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On February 08 2013 07:41 kollin wrote:
Oh whoops, I didn't but when I mentioned the marauder into 3 OC that's what I was referring to. That's why I called it modern. I would still like a replay of your marauder PF mech build please.
By the way. The concussive marauder opener is one thing. PF on natural is another thing. They can both be combined sure. I put the PF in there as a suggestion to how he could follow further after he trained the first marauder. I do that often though - as I said. I don't need to give you a replay nor will I. I am ok with you believing it is a bad idea. You are confident about it. And you aren't interested to know if it is good, regardless of you asking for a replay. You are saying it fails under every circumstance as well. So I do not need to prove it to you.
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No you do not need to give me a replay. Possibly because the build never works. But you do need to give a replay for the fellow you are helping, so he can refine the build.
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On February 08 2013 07:48 kollin wrote:
No you do not need to give me a replay. Possibly because the build never works. But you do need to give a replay for the fellow you are helping, so he can refine the build.
He never asked for it. Nor did I say that the PF part was a necessary thing. It was you who started talking with me about the PF. It was just a suggestion to the already answered question about how to get map control vs early stalker poke.
As I said; I already answered his question a long time ago.
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You made a suggestion. It was bad, I told you why. I'm glad we can end this amicably.
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You called it "in these modern days this is what happens". And you ended that with saying if the protoss isn't dumb you basically something are dead. You were referring to Flash? Was that your comeback from when you were faced with a replay of a pro player? Looks like you did not think anyone did this kind of opening.
As we can see. You are just trying to prove me wrong. Rather than discussing. And you even use the word "modern" as a defense for proving that you mentioned Flash earlier in the thread. That contradicts what you said. You used the modern day example to tell me how it does not work.
You are only trying to win arguments every single time you write. Without any discussion. You just say my suggestion is bad. And overly emphasize your claims with childish attempts such as "Don't you even think". Even try to question my league.
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Yes, I was referring to Flash. There's a reason this opener is not used anymore, especially in a non BoX series setting. I am trying to prove you wrong because you are giving bad advice and adamantly claiming it is right. I knew that Flash had done that opening, I used it myself several times. However, it is not very good and that is why it is not the standard in TvP.
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On February 08 2013 08:09 llIH wrote:
You called it "in these modern days this is what happens". And you ended that with saying if the protoss isn't dumb you basically something are dead. You were referring to Flash? Was that your comeback from when you were faced with a replay of a pro player? Looks like you did not think anyone did this kind of opening.
As we can see. You are just trying to prove me wrong. Rather than discussing. And you even use the word "modern" as a defense for proving that you mentioned Flash earlier in the thread. That contradicts what you said. You used the modern day example to tell me how it does not work.
You are only trying to win arguments every single time you write. Without any discussion. You just say my suggestion is bad. And overly emphasize your claims with childish attempts such as "Don't you even think". Even try to question my league.
The only reason flash played that is because he has too. Topplayers are wel documented and therefore are predictable. U see MKP and others mixing it up too. But for ladderplay there are better 3oc's builds for tvp that are not so risky as the flash-fake-variant. I personally would never advice someone to fake something so early in a laddermatch, which has negative effects aswell. U could even question if the build won him that game.
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It is just for scouting and getting map control. Not for killing the opponent.
Kollin. I am not claiming I am right, I never said that. Once again you put words in my mouth. I can't believe you still keep doing that. I caught you several times already.
I am saying that the build is a possibility. And that it can work. Nothing else was said about it.
I repeated this several times. The problem was that you said it was bad just because no one does it. Here I told you - argumentum ad populum. You then continue to say more about what it fails at. For example that I need more eco(which I have), need bio for filling 2 bunkers(which one barracks easily can do). Then you tried to come with backup for your claim. You said several times stuff that I was supposed to say, to make it look like I was failing my attempt to for example "keep up with protoss eco" thats just one of them.
But I can live with that my build is bad. I like it. And it works for me at master league. Not often, nor always. I got no problem with that it is bad. So you win.
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On February 08 2013 08:33 llIH wrote:
It is just for scouting and getting map control. Not for killing the opponent.
Kollin. I am not claiming I am right, I never said that. Once again you put words in my mouth. I can't believe you still keep doing that. I caught you several times already.
I am saying that the build is a possibility. And that it can work. Nothing else was said about it.
Yes, it can work if your opponent is affraid after spotting the marauder. U fake something and do another. Aslong he doesnt poke with more again u are right. Problem solved. But if he does poke again, your loose eventually. Because u dont have the productionfacilities needed to defend your base. The build is too risky to advice to someone else just to avoid a poke, which could cost him games too. For example : I would not advice my mother to go play roulette in vegas and put 1 million dollars on black, because there is good chance it hits.
On February 08 2013 08:33 llIH wrote:
I repeated this several times. The problem was that you said it was bad just because no one does it. Here I told you - argumentum ad populum. You then continue to say more about what it fails at. For example that I need more eco(which I have), need bio for filling 2 bunkers(which one barracks easily can do).
