EPTNormally I go for a +1 Medivac Timing, but I run into the first colusse.
Which build hit early and is not a commitment...
The Terran Help Me Thread - Page 418
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Snow948
Germany83 Posts
Normally I go for a +1 Medivac Timing, but I run into the first colusse. Which build hit early and is not a commitment... | ||
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U_G_L_Y
United States516 Posts
On December 27 2012 22:37 Snow948 wrote: How I can punish a greedy Protoss, when I go 1 Rax FE? Normally I go for a +1 Medivac Timing, but I run into the first colusse. Which build hit early and is not a commitment... Define greedy | ||
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Pyrox
Netherlands5 Posts
I am struggling to get into diamond because of zerg. I feel mostly helpless against zerg if they macro. I tend to macro aswell.. http://drop.sc/287804 in this replay he goes 3 base muta ling bling, and I die SO hard, its just said.. hope anyone can shine some light on it. what I am doing wrong, (ofcourse I make some macro and micro mistakes..) | ||
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geokilla
Canada8252 Posts
On December 27 2012 17:52 Roynalf wrote: Depends on map, but siege tank with siege mode should be enough with marine support I couldn't get that far... My seige mode didn't finish. | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On December 27 2012 01:56 Grobyc wrote: In regards to EMPing the vs the Colossus/Phoenix allin, you do that so that he just can't lift your marauders and ghosts? I mean your vikings aren't even going to be targeting the phoenix, so they shield loss doesnt really matter. Yes. On December 27 2012 04:18 Nick_54 wrote: What do you guys think of the ghost transition in tvz similar to what Gumiho has done in the past few tvzs. Say when it starts to get towards the end game where terran is getting up to 4+ bases vs a zerg with a hive tech army. Terran probably has 8 rax or so, 2 facs, and a port. The general strategy is to go up to 3+ ports and then get vikings and I guess ravens. Would it be worth it to go for ghosts with emp cloak and nukes instead of ravens? I guess the t has the tech labs for marauders already. Just kind of theorycrafting here and I want to know what the rest of terrans (especially some of the really good ones in here think). Nuke harass is a good option, problem is that you're usually trying not to die to the first BL push so you don't have enough time or resources to invest in Ghosts. You need to deal a certain amount of damage with your pre-BL timing (and/or your maneuvers afterwards if the map/creep allows you to do so) so you have time to set up your Ghost follow-up; if you're at a disadvantage you will not be able to defend his push on your fourth and your weakened army (because of the massive investment) will certainly not stand his. On December 27 2012 16:10 geokilla wrote: Somehow... I just lost to mass reapers. I scouted a 1 Rax into gas into 3 rax reaper build. I went 1 Rax FE... How the hell do you beat that? It pretty much one shot my marines and single tank that I had out. Yes I was supply blocked, but 3 extra marines wouldn't have helped considering he had like 5 reapers left.. Quite on the contrary, your fight would probably have been much better with those extra Marines, especially if they were behind your Tank. You don't need to do anything particular against mass Reapers; they're so slow to produce that you should be able to deal with them whether you went +2 rax or dual gas Factory Starport after expand. From your description it sounds like you went expand → 1-1-1? If so Marines behind your Tank(s) and a Medivac should be able to handle this. This, and you can't have everything at once: if you fast expand you can't have a strong push quickly after without sacrificing something in return (economy and/or technology). 1 rax FE → 4 rax Marine pressure (delaying gases and thus tech in favor of more army) is probably what would best fit your demand, but don't expect astronomic damage unless Protoss skipped several rounds of warp-ins and didn't bother to park a Stalker in front of your natural (or mismicroed). On December 27 2012 18:40 ThaSlayer wrote: Anyway, it turns out his expanding after all. (Should I stick to a standard 1 rax fe -> 3 rax build even when scouting double gas?) I used to do this but if Protoss goes Blink Stalker “all-in,” you're in trouble; it's good against proxies or 3g pressure though. On Daybreak you can rule out Blink Stalkers so it's OK, and the map layout allows you to sneak your squad of Marines if Protoss doesn't