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Hey
I am currently a terran in high diamond having problems transitioning from the Reactor Hellion Expand.
10 Supply
12 Rax
13 Gas
15 OC
1 Marine
Supply
Factory @ 100 Gas
Reactor @ 50 Gas
@100 minerals bunker
@400 CC
Switch factory onto rax and build 4 hellions and a supply depot.
Harass and scout
.. then my problems start
1. What is the standard transition if you cannot make it into the main and scout (normally I make a factory and rax with tech lab to research stim and seige but it doesn't work out and my star port timing varies)?
2. If you see mass queens what is the best transition?
3. If you see double evo chamber what is the best transition?
4. Are there any other inferences you can make based on number of gases or quick lair timing and are there any specific transitions to any of these builds....?
5. When are good times to scout using scans or drops such as for lair timing hive timing, greater spire timing?
If you are a Terran in Master league can you please help me?
Thanks,
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On October 15 2011 13:42 MaximusMInd wrote:
Hey
I am currently a terran in high diamond having problems transitioning from the Reactor Hellion Expand.
10 Supply
12 Rax
13 Gas
15 OC
1 Marine
Supply
Factory @ 100 Gas
Reactor @ 50 Gas
@100 minerals bunker
@400 CC
Switch factory onto rax and build 4 hellions and a supply depot.
Harass and scout
.. then my problems start
1. What is the standard transition if you cannot make it into the main and scout (normally I make a factory and rax with tech lab to research stim and seige but it doesn't work out and my star port timing varies)?
2. If you see mass queens what is the best transition?
3. If you see double evo chamber what is the best transition?
4. Are there any other inferences you can make based on number of gases or quick lair timing and are there any specific transitions to any of these builds....?
5. When are good times to scout using scans or drops such as for lair timing hive timing, greater spire timing?
If you are a Terran in Master league can you please help me?
Thanks,
Looking at your BO, you don't need to get a bunker right after your reactor. It slows down your whole build a lot, and also start your 3rd SD BEFORE you start your first 2 hellions, or else you get supply blocked.
1. I would recomment switching your rax and fac again, so that your rax has the reactor and the fac has the tech lab, so you can get a fast tank and a lot of marines. This way, you won't have to build a bunker at all, because even if they are going for the sheth build where they get 7 roaches after expanding, your tank will be out in time. Then, get 2 more rax, the 2nd gas, and research sheilds with a tech lab that you made on one of the raxes you added on.
2. If you see mass queens, go for a 9-10 minute 3 tank 20 marine push, with shields for your marines and siege mode for you tanks.
3. If you see double evo chamber, they are most likely going mass zergling. If you don't see a 3rd from zerg, instead of pushing, take a fast 3rd yourself. You should have no problem defending it, if you have good enough tank positioning. Mass zergling will destroy the standard 9-10 minute push, so you can't do it.
4. If no lair started by 7:30, I would assume mass ling, so don't do your push and do what I said in #3. If they started lair by 7:30, its either mutas or infestors, and you should do the 9-10 minute push.
5. Around 16:00 is when many zergs get hive, if they are on top of things. I would begin checking around then.
1500 pt masters terran
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Are there any Terran streamers who talk while they play so that you can understand what they are thinking, why they do what they do etc? I'm talking about the same kind of thing that Destiny and White Ra do.
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On October 15 2011 23:40 Crankenstein wrote:
Are there any Terran streamers who talk while they play so that you can understand what they are thinking, why they do what they do etc? I'm talking about the same kind of thing that Destiny and White Ra do.
Demuslim does it from time to time. I don't know about others. I only every watch him/beastyqt
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On October 15 2011 23:40 Crankenstein wrote:
Are there any Terran streamers who talk while they play so that you can understand what they are thinking, why they do what they do etc? I'm talking about the same kind of thing that Destiny and White Ra do.
Trump
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Blazinghand
United States25560 Posts
On October 15 2011 23:40 Crankenstein wrote:
Are there any Terran streamers who talk while they play so that you can understand what they are thinking, why they do what they do etc? I'm talking about the same kind of thing that Destiny and White Ra do.
Many Terrans do this, as we are the coolest race and love sharing our insights with each other. Besides myself, Sterling, Trump, -Max-, Debo, Avilo, are all self-casting players (and ballers).