With this build u will not hold any reasonable push of the protos. U are basically gambling that the opponent isn't attacking early. Next to that, it does put u a little behind economically and in production falicities aswell. There are better options to deny pokes then this flash-fake-3OC-build for laddermatches.
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On February 08 2013 08:49 govie wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2013 08:33 llIH wrote:
It is just for scouting and getting map control. Not for killing the opponent.
Kollin. I am not claiming I am right, I never said that. Once again you put words in my mouth. I can't believe you still keep doing that. I caught you several times already.
I am saying that the build is a possibility. And that it can work. Nothing else was said about it.
Yes, it can work if your opponent is affraid after spotting the marauder. U fake something and do another. Aslong he doesnt poke with more again u are right. Problem solved. But if he does poke again, your loose eventually. Because u dont have the productionfacilities needed to defend your base. The build is too risky to advice to someone else just to avoid a poke, which could cost him games too. For example : I would not advice my mother to go play roulette in vegas and put 1 million dollars on black, because there is good chance it hits. Show nested quote +On February 08 2013 08:33 llIH wrote:
I repeated this several times. The problem was that you said it was bad just because no one does it. Here I told you - argumentum ad populum. You then continue to say more about what it fails at. For example that I need more eco(which I have), need bio for filling 2 bunkers(which one barracks easily can do).
With this build u will not hold any reasonable push of the protos. U are basically gambling that the opponent isn't attacking early. Next to that, it does put u a little behind economically and in production falicities aswell. There are better options to deny pokes then this flash-fake-3OC-build for laddermatches.
Totally agree there are better ways.
I loved the Vegas analogy btw! :D
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It is just for scouting and getting map control. Not for killing the opponent.
Kollin. I am not claiming I am right, I never said that. Once again you put words in my mouth. I can't believe you still keep doing that. I caught you several times already.
Ah gosh dangit, you damn kids caught me again. If you are not right stop arguing you're case as it is, by definition, wrong.
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Hey, can someone analyze this HotS TvZ? I never played a TvZ this good but still I can't do shit. Please have a quick look. I'm gold btw.
http://drop.sc/303100
It's HotS! 
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Does anybody have a replay of a pro doing a TvT proxy marauder rush which does some damage but they macro behind it into bio tank and win?
The original rush i do usually works pretty well, but my build afterwards is disorganized and not very efficient.
Thanks
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On February 09 2013 00:39 Jockmcplop wrote:
Does anybody have a replay of a pro doing a TvT proxy marauder rush which does some damage but they macro behind it into bio tank and win?
The original rush i do usually works pretty well, but my build afterwards is disorganized and not very efficient.
Thanks
I don't have a replay sitting around, but it is MUCH easier to transition into mech off of a proxy marauder play simply because you have the gas for fac->star and can transition into hellion/banshee very easily, or hellion/viking. It's just easier to mech if you proxy like that.
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In TvP when 1 rax fe, what's difference between getting 2 gas after the 3rd rax and getting 1 gas n delaying the 2nd ( bomber style ) ?
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When Meching in TvT what should u do if u scout ur opponent transitioning into mass air ?
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In TvZ mech, what should be my armory/thor/turret timings so i can prevent any surprise mutalisks from killing me?
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On February 09 2013 05:33 darkphantom wrote:
When Meching in TvT what should u do if u scout ur opponent transitioning into mass air ?
Depends on what your scout shows. If he's already got a substantial Viking lead on you (like 4-6 Vikings ahead), then you need to pump some Thors to target down and even the air battle. You need to whittle down his Vikings because a TvT air army is primarily Vikings, with a core of BC/Raven for anti-ground DPS, PDD, and possible HSM/Yamato shenanigans. If you can get his Viking count down, and build up your own (oh, also make sure you have at least 1 Raven for PDD), you can have a chance at catching back up and matching his transition.
If you just see him starting a bunch of extra Starports, you can do one of two things: do the same, or counterpunch him during the transition, because he'll be vulnerable before the BC/Raven switch gets solidly into play.
If he already has Battlecruisers, Vikings, and Ravens online, well... hope he makes a mistake, because a Thor-less mech army just dies flat out to a fully primed SkyTerran force.
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Is the build that Lucifron used in the DICE invitational vs. Scarlett viable on ladder or is it too greedy and unsafe?
I'm talking about his CC first --->1 rax-------->3rd CC (after double orbital)------>double gas and reactored hellions, double ups, etc.
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On February 09 2013 05:32 darkphantom wrote:
In TvP when 1 rax fe, what's difference between getting 2 gas after the 3rd rax and getting 1 gas n delaying the 2nd ( bomber style ) ?
Bomber delays the second gas because in the long run it nets him two extra barracks at 8:30 instead of 10:00 (as well as delaying addons till 8:10ish). Obviously, delaying the gas will delay the ebay and the starport. I use both styles, I use bomber style if i want to play aggressively after 10:00ish minutes, because its skimpy on units but puts money into later infrastructure, i double gas if i want faster addons/stim timing/or a double reactor build.
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EPT