park a Stalker at the alternate path leading to his third. Usually if you 4 rax pressure on Daybreak you split your Marine squad in two, one coming from the third and the other coming from the Tower (so Protoss has to Force Field in two locations). It's a bit awkward since you may end up being blocked at one location and torn apart at the other, but, well, such is the fate of 4 rax pressure. By the way, be active on the map with your first Marines if you scout dual gas. He has only one Stalker for a while and he needs to take care of your scouting SCV if he cheeses, so you can scout possible proxies uncontested; and if the Stalker is on your side of the map, he's not guarding the entry to his natural or main allowing you to check if a Nexus went up, or see a second unit and hopefully some buildings if said second unit is a Sentry and/or he's not paying attention (hello rallied second Stalker politely taking off its hat to salute the hero SCV heading right for the Twilight Council somewhere in the dark). His Pylon placement did not look like cheese by the way, otherwise one of his two Pylons would probably have more Psi radius off-center. Don't take this as a sure tell of course, just an additional little clue. Your SCV must come back at his natural around 5' so you can see as soon as possible whether he went expand or not (in which case you have to wonder if he got dual gas for Sentries or quick tech such as DTs after expand). On December 27 2012 18:40 ThaSlayer wrote: First battle: I am up in upgrades, take my forth, and move to attack his 3rd, maxed. We trade pretty evenly here, 5k vs 6k ish. However, his 3rd is unscratched throughout the battle. Should I have targetted fire? What really matters in this fight is that you did not see his Templars. Whenever you play against Storm you have to know where his Templars are so you can adjust your army position; otherwise you may run into surprise Storms as you did (you needed to move backwards your whole army at 17'10 so you could EMP his clumped Templars with your Ghosts). Your composition was perfectly adequate so with a better engagement it would—should actually—have been game right there. Scans save lifes. On December 27 2012 18:40 ThaSlayer wrote: Both of us overproduce workers, myself at 80 Yes, you played Zerg actually. Instead of landing your CC on your fifth you should have made an OC with it, and get even more OCs so you could sacrifice ~30 SCVs later. Having a high income with 80+ SCVs is close to useless because of Terran's production, in most cases you will not even be able to use your savings if you lose a major engagement (and with your lesser army size, you increase the odds of losing such a major engagement). On December 27 2012 18:40 ThaSlayer wrote: 1) In most cases, I move out, knowing that I have either insufficent vikings or ghosts, but since I am maxed, I have no choice but to trade. No no no ! Caporal Joe may be a brave soldier and all, but if you no longer need his services by all means dispose of him and get a Ghost or a Viking instead. If you're stuck with a low-tech bio army with some kind of banking (or a high income) you must increase the efficiency of your army; if you fight with your low-tech or inadequate army hoping you will be able to remax on a better composition, you will likely end up not being able to remax at all since if you lose the fight too badly (and you will if Protoss has many Archons/Colossi while your Ghost/Viking count is too low) Protoss will trample upon you with Zealots warp-ins. Get rid of your excess of Marines/Marauders (depending on his composition) with suicidal raids or simply kill them yourself. Do this progressively of course. Don't even try to fight 5 Colossi with 4 Vikings, you know what will happen. Retreat, kill some of your SCVs (which is why you need more OCs) and/or basic infantry and then come back with ~17+ Vikings. Double Reactor Starport at least by lategame. On December 27 2012 18:40 ThaSlayer wrote: 2) While his HTs are always clumped, my ghosts always killed murdered by colos while trying to emp Yes, because you move your Ghosts towards the opponent's army instead of letting high Templars come to you. You stand in a ball instead of successively retreating small bits of your spread army (a Templar moves forward = you move backwards with your army while trying to Snipe/EMP him), resulting in your army bathing in Storms since your Ghosts died before getting the job done. | ||
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Kasu
United Kingdom345 Posts
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Snow948
Germany83 Posts