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On October 15 2011 23:40 Crankenstein wrote:
Are there any Terran streamers who talk while they play so that you can understand what they are thinking, why they do what they do etc? I'm talking about the same kind of thing that Destiny and White Ra do.
HalbyStarcraft is very helpful when he casts his own games. He also puts up videos where he talks while he is playing.
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AAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH. It's Blazinghands birthday today!!! Conragulations! What age have you become? =D May you have many more fruitful years ahead in your life! Wish you the very best! Happy BDay!!!!
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Hi fellow TL members, I'm compiling a list of scouting information in the TvP matchup. Regarding the protoss expansion timing, what is the rough timing of the nexus for:
1. 1 gate expand
2. 3 gate expand
thanks guys!
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On October 17 2011 08:04 KenDM wrote:
AAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH. It's Blazinghands birthday today!!! Conragulations! What age have you become? =D May you have many more fruitful years ahead in your life! Wish you the very best! Happy BDay!!!!
wooooooooooo didnt knew that :D my birthday is tommorow haha :D
Happy bday Blazinghand, love you bro 
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Ey happy BDay to you too Tommyyy!!! Herzlichen Glückwunsch zum Geburtstag!!!
Ontopic:
Dear anyone!
I've gotten the advice to implement the following in my siege expand build: An engineering bay after the factory poops out the first Tank and siege mode is well underway. This in anticipation of a quick Banshee harass, or even a muta. Of course utilising it by going quick +1 attack. What do you guys think of this? Will this prevent me from having a good army early on in the game? I haven't really noticed any difference in my play, just delayed starport/command center. This did save me from Banshee harasses like twice/thrice though...
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Seeker
Where dat snitch at?37095 Posts
So.....
I want to try divergin myself away from 1/1/1. I know it's a very good strategy against protoss..... but I want to play legit.
In the past 2 games I've recently had.... I went 1rax FE......
Let's just say.... 4gate raped me both times....
I don't get it.... it's like the minute I move out to build bunkers, they attack with 4 zeals/stalkers and it eliminates me right then and there.
How can I possibly overcome the 4gate?
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Blazinghand
United States25560 Posts
I'd probably have to see a replay to be sure of what happened, but if you don't scout a 4gate, it's very hard to hold. As a general rule if you scout it you can make a couple bunkers at the ramp into your main, and even on 1 base as long as you don't lose, you'll get ahead in worker count and have double mule, plus you can fly out after you hold the all in.
Don't salvage your high-ground bunkers until your natural bunkers are finished.
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On October 18 2011 04:05 Seeker wrote:
So.....
I want to try divergin myself away from 1/1/1. I know it's a very good strategy against protoss..... but I want to play legit.
In the past 2 games I've recently had.... I went 1rax FE......
Let's just say.... 4gate raped me both times....
I don't get it.... it's like the minute I move out to build bunkers, they attack with 4 zeals/stalkers and it eliminates me right then and there.
How can I possibly overcome the 4gate?
Umm, well there are more builds than 1rax FE and 1/1/1... what time are you getting your 2nd and 3rd rax ? an aggresive 4gate comes at 5:45 as warp gate is done by then. You should scout and see what they are doing. A 1rax FE can barely hold off a 4gate as you need to have some sick micro and pull workers... 3 rax before an expo is viable vs 4 gate.
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Seeker
Where dat snitch at?37095 Posts
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Xel Naga Caverns. There's your problem. Very hard to hold a FE on this map because of the large surface area at your natural. That's why everyone uses 2 rax pressure and more commonly the 1/1/1 on this map.
Well, no, people use the 1/1/1 because it wins games but you know what I mean.
As for the other game: Your opening was a little slow and sloppy and you got your second CC really fast. An example of this is getting the second depo before the OC. If you tighten up that opening and slow down your CC a little to get out a few extra units then you should be fine.
when I 1rax FE I like to do the thorzain 1 scv in gas 1 marauder expand or a reactor marine expand. CC is a little later but it's so much more safe.
I also don't think your problem is moving out and getting crushed by the 4gate. I think the problem is that you don't know that the 4gate is coming and so you are moving out as it hits. You need to scout it, know that it's coming, and then realise you can't move out. Build up off of your 3 rax while teching to medivacs, push out, crush the contain and then take your natural with your secured lead.
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On October 18 2011 08:14 Seeker wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2011 04:05 Seeker wrote:
So.....
