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Qikz
United Kingdom12022 Posts
On October 24 2011 09:04 zmansman17 wrote: Dear Fellow Terran I know how you feel. This may help: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=277724#9 Thanks a lot, should help me tommorow when I get a chance to use it. :D | ||
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SteemdRIce
Australia44 Posts
 1. I had my 2 engineering bays up for a while and didn't do anything with them, espcially the second one that I built specifically for upgrades and didn't upgrade with it. 2. I didn't rally my SCVs to minerals off my 3rd and 4th CC 3. I didn't build a tech lab on my 2nd factory for ages, and that meant that tank production was slower than it should have been 4. Didn't micro marines properly against banelings 5. When I did my first push, I did it before getting vision of the high ground. Here is the replay, thanks ^_^ http://drop.sc/46823 | ||
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XXXSmOke
United States1333 Posts
Was my best MU by far, but ever since last GSL season Z"s seemed to have picked up on alot of things like macro hatches, gasless builds, roach aggression, pure muta/ling. 2 rax seems so much weaker with that new 5 second timings, alot of Z's are droning alot extra in the begining and if they see your going hellions, they are so good at completely nullifying that now. | ||
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spiksel
Netherlands97 Posts
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VoO
Germany278 Posts
It seems every Protoss just plays one base, Immortal bust (too strong), Voidray all-in (okay) or DT cheese (okay). If they have two bases, they do fucking nothing until deathball or a 2 colossus timing. I can't drop since they always keep their army at the base... Can't post a replay because I'm so fucking angry that a 80 APM player wins with a-click against me that I have to flame. | ||
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ToastieNL
Netherlands845 Posts
On October 24 2011 18:42 corvaleur wrote: Diamond here. Suddenly my winrate vs. Protoss dropped from 60% to 20%, I don't know what to do... It seems every Protoss just plays one base, Immortal bust (too strong), Voidray all-in (okay) or DT cheese (okay). If they have two bases, they do fucking nothing until deathball or a 2 colossus timing. I can't drop since they always keep their army at the base... Can't post a replay because I'm so fucking angry that a 80 APM player wins with a-click against me that I have to flame. If he turtles: Expand! Get ahead ! Threaten drops, he can't be everywhere. Have a medivac on the nat, one on the main, and attack the front. He'll be forced to split. If he engages head on, retreat. If his whole army leaves, poke, snipe nexus, whatever. Spread him thin! | ||
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aLmosTeu
Germany101 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Alright guys here's deal: post a replay of you losing to something in this thread, along with your own analysis, and I'll make a 10-15 minute coaching video in which I go over your replay, along with some written notes. On deck today is Gavatron, Seeker, and KenDM. On October 21 2011 09:14 Gavatron wrote: Hello fellow Terrans and Blazing Hand in particular, I am a Diamond League player who's having difficulties fighting Protoss. Here is a replay of my latest loss. I hope you can help. http://drop.sc/46111 Hi Gavatron, I took a look at your replay and made an analysis VoD: Stream VoD Link (twitch.tv): http://www.twitch.tv/blazinghand/b/298214847 Embedded Video Link (youtube): + Show Spoiler + http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IvlO9XxKK8I Some non-comprehensive written notes: Question: why do we get medivacs? Answer: 2 reasons: one, the medi. two, the vac medivacs both heal and drop. the dropping is how you get a third base dropping: if you drop a base and it isn't there, feel free to pick up and go somewhere else dropping the main is also acceptable vikings vs colossi-- you lhim get off several volleys of colossus fire before you killed anything with your vikings Fighting Zealots with bio- stutter stepping and/or kiting: it's improtant to stutter step your bio against zealots to reduce zealot dps in final battle, same problems apply: vikings not engaging during fight, no stutter step. things that lost you this game: unit control, and 4th base. I think you needed more drops for map control On October 24 2011 01:34 KenDM wrote: Dear everyone, could you help me out? I scouted the 4Gate in time. So I threw up some Bunkers, although 1 didn't finish in time, it shouldn't have set me