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KingDime
Canada750 Posts
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CurseDawg
Portugal31 Posts
On December 28 2012 08:31 KingDime wrote: As someone who is swapping from protoss to terran, I can slowly adjust with build orders in TvP and TvZ but TvT is kind of a different matchup altogether, dealing with positional tank play and scanning. What is a good way to start learning the TvT mu? To start you can go 1 rax fe into 3 rax with meds then start tank prodution, you can stop mostly all cheeses and agressive plays if micro properly and scout what your oponent did. Then its all about picking a good fight, drops. Best way to get better at it is by playing alot of games. s | ||
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ThaSlayer
707 Posts
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ditao1
4 Posts
Also, how DO I break the Siege Line? Banshees/Drops in base? Mass BC and say "HAHAHA... oh no, Vikings"? What do I do? | ||
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Whatson
United States5357 Posts
On December 28 2012 10:04 ditao1 wrote: How do I, as a Terran, deal with a Turtling Terran? I just can't break the Siege Line! Also, how DO I break the Siege Line? Banshees/Drops in base? Mass BC and say "HAHAHA... oh no, Vikings"? What do I do? Take the entire map, go for Nukes and air-dominance. MVP vs TOP GSL August Finals, and I think Polt vs Alive NASL S3 on Daybreak are pretty good games to learn from. | ||
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iAmJeffReY
United States4262 Posts
On December 28 2012 10:04 ditao1 wrote: How do I, as a Terran, deal with a Turtling Terran? I just can't break the Siege Line! Also, how DO I break the Siege Line? Banshees/Drops in base? Mass BC and say "HAHAHA... oh no, Vikings"? What do I do? If I see an overly defensive terran player, I take a very fast 3 base behind double ebay and at least 5 rax until 3rd is saturated. I see they're 'turtling' and I go for earlier game pressures involving tanks and bio against mech. It takes time for a mech player to get established, so constant pokes and prods as you exert map control with medivacs and take your addition bases lets you delay/hinder their set up of tank turret viking raven etc etc. I go for 2-3 fac and 5 rax very fast heavy tank push. If you can surprise them, as you have shown all bio against a mech player, you can catch them off guard and just bulldog down a portion of their defense and keep forcing them to reallocate tanks. When that happens, you mutliprong and keep dropping on top of tanks and poking. If he has viking/raven air advantage, use scans and move tanks back as you run out of scans. As a mech player he doesn't have anything that can really hinder your siege line from pulling back, since he will just be zoning with tanks as well. I hate HATE late game tvt air transitions, so I go for strong tank pushes after a bio opening. Works for me sometimes...more often than not really. Here's such an example against a 1200pt terran. Bio -> tank switch vs mech + viking/banshee/raven. http://drop.sc/265015 And a quick one just to show constant pressure against an obvious mech opening, lets you lean on some players early before it gets to that stage. http://drop.sc/288594 dif 1200pt terran Beyond that, the proper way? BC + viking + raven transition with mass expos and OCs to use mules for income and have little scv count. Nukes do well, banshees can surprisingly find holes sometimes to poke at tanks and scvs even in the late game. Just in my experience, at least. | ||
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ditao1
4 Posts
On December 28 2012 10:24 iAmJeffReY wrote: If I see an overly defensive terran player, I take a very fast 3 base behind double ebay and at least 5 rax until 3rd is saturated. I see they're 'turtling' and I go for earlier game pressures involving tanks and bio against mech. It takes time for a mech player to get established, so constant pokes and prods as you exert map control with medivacs and take your addition bases lets you delay/hinder their set up of tank turret viking raven etc etc. I go for 2-3 fac and 5 rax very fast heavy tank push. If you can surprise them, as you have shown all bio against a mech player, you can catch them off guard and just bulldog down a portion of their defense and keep forcing them to reallocate tanks. When that happens, you mutliprong and keep dropping on top of tanks and poking. If he has viking/raven air advantage, use scans and move tanks back as you run out of scans. As a mech player he doesn't have anything that can really hinder your siege line from