I'd be glad to offer some advice.
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On October 24 2011 02:53 Qikz wrote:
Hey, High Plat/Diamond terran here.
I am seriously at my wits end against protoss. What's the best opening against protoss and how exactly am I supposed to handle the midgame? I used to win every single TvP, had a break and now I'm back I just can't win. I've lost every single TvP I've played for the past 3 weeks or so and it's so annoying.
I seem to outupgrade the protoss, but I always lose the engagements. I was in a game the other day, I was on 3-3 on 3 base against a protoss on 1-1 with 3 base with a bunch of collosus and even though I had a lot of vikings he just rolled through my army. I guessed it was my EMP's were not good enough, but it's been a horrible circle of either losing late game to zealot archon or losing to gateway/collosus. x.x
Dear Fellow Terran
I know how you feel. This may help:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=277724#9
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EPT