back that much? What should I have done? http://drop.sc/46619 Hi KenDM, I took a look at your replay and made an analysis VoD: Stream VoD Link (twitch.tv): http://www.twitch.tv/blazinghand/b/298214993 Embedded Video Link (youtube): + Show Spoiler + Some non-comprehensive written notes: anti-4gate TvP you had your various mistakes but i thinkt he problem is you didn't repair the bunker repairing the bunker costs you minerals, but lets you hold basically any gateway all-in. all the other mistakes didn't lose you the game-- not repairing the bunker did. On October 18 2011 Seeker wrote: I want to try divergin myself away from 1/1/1. I know it's a very good strategy against protoss..... but I want to play legit. In the past 2 games I've recently had.... I went 1rax FE...... Let's just say.... 4gate raped me both times.... I don't get it.... it's like the minute I move out to build bunkers, they attack with 4 zeals/stalkers and it eliminates me right then and there. How can I possibly overcome the 4gate? Hi Seeker, I took a look at your replay and made an analysis VoD: Stream VoD Link (twitch.tv): http://www.twitch.tv/blazinghand/b/298215069 Embedded Video Link (youtube): + Show Spoiler + Some non-comprehensive written notes: you scouted the 4 gate, but you had some problems: only 2 marines at 5:30 flying CC out vs 4gate not enough repairing scvs, only 1 high bunker your 2nd gas was too early Hope this helps. I think I've caught up with everyone who's posted a replay this week. Don't worry, SteemdRice, I'll get to you in the next round of videos-- I made these yesterday before you posted but it takes some time for the server to process them. Keep on getting better, fellow Terrans! <3 | ||
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KenDM
Netherlands206 Posts
Another question, how viable is quick Hellion against Toss? Or a red flame Hellion drop? | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On October 25 2011 02:11 KenDM wrote: Thanks for the analysis BH. I had a question on the same match-up. Is it wise to have conc shells, or should I get shields instead? Also, will shields increase Marauder armor? Otherwise, should I get stim? (I won't have medivacs out for a long time against a 4Gate). Another question, how viable is quick Hellion against Toss? Or a red flame Hellion drop? It depends how many marauders you're making. If you're making a lot of early marauders, like, more than 2 or so early on, then concussive shells is useful for aggression. Usually, getting shields and stim is what people do because they have a lot of marines. Shields do not increase the health or armor of marauders. A few early Hellions against protoss are okay, but you'll still need to make plenty of marines and bunkers, since hellions aren't very good against stalkers. Some builds with a quick factory rush out 1 hellion for scouting and minor harass. A red flame hellion drop is ok, but make sure you expand reasonably quickly, and have a bunker so you can fight stalkers. | ||
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zmansman17
United States2567 Posts
On October 25 2011 02:11 KenDM wrote: Thanks for the analysis BH. I had a question on the same match-up. Is it wise to have conc shells, or should I get shields instead? Also, will shields increase Marauder armor? Otherwise, should I get stim? (I won't have medivacs out for a long time against a 4Gate). Another question, how viable is quick Hellion against Toss? Or a red flame Hellion drop? Stim is probably the best response, even if you won't have it by the time they attack. I generally don't get conc shells right away unless I am planning a rush-based play with mard/marine off 2 rax before the onset of 4 wg | ||
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Sianos
580 Posts
If you want to get agressive concussive shell and stim are good Upgrades to strenghen your attack. But if you play defensive and with a lot of marines, the combat shield is the better upgrade. Don´t get your upgrades just because they are good, you have to use them to the best when you get them. If you have stim, do a attack. You don´t have to commit to that attack if your opponent has already a good defense. You just don´t want stim that early while sitting in your base. So if you plan on getting a faster expantion than your opponent and a faster 3rd Combat Shields and Bunkers are the better options to defend. | ||
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iAmJeffReY
United States4262 Posts