I want to try divergin myself away from 1/1/1. I know it's a very good strategy against protoss..... but I want to play legit.
In the past 2 games I've recently had.... I went 1rax FE......
Let's just say.... 4gate raped me both times....
I don't get it.... it's like the minute I move out to build bunkers, they attack with 4 zeals/stalkers and it eliminates me right then and there.
How can I possibly overcome the 4gate? ![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-237323.jpg) ] ![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-237324.jpg) ] Uploaded replays regarding my 1rax failed FE. Umm.... I'm really confused here..... I keep getting 2 things [/url][/url]
On Xel'naga Caverns it is pretty risky to go for 1rax FE because of the wide open natural. Try using the 2rax with gas FE instead. 12 rax 13 gas, reactor on your first rax and build 2nd rax at 16 supply (before depot). It is a very safe opening, and should be able to hold a 4gate no problem. It's still important to scout the 4gate though, as you will need a couple of bunkers even with the 2rax.
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So anyone any comment on my question about fast EBay after factory in a siege expand build? Against Banshee harass. Also just for the early +1 against Zerg, and it'll be there for against muta's. Does this slow down an expo too much, delaying a starport too much? What are considerations to make when doing an early EBay?
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Seeker
Where dat snitch at?37095 Posts
On October 18 2011 09:11 KenDM wrote:
So anyone any comment on my question about fast EBay after factory in a siege expand build? Against Banshee harass. Also just for the early +1 against Zerg, and it'll be there for against muta's. Does this slow down an expo too much, delaying a starport too much? What are considerations to make when doing an early EBay?
This did save me from Banshee harasses like twice/thrice though...
There's your answer.
Consider this: if you are going factory seige expand, you are clearly going defensive. What are you vulnerable to? Air.
Any kind of aerial assault is going to tear away at u because you will lack air defenses early on.
Build turrets for sure. And make sure you start pumping units asap to fight off those air units.
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Mid-Masters Terran here.
I'm not sure if this is common amongst my Terran brethren but recently TvZ really seems to have ramped up in difficulty. So some things I need help with at the moment. This is effectively more of a observation on the philosophy of TvZ than a replay specific problem.
Dealing with zerg in macro games?
a) Limiting muta numbers
Players often suggest a 3 tank/1 medivac push @ around 9-10 minutes depending on how much stuff you want. However, this kind of play just doesn't seem to work for me anymore. Opening with 4 to 6 Hellions is great for map control and preventing creep spread but allows the zerg to drone up heavily, make a macro hatch(es) and, when the three tank push comes, crush it with ease.
We've seen korean terrans go for quicker thirds to take advantage of the map control and compensate for the lack of damage hellions can do directly. Yet this also slows down any potential push a terran can do and effectively allows the zerg to get more mutalisks and a far less contested third.
b) Dealing with high muta counts or, more generally, playing defensive terran
So with this ability to crush standard 2 base timings, we've seen many korean terran's opt for a more defensive terran style. Examples of this may include Bomber/Idra game 2 MLG, (perhaps even the entire series) on antiga shipyard and DRG vs Supernova on Metalopolis in GSL October.
I get the impression that this is becoming the new standard of TvZ as zergs have got better at defending against 2 base timings when going mutalisks and already dealt fairly easily with 2 base timings with other unit compositions.
My difficulty with defensive terran is with the lack of offensive potential.
A large mutalisk flock can,
i) Shut down drops extremely easily
ii) Lock you in your base and force thors/heavy turret numbers/a fair portion of marines for defense.
Not only that, but zergs have begun putting spinecrawlers down at expansions, (finally) as well as dedicating a portion of their army to defend drops. Hence the once devastating multiprong drops usefulness at denying/killing off expansions seems to have been reduced significantly, (see Nestea vs MMA RO32 on Terminus GSL October and Idra/Bomber game 3 MLG).
It seems the way to go is maximising cost efficiency with units such as siege tanks, ghosts, vikings/thors etc to whittle down a zerg till they eventually just lose. With a virtually unrestricted economy however, it seems to be extremely difficult to hold every zerg attack consistently.
TL:DR
I'm looking for some general direction with my macro centric TvZ,
e.g. Possible timings/engagements/overall strategy.
If anybody wants to point out any errors in my way of thinking then please feel free.
Any tips people have in regards to the matchup are also welcome.
Thanks in advance.
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EPT
