EPTOn February 08 2013 23:27 Staab wrote:
Hey, can someone analyze this HotS TvZ? I never played a TvZ this good but still I can't do shit. Please have a quick look. I'm gold btw.
http://drop.sc/303100
It's HotS!
Hey, can someone analyze this HotS TvZ? I never played a TvZ this good but still I can't do shit. Please have a quick look. I'm gold btw.
http://drop.sc/303100
It's HotS!
Try here.
On February 09 2013 00:39 Jockmcplop wrote:
Does anybody have a replay of a pro doing a TvT proxy marauder rush which does some damage but they macro behind it into bio tank and win?
The original rush i do usually works pretty well, but my build afterwards is disorganized and not very efficient.
Thanks
Does anybody have a replay of a pro doing a TvT proxy marauder rush which does some damage but they macro behind it into bio tank and win?
The original rush i do usually works pretty well, but my build afterwards is disorganized and not very efficient.
Thanks
Assuming it's safe to do so, you can just proceed as you would with 1 rax FE → 3 rax Medivacs.
On February 09 2013 06:29 isaachukfan wrote:
In TvZ mech, what should be my armory/thor/turret timings so i can prevent any surprise mutalisks from killing me?
In TvZ mech, what should be my armory/thor/turret timings so i can prevent any surprise mutalisks from killing me?
Scout a Spire; there is no universal timing as there are different sorts of 2-bases Lair builds. Generally Mutalisks are complete anytime between 9'30 and 10'30 with the most common Lair builds, but they can appear earlier or later (slower 2-bases Lair builds or 3-bases Mutalisks).
On February 09 2013 10:07 PinheadXXXXXX wrote:
Is the build that Lucifron used in the DICE invitational vs. Scarlett viable on ladder or is it too greedy and unsafe?
I'm talking about his CC first --->1 rax-------->3rd CC (after double orbital)------>double gas and reactored hellions, double ups, etc.
Is the build that Lucifron used in the DICE invitational vs. Scarlett viable on ladder or is it too greedy and unsafe?
I'm talking about his CC first --->1 rax-------->3rd CC (after double orbital)------>double gas and reactored hellions, double ups, etc.
It's beyond greedy, it's more like gluttony at this stage; calculated in this case though, as Lucifron used the build to metagame Scarlett's passivity and her refusal to scout. Totally unsafe for ladder unless you're somehow blessed with a uniform pool of Zerg opponents who never scout and never try to play agressively.
On February 09 2013 17:35 dynwar7 wrote:
I want a build that can apply early aggression. I have chosen marauder/hellion, but it seems they always put spines, so my BO is countered.
I want a build that can apply early aggression. I have chosen marauder/hellion, but it seems they always put spines, so my BO is countered.
Hellions/Marauders is awful; if you want to play one-base pressure → expand play 2 rax.
I also want to know, do I need to use tanks? I have seen occasions where tanks just get wrekced by the imba zerglings. Most of the time tanks shoot 2 or so times before dying. Is it worth it? Is pure bio viable?
Yes, use Tanks. All Tank-free compositions have severe problems against certain Zerg compositions, e. g. MMM + BFH gets demolished by Zerglings/Banelings/Mutalisks or Roaches/Banelings. Pure bio is not totally unplayable but it's inferior to Marines/Tanks and usually relies on massively outplaying your opponent.
On February 09 2013 18:57 Sianos wrote:
Tanks are a really important part of tvz, since they allow you to push out on the map and hold positions. Since scouting the Zerg is really hard, (a) you always need to be present on the map. (b) In high numbers (5-6) tanks are really good against zerglings/banelings and infestors. However you need to spread them out and (c) don´t push on creep, since if you don´t do this the Zerg units are on top of your tanks in a few seconds. If you stay off creep and spread your tanks, you can get 1 or 2 more shots for a more cost effective battle.
Tanks are a really important part of tvz, since they allow you to push out on the map and hold positions. Since scouting the Zerg is really hard, (a) you always need to be present on the map. (b) In high numbers (5-6) tanks are really good against zerglings/banelings and infestors. However you need to spread them out and (c) don´t push on creep, since if you don´t do this the Zerg units are on top of your tanks in a few seconds. If you stay off creep and spread your tanks, you can get 1 or 2 more shots for a more cost effective battle.
(a) Depends on what Zerg is doing. For example against Zerglings/Banelings/Mutalisks you certainly don't want to be out on the map before a certain point, otherwise you may run into the 2/2 max timing and gets wiped out because you don't have the “city advantage”. A good example of this is Bogus/Innovation vs DRG, Akilon Flats, RO32: Bogus sieges outside of his third and is annihilated by DRG's charge because there are no buildings/Bunkers in the way to protect his army and compensate the inevitable supply disadvantage (as Zerg systematically max earlier), while he held in his base in the Akilon Flats RO16 game (and would have held in his base in the Cloud Kingdom RO32 game too had his Tanks not scored an ill-timed own goal). Against Roaches or Infestors you have more leeway to be on the map with Marines/Medivacs.
(b) 5-6 Tanks is precisely not a “high number,” and this is one of the problems post-Queen patch; you're in such a hurry to hit before Broodlords that it's uncommon to have more than 6-8 Tanks with your pre-Broodlords timing (or if you do you may lack Marines, e. g. Polt vs viOLet, Entombed Valley, IPL5), which weakens the push since there is quite a difference between 6 and 10 Tanks, but sadly you can't wait 90 extra seconds for two additional rounds of Factory production.