On October 24 2011 15:28 XXXSmOke wrote: Anybody else having a real hard time with Z at master level as of late? Was my best MU by far, but ever since last GSL season Z"s seemed to have picked up on alot of things like macro hatches, gasless builds, roach aggression, pure muta/ling. 2 rax seems so much weaker with that new 5 second timings, alot of Z's are droning alot extra in the begining and if they see your going hellions, they are so good at completely nullifying that now. Definitely not alone there. Not so much the macro hatches, or roach aggression, or even the muta ling play.. It's the god damn fast upgrade lings, and ling masse. What stops every terran all in? Lings lol. These new stephano clones are fuckin 2/2 when I just finished 1/1 and try to push out, thinking 2 base vs 2 base I got this. I completely stopped 2 raxing, almost completely. It doesn't work. Drones alone kill it. They even fucking hatch at 15, and can pool at 16-18 and still be safe, just by pure drone pulls. You have to pull too many scvs and if you fail, you're done for. I do a double reactor marine hellion medic elevator. Very similar to slayers timing, sans blue flame, and I get 2 medics. It's about 10-14 marines, 4 hellions, and 2 medics that's about the only thing I have any luck with lately. Hellions have and always will be easy to stop. They only abuse bad/greedy zergs. 2 queens, 2 spines, and a evo at the ramp and hellions have to do TOO much or have TOO many to do any kind of real damage. They are, at best now, zone control and semi creep spread stopping. | ||
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XXXSmOke
United States1333 Posts
On October 25 2011 05:42 iAmJeffReY wrote: Definitely not alone there. Not so much the macro hatches, or roach aggression, or even the muta ling play.. It's the god damn fast upgrade lings, and ling masse. What stops every terran all in? Lings lol. These new stephano clones are fuckin 2/2 when I just finished 1/1 and try to push out, thinking 2 base vs 2 base I got this. I completely stopped 2 raxing, almost completely. It doesn't work. Drones alone kill it. They even fucking hatch at 15, and can pool at 16-18 and still be safe, just by pure drone pulls. You have to pull too many scvs and if you fail, you're done for. I do a double reactor marine hellion medic elevator. Very similar to slayers timing, sans blue flame, and I get 2 medics. It's about 10-14 marines, 4 hellions, and 2 medics that's about the only thing I have any luck with lately. Hellions have and always will be easy to stop. They only abuse bad/greedy zergs. 2 queens, 2 spines, and a evo at the ramp and hellions have to do TOO much or have TOO many to do any kind of real damage. They are, at best now, zone control and semi creep spread stopping. Yes! hahah good to know im not alone. The first time i faced a pure Zergling/Muta i was seriously dumbfounded. The guy crushed my push like it was nothing. Theres no worse feeling in TvZ than when your first push miserably fails. You are almost sure to suffer a slow agonizing rape, unless you get some lucky drops. Agree on the 2 rax.... R.I.P. One thing I do want to try is MKP's doub eng bay vs Idra at MLG orlando game 3 on Shak. He got extremely fast ups and his units were just so fucking boss and durable. Or it might finally be time to bring out the mech TvZ's again. I love my rine/tank tho  On top of all this my TvP is still shit, Its been like all summer and fall with a 15% winrate in that MU I just cant fucking do it Hard days for Terran Oh and I meant to PM you a long ass time ago Jeff, but you and I used to really like the 3 fact opener in TvP and I got to thank the creator LZ himself in person for both of us!!! to bad that really doesnt work now with hell nerf/immort buff. Really Hard days HoTs plz. I want my battle hellions now | ||
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halpimcat
215 Posts
It seems as if lately the quick double starport with reactor isn't as popular anymore, with most Toss players favoring less exclusively Colossus-heavy play from a few months ago to now, a more gateway and balanced deathball (no one really sings "double robo" anymore). A lot of Terrans are favoring getting extra barracks and pumping air units off of one starport. Is there a certain time when the double starport becomes a necessity? Basically how safe is 1 starport vs X colossus and when is it not enough? | ||
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IMOrchid
Canada9 Posts
I think at this point I'm fairly good against Zerg. However, I've been having a lot of trouble with pushing and transitioning into late game, and I need help both; first of all, when is the appropriate time to push? Past the 10 minute mark, usually the creep spread is crazy and I'm crazy to try pushing because they can see it so early. I know I force units, but that doesn't seem to do enough. What can I do other than useless drops? (By useless, I mean mutas lolol) In terms of transitioning, when should I start making ghosts? In the last TvZ game I played, I started making them around 25 minutes and I got creamed lol. So many BLs and Infestors :'( | ||