pulling back, since he will just be zoning with tanks as well. I hate HATE late game tvt air transitions, so I go for strong tank pushes after a bio opening. Works for me sometimes...more often than not really. Here's such an example against a 1200pt terran. Bio -> tank switch vs mech + viking/banshee/raven. http://drop.sc/265015 And a quick one just to show constant pressure against an obvious mech opening, lets you lean on some players early before it gets to that stage. http://drop.sc/288594 dif 1200pt terran Beyond that, the proper way? BC + viking + raven transition with mass expos and OCs to use mules for income and have little scv count. Nukes do well, banshees can surprisingly find holes sometimes to poke at tanks and scvs even in the late game. Just in my experience, at least. Thank you, I WILL watch the replay, when this whole "Cannot DL Authentication Module" Brouhaha is solved. | ||
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DKR
United Kingdom622 Posts
On December 28 2012 10:29 ditao1 wrote: Thank you, I WILL watch the replay, when this whole "Cannot DL Authentication Module" Brouhaha is solved. Whilst a fast push obviously will help you in these situations it's worth bearing in mind that you need to consider what to do if that fails and you're stuck at the classic seige line stand off. Air dominance is what wins the day here. Day[9]'s Daily examining Thorzain's TvT is pretty good and the section linked is the relevent piece: | ||
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crumunch
United States54 Posts
1) Is the 1-1-1 all in still viable? If not, why isn't it anymore? 2) Does anyone know of either a page with a good build for the 1-1-1 all in, or a recent vod of a pro wining with it? Thanks so much if you can answer either of these! | ||
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Snowbear
Korea (South)1925 Posts
Whenever I do a 1rax CC into +2 rax + hellions (marauder+hellion+few marines) (polt build) it gets 1) shut down, or 2) the zerg holds, but is ahead in grades and gets back into the game. I tried bogus his build: CC first > 2 rax > 2 gas > hellion + marine + medivac, but it feels so weak to me. It's very vulnerable against midgame ling bling busts (tanks start pretty late, so low tankcount), and I feel that if the enemy holds the push, it's over. | ||
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Marathi
298 Posts
On December 29 2012 01:52 crumunch wrote: Hey, I have a question regarding TvP nowadays: 1) Is the 1-1-1 all in still viable? If not, why isn't it anymore? 2) Does anyone know of either a page with a good build for the 1-1-1 all in, or a recent vod of a pro wining with it? Thanks so much if you can answer either of these! On the first page of this thread in the 'What's the best allin for each race' spoiler it's listed there. A proxy fact and port, 3 hellion drop into 1/1/1. I use this build but I've only been using it recently and had mixed success, I've noticed I've been scouted going for it a few times which is a fault which is probably down to me picking commonly used proxy positions. I've also noticed that if I don't kill a considerable amount of workers it can be a struggle and also if the protoss is going for some kind of early game pressure it can be hard to defend with just 1 barracks w/ reactor and bunkers. Unfortunately I couldn't find the game listed on the first page, but if you want to try 1/1/1 in TvP still I think this is the way forward as the drop can be very distracting and do huge damage early on. | ||
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Lionbacker
United States47 Posts
TvZ I scout an early gas, one base, baneling bust. What is the proper build order and adjustment? Bunkers? How many of them? Units? How many of them? If I survive it, how do I transition into mid game and are there particular units I should be shooting for? Any help would be appreciated! I get thrown out of wack and don't know what to do. By the way, my normal opener is Polt's TvZ. Thank you again. | ||
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zmansman17
United States2567 Posts
On December 29 2012 01:52 crumunch wrote: Hey, I have a question regarding TvP nowadays: 1) Is the 1-1-1 all in still viable? If not, why isn't it anymore? 2) Does anyone know of either a page with a good build for the 1-1-1 all in, or a recent vod of a pro wining with it? Thanks so much if you can answer either of these! I certainly lost my fair share of TvTs to 1-1-1 at high master. If well-executed and well-disguised, it's a nice build to have in the repertoire. | ||
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