(c) Unfortunately fighting on creep is pretty much a given in most of the games. You have no choice because you can't afford to wait 1-2 minut(s) at the edge of the creep or Zerg gets Broodlords and instantly pushes you back. Depends on how fast Zerg is getting Broodlords though, sometimes you may have more time, especially if he max on Lair before, but generally you will end up fighting on creep regardless.
On February 09 2013 20:06 kollin wrote:
2. When you kill off the creep tumour, and I might be wrong about this, but I think the vision and speed effects are gone, even if the creep itself hasn't.
2. When you kill off the creep tumour, and I might be wrong about this, but I think the vision and speed effects are gone, even if the creep itself hasn't.
The vision from the Tumor is indeed gone, but Zerg units retain the bonus movement speed as long as there is creep.
Honestly, the 14 min push isn't very good anymore. Zergs can beat it fairly easily, and in its place terran have no answer
It's true that the push was quite weakened by the consequences of the Queen patch, but you have no other choice; of course you can't expect to reliably kill a competent Zerg with it unless you were massively ahead from early/midgame.
On February 09 2013 21:02 K.Roy wrote:
This is partially an answer, partially a question to higher level players as I'm not very good.
I feel like with tanks, you can't be aggressive with them until you have a large number (2-3 is not going to cut it). If you're trying to secure a position out on the map, then having just 2-3 tanks isn't going to do a whole lot, since you can be easily flanked or surrounded (you can't cover a whole lot of area with the tanks, and they can't protect each other), and you don't have enough for a contain. And in a straight up fight, your army won't be as strong as if you'd focused those resources into bio, medivacs, and upgrades. The zerg can easily crush your push with proper positioning, or just ignore the tanks because they pose less of a threat than if you'd gone straight bio.
So I guess this is why the 3 tank pushes which were so common at one point fell out of fashion. Since tanks are such a big early investment, they severely weaken your aggressive potential until you get a decent number (like 6+, which will happen at your 14 minute 2/2/1 push). So if you're going marine tank medivac, and feel safe enough to play aggessively in the midgame, perhaps you should delay tanks, and then start churning them out of 2-3 factories once you have 2/2 going and your 5th and 6th gasses are up and running?
Of course, if you feel like zerg is going for something more aggressive like a 1/1 speed roach (+ maybe hydras) timing, or a ling/bane/muta bust off two bases, then you'll probably want to rush tanks after your hellion banshee...
This is partially an answer, partially a question to higher level players as I'm not very good.
I feel like with tanks, you can't be aggressive with them until you have a large number (2-3 is not going to cut it). If you're trying to secure a position out on the map, then having just 2-3 tanks isn't going to do a whole lot, since you can be easily flanked or surrounded (you can't cover a whole lot of area with the tanks, and they can't protect each other), and you don't have enough for a contain. And in a straight up fight, your army won't be as strong as if you'd focused those resources into bio, medivacs, and upgrades. The zerg can easily crush your push with proper positioning, or just ignore the tanks because they pose less of a threat than if you'd gone straight bio.
So I guess this is why the 3 tank pushes which were so common at one point fell out of fashion. Since tanks are such a big early investment, they severely weaken your aggressive potential until you get a decent number (like 6+, which will happen at your 14 minute 2/2/1 push). So if you're going marine tank medivac, and feel safe enough to play aggessively in the midgame, perhaps you should delay tanks, and then start churning them out of 2-3 factories once you have 2/2 going and your 5th and 6th gasses are up and running?
Of course, if you feel like zerg is going for something more aggressive like a 1/1 speed roach (+ maybe hydras) timing, or a ling/bane/muta bust off two bases, then you'll probably want to rush tanks after your hellion banshee...
Correct. Tanks in small numbers in the open are weak, and if Zerg doesn't threaten anything they're usually delayed (depends on the build order though) in favor of an earlier Marines/Hellions/Medivacs initiative to pressure Zerg and slow creep spread.
Lucifron vs Monster, Entombed Valley, 2013 IPTL Season 1 MVP vs Karont3 is a good example of teching Tanks to hold a Speedbanes all-in (from memory there were 1-2 critical Tank shots on the clumped Banelings; I may be mistaken though).
On February 09 2013 21:23 llIH wrote:
It is possible to do a 2-base tank push like mvp did a couple of gsls back. It is basically a 1RaxFE into 3 rax + factory. Attack with 2 or3. Leave base when siege tech is half way. I don't recall the build order correctly though. And I know it requires good decision and micro. Im not sure if reactors where placed before researching the siege tech. But it goes with 3rax with 2reactor 1tl + factory 1tl.
It might also be bad with current metagame. haven't seen it in a long time.
It is possible to do a 2-base tank push like mvp did a couple of gsls back. It is basically a 1RaxFE into 3 rax + factory. Attack with 2 or3. Leave base when siege tech is half way. I don't recall the build order correctly though. And I know it requires good decision and micro. Im not sure if reactors where placed before researching the siege tech. But it goes with 3rax with 2reactor 1tl + factory 1tl.
It might also be bad with current metagame. haven't seen it in a long time.
Indeed it's completely outdated and would be abysmal now. It was already extinct long before the Queen patch as 1/1 Speedlings cleared it easily with Zerg having a much superior game afterwards.
On February 09 2013 21:30 darkphantom wrote:
when using bomber's 1 rax fe into 3 rax what time should my attack start, what time do i add extra 2 rax and time for starting 3rd
when using bomber's 1 rax fe into 3 rax what time should my attack start, what time do i add extra 2 rax and time for starting 3rd
What attack? You move out with your first two Medivacs to poke, just like with the regular version.
8'30 for extra Barracks or third, if you go 5 rax before third it depends on how much pressure you want to apply since you can always cut a unit cycle to expand, but generally 12' at the latest. Check this thread.
how can i spot observers? 