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Gavatron
Canada13 Posts
On October 25 2011 01:46 Blazinghand wrote: Hi Gavatron, I took a look at your replay and made an analysis VoD: Stream VoD Link (twitch.tv): http://www.twitch.tv/blazinghand/b/298214847 Embedded Video Link (youtube): + Show Spoiler + http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IvlO9XxKK8I http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xY347D-a0I4 Some non-comprehensive written notes: Question: why do we get medivacs? Answer: 2 reasons: one, the medi. two, the vac medivacs both heal and drop. the dropping is how you get a third base dropping: if you drop a base and it isn't there, feel free to pick up and go somewhere else dropping the main is also acceptable vikings vs colossi-- you lhim get off several volleys of colossus fire before you killed anything with your vikings Fighting Zealots with bio- stutter stepping and/or kiting: it's improtant to stutter step your bio against zealots to reduce zealot dps in final battle, same problems apply: vikings not engaging during fight, no stutter step. things that lost you this game: unit control, and 4th base. I think you needed more drops for map control Hey blazinghand, Thanks alot for making the analysis I really appreciated it. Sorry I didn't include many details in the original post I was in a hurry and was feeling lazy. You gave good advice given that you zero background information. I think another reason I didn't write much was that I couldn't point to one particular reason that I lost the game but now that you've pointed out my army control issue and lack of drops I feel a little reassured that I can have something to specific to work on to improve my play as I was really feeling stuck in a rut playing against protoss. That was good advice about warpgate arriving at 7:00 I didn't know that. I also thought my bunker rush was a decent move and I think my main mistakes were the ones you pointed out. I find it tricky to manage all the units in my army when it gets later in Protoss matches. I think I end up focusing on controlling my vikings and ghosts and have trouble also stutter stepping my infantry. I find that kind of micro easier against Zerg but I get a little overwhelmed against Protoss. There's so much stuff to do in the battle! I wish I could get better at multitasking which would help me be able to drop more confidently. I've done it other matches but I didn't manage it in this one. I think it's good advice to have drop threats to keep the Protoss on their toes. Your right about the 4th base being slow and it was funny when I lifted the wrong command center I didn't realize I did that I must have been really panicking. Thanks again for the reply. With your help I'm off to battle more evil protoss. Gavatron | ||
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ComBro1
80 Posts
Thanks, Combro http://www.sc2replayed.com/replay-videos/14652 | ||
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Steelo_Rivers
United States1968 Posts
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Grndr101
Belgium125 Posts
So I'm pretty much struggling tvp, and hearing Destiny troll about how terrans never use certain units got me to play around with the raven and hunter seeker missile in the unit terster. I got an army for t of 10 ravens, 5 vikings and the rest MMM. (both armies were about 120 supply, which seemed appropriate) For the protoss I went for a shitton of chargelots, a little less stalkers, 4 colossi and 5 archons(I figured I better take archons instead of templar since it would be harder to simmulate storm and feedback micro). Anyway what I'm trying to say is 10 HSM can decimate a protoss deathball and the reaction time it would take for the protoss to split before the HSM's hit is pretty thin(i know speculation). After the HSM MMMV cleaned up the rest. Now I KNOW this doesn't mean anything, but HSM seems like a good alternative to emp. And because of the gas cost (and since you're not spending your gas anyway in tvp), it would seem much better than MMMGV, leaving more minerals for MM and rax. tl;dr Has anyone tried HSM play in tvp? Do you actually have the time to set up a good raven contingent in a usual game? Would love some replays or BO's. I will probably test this out on my own, but I'd love to not have to start from scratch. | ||